kshoe Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Conference dominos could fall in November Thursday, Sept. 11: Expect the Big East to make a final decision on its future by the first week in November. Various sources have confirmed that the choices are simple: stay together or split. The presidents are leaning toward staying together. Sources say Louisville, Marquette and DePaul are the first three on the list to go to the Big East with the fourth choice being Cincinnati, East Carolina, Central Florida or South Florida, to make a 16-team league. If Conference USA loses four members (all but Central Florida are from C-USA) then TCU could hold the fate of the rest of its members. If TCU were to go to the Mountain West or WAC then C-USA could crumble. If TCU stays, then C-USA would likely steal SMU, Tulsa and Rice from the WAC and possibly Marshall and Central Florida from the MAC (in football). The WAC is nervous it could get poached from C-USA and Mountain West (Fresno State and Hawaii). The problem for C-USA is what to do with Saint Louis and Charlotte. Sources say C-USA could nudge them to a welcoming Atlantic 10 (a better fit for the two non-football schools if DePaul and Marquette bolt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I don't think that going to the A10 would be that bad, especially if they could get rid of a couple of bottom feeders. Though I still think our alliance with DePaul, Marquette, and Charlotte is strong and we will end up somewhere as a group. It would be great if we could stay together and do the pilfering ourselves. Maybe add Tulsa, Creighton, Xavier and Dayton for an 8 team league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Everytime I run through the scenarios of where we will go if DePaul, Cincy, Marquette, and Louisville leave, I conclude that the A-10 is the next best thing. We have some historic rivalries with Xavier and Dayton, and schools like Temple and St. Joe's would make for good rivals in the future. At least we could align ourselves with Xavier and Dayton until things settle themselves out over the next five years. Katz is correct, outside of Charlotte SLU has nothing in common with the schools that would be left in CUSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 "Though I still think our alliance with DePaul, Marquette, and Charlotte is strong and we will end up somewhere as a group." There is no "alliance." SLU, MU, DePaul and Charlotte all hired the same person to basically lobby for them but that's it. There is no alliance, no package deal, nothing of the sort. If MU gets an invite to the Big East they'll go even if DePaul isn't also invited (I think Xavier is a better choice than DePaul). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 i just hope the marquette accounting office loves paying the travel bills for the women's field hockey and the golf teams, etc. again, i question what the hell is marquette thinking? now if it was the east west papal conference thing, that would be different. but imo, this reeks of red ink for the university. in all likelihood, i would be surprised if even the basketball program could break even on a straight jump to the big east let alone the whole athletic department. crazy stuff imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Travel to Southern Miss., South Florida, TCU, Tulane, etc. cannot be any cheaper than travel to the northeast. We would do the same if we were presented with Marquette's opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Billiken Law, Do you have some inside info ... that the three do not have some kind of alliance or desire to stay together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
courtside Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I Would have to agree with B-Law, I think Marquette would jump if offered to Big East. Maybe newly hired Jack Harbough, Jim's dad, and Tom Crean's father-in-law can shed some light on the Marquette athletic dept. DePaul...same as always, the talk is potential potential potential...Huge Market, and it is appealing to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 i do not think that slu would take the same big east dive. at least i honestly hope not. i dont travel much anymore like i did in my younger days p.k. (prior to kids), but it was always my experience when filling out expense reports that trips to the upper east coast were twice as expensive as anything in the midwest or south. plane trips cost more, hotels and meals were just ridiculous. but if you are telling me that the cost of travel in mississipi is as much as syracuse, boston or hartford for example, i wont argue seeings i have been out of that arena for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 skip, billiken law was very close to the marquette athletic department during his undergrad days there. if he says it, i wouldnt doubt it. i dont understand it, but i dont doubt his words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwyjibo Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Flights to hubs will generally be cheaper including the Northeast. That is why C-USA travel is cheaper because most teams are in hubs (I haven't really thought about this but it might be the most hubs of any conference). Meals, lodging are a different story. Boston (as are NY and Philly) is very expensive (statewide Massachusetts has the highest housing costs of any state). My (just finished) lunch: large burrito and fruit shake --$9.65. >that trips to the upper east coast were twice as expensive >as anything in the midwest or south. plane trips cost more, >hotels and meals were just ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 "There is no "alliance." SLU, MU, DePaul and Charlotte all hired the same person to basically lobby for them but that's it. There is no alliance, no package deal, nothing of the sort. If MU gets an invite to the Big East they'll go even if DePaul isn't also invited (I think Xavier is a better choice than DePaul)." I don't see it in the "simple" relationship you pose. When multiple parties hire the same advisor with the same objective (related objective), there is a potential conflict of interest. Such potential conflict is almost so likely in this scenario (absent one or more parties waiving the independence issue) that I believe the four schools are almost assured to be a package whether they stay or go. If the advisor represents Depaul and Marquette and he negotiates a deal for these schools to go the the Big East without SLU or Charlotte, doesn't this negotiation almost inherently compromise his fiduciary duty to SLU and Charlotte? I would certainly argue that a reasonably prudent person could be led to believe that he had breached his independence. Again, absent some waiver of independence, either Mr. Dempsy has put himself in a very untenable position, or the schools will likely move together in whatever happens. Since all I've read indicates that Mr. Dempsy is an extremely sharp person (and have no reason to think SLU would sign such waiver), I would have to believe the schools will act in concert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 That was my question ... Is there inside info ... or is it just an educated opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xujoe Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Travel to the east coast would be no worse than TCU or South Florida for Marquette. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I have no inside information that there is or is not a formal alliance -- anything more than a gentleman's agreement. The evidence I've seen is: 1. earlier statement by one or more of the schools that the four had formed some sort of agreement and 2. the revelation that Mr. Dempsy has been hired by the four schools to consult, advise, etc. Number 1, by itself, doesn't give any indication that there is any kind of binding agreement. The mere statement that the schools have an agreement doesn't seem to do anything. Now, factor in number 2. The four schools have hired an independent advisor-- the same advisor. The independent advisor hasn't sought to separate himself from any of the parties due to a potential conflict of interest. It is possible that he offerred to separate from one or more of the parties, but the parties agreed to accept his lack of independence in relation to their position. We simply don't have enough facts to determine the relationship. If we assume he is truly working on behalf of the four (together or independently), he would have competing interests. It is with this somewhat convoluted background that one could infer that there is more than a friendly handshake agreement. Why would Mr. Dempsy put himself in a position of compromise unless he's either been excused from any conflict or no conflict will come to pass (i.e., the schools will stay together). What happens, if tomorrow, Depaul and Marquette announce they are leaving for the BE. Then what-- SLU claims breach of duty against Mr. Dempsy-- what does this do? All it seems to do is put Mr. Dempsy in a compromising position, which is something I think he would avoid up front. These are merely my own rambling thoughts, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 He is a consultant, not a director, officer, accountant, attorney, manager, or employee. Does he really have any fiduciary liability to the parties contracting with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 It's also possible that his responsibilities/duties are limited in some way. For example, what if he were hired by each of the four schools to explore the possibilities of establishing a new conference with these four schools as the start. That could be where all of his efforts would be spent. However, if a new conference is not formed, then, possibly, each school might be on their own and he no longer has a role to play. The bottom line is that there certainly seems to be at least some sort of working relationship between the schools to attempt to stay together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 it is my hope that when the big east figures out what they want to do, then this consultant will be able to tell Marquette adn Depaul, if you opt to join fine, but if you do not,then SLU CHarlotte, Xavier, Dayton, St. joseph's, Georgetown and St. John's would be interested in forming a conference. etc....I do not think all the BBall schools in the Big east are on the same page..... When the ACC decided we want to go to 11 they could not just do they had hurdles to overcome, I think the big East hurdles are there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I think it depends on what his consulting agreement states, and what role he is to perform. As I noted, we don't have enough facts. However, I don't know that one can say completely that there is no potential conflict of interest. If he is in any way brokering anything, he could be in a tenuous position unless he's brokering a complete package. Of course, this is all my opinion-- nothing more or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I agree. That's really the only point I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 I am of the same opinion .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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