davidnark Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 http://www.musketeermadness.com/chatboard/...&PagePosition=1 The Xavier fans tend to view SLU as a good conference mate in the future. Hopefully, the Xavier administrators feel the same way. Good things could happen for SLU, Charlotte, DePaul, and Marquette if Xavier and Dayton are on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlee Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I still think the best bet for everyone is a conference with SLU, Charlotte, DePaul, Marquette, Xavier, Dayton and at least 2 others. Another one could be Creighton and add at least one more at least initially. I know the Big East sounds sexy but there are a lot of issues to be resolved that could make going there not all that desirable. I know Brad and Doug said a couple days ago they would like to stay in the CUSA, but as I have said before, I think CUSA will dissolve over time. Just some thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Charlotte really isn't a fit geographically for the conference you describe. Basketball has the travel dollars to deal with it but not for the other sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 jjray, while travel doesnt look sensible from first view, my guess is that any sort of "new" conference affiliation would include an east and west conference. the only way that depaul and marquette bite off on waiting for us, is if the new conference has enough "big names" to convince them it is a worthy gamble. thus, charlotte would probably fit in fine in the eastern conference. the idea scenario probably is one whereby the west papal division is st louis, depaul, marquette, dayton, xaiver and notre dame. the east would be st johns', providence, bc, georgetown, villanova and then maybe charlotte. while charlotte i know doesnt fit philosophically, the fact is they have aligned themselves with us and i hope we are fighting to include them or at least give them a chance to come along. of course it might take care of itself if the a-10 recruits them to replace us stealing dayton and xaiver. this all said, my guess is that the big east teams in this setup will have to take their run at trying to make that crazy 16 team conference work first before they realize they have created a monster. my hope is that the football teams of the big east finally decide they want a full 12 league for football schools and push the basketball schools away. otherwise, i am betting slu goes through a few years of the watered down cusa first before the real conference comes to fruition. now the real truth of the matter is we all really have no clue and this is all nothing more than pretend. the power holder in this whole affair is notre dame. they are the only one that can send off the final ripple effect imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 Agree with your comment Roy. The Big East will probably try the 16 team monster and we will have to wait for inevitable collapse to get a solid bball only (non-football) conference. When that happens, I would expect east and west conference which would make room for Charlotte. However, if this b-ball thing is only going to be 8 teams, then we don't have enough schools for 2 divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted September 9, 2003 Author Share Posted September 9, 2003 What do we do in the meanwhile (i.e., while we wait for the 16 team conference to collapse)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 imo david, it is in our best interests to stay where we are. let's say that cusa stays together in some format. if we leave to go independent or another conference, first we have to pay the exit fee. then if we join another conference, we would have to pay an entry fee. last, what conference would want us if the winds say that we only want to be there for 3-4 years while we wait for our brethern to tire of their fling with the coast? i say stay in cusa until all is ready. if we dont do that, i am afraid that any other move will be more permanent than we want. it always pays to be patient. had cusa waited to expand instead of taking on any tom richard harry that played football, they could have been sitting in a nice position to have picked up pitt and west virginia and cincy and louisville wouldnt be all hell bent on flying the coop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 >What do we do in the meanwhile (i.e., while we wait for the >16 team conference to collapse)? Admitedly, that is the $100,000 question and I have no answer. None of the options looks particularly promising. If Soderberg stays on board, we can keep the program afloat in CUSA for a few years as I am certain Marquette, DePaul and maybe Cincy would still schedule us even if they leave for greener pastures. Memphis will be stuck in CUSA also. If the Big East is able to hold on for more than a few years without a major reshuffling, then we are screwed. The slide shall have started and the Valley may be staring us in the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 I am getting the feeling XU and DU aren't all that happy with the current A-10 alignment-talk about your bottom feeders. Could it be Dempsey is setting the table for a conference with DU, XU, Creighton, SLU, Charlotte, Butler, Valpo, and one or two more. Granted this doesn't seem to fit for Charlotte, but they'd like it better than the current watered down A-10. Also, don't count out MU or DePaul totally. While playing the likes of 'Cuse, UConn, Pitt, UL, and UC is appealing, the rest of the BE is not that much an improvement over CUSA. Also, you have to believe someone with some intelligence at MU and DePaul are saying "are we going to go through all this crap again in two years?" I don't know about them, but I'd rather be master of my own domain than leave it to schools that have demonstrated, i.e. BC and 'Cuse, they'll jump ship the first time a better opportunity presents itself. Remember the ACC is still on the prowl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 the bigger question i would pose to marquette and depaul, "you have seen what the football first mentality did to conference usa. why put yourself through that again?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Law Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 why would MU go through with that? Because they'd be with 7 other non-football, like minded schools with strong traditions and gain even more access to the lucrative east coast market, where MU has a ton of alumni. If/when the Bigger East splits then MU has a conference already established that looks pretty damn good - much better than CUSA sans Louisville and Cincy. Plus, it would likely have Notre Dame and MU loves that ideal Xavier and Dayton are being proactive right now because they want out of the A-10 themselves. They were upset over the addition of Richmond to replace Va Tech and now they are seeing the conference tread water with the membership of bottom feeders Duquense, Fordham and Lasalle. SLU's best option is to get with Creighton, X, UD and St. Joe's and bring in a few other teams to form what, IMO, would be a upgrade from the current A-10 conference. For example, SLU, X, UD, St. Joe's, Creighton, Butler, Charlotte, Detroit. That's a nice conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 If we could fashion a new conference that looked like this, I would be pleased. Given the geographic disparity, I think we have to have east and west divisions to cut down on travel for non-basketball sports but could schedule without division for basketball only. Ten teams is the minimum for such a conference in my mind. East: St. Joe's Charlotte George Washington (so Steve can see the Bills once a year) Dayton Detroit West: Xavier SLU Creighton Butler Valpo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 i know you love marquette, but it still makes little sense to me from the big picture view. first off, travel will be attrocious. and remember, basketball has to pay the bills for all the sports at marquette. second, you will begin to see the same football crap that we were constantly baraged with in c-usa. the big east will still be worried about not having the needed 12 football schools to be a bcs qualified bowl team. thus, that means the monsterous 16 team conference might become a 20 team conference. now keeping that in mind, do you really think that will result in anything that makes any consistent sense? it will be horrible. what is probably going on is that marquette has already seen the writing on the wall. they want the big east basketball schools to join with the 4 c-usa schools and xaiver and dayton to form a real top basketball conference of 12 teams that will make sense from every angle. it will still allow the east coast exposure but not near as much travel. imo, this makes far more sense than anything big east connected that has been rumored at this point. if marquette wasnt thinking this, then why are they in on the combined efforts to hire dempsey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 this is what i am betting dempsey's employers have in mind: west slu depaul marquette xaiver dayton notre dame east charlotte georgetown st john's villanova providence seton hall fordham or st bonaventure if notre dame wont play, put charlotte in our division and take both of fordham and st bonnies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xujoe Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 You will not get Notre Dame. Also you do not want Fordham or St. Bonaventure under any circumstances. Richmond and Rhode Island are two teams with good recent success and who's administration is committed. The other two teams who should get consideration are Temple and Memphis. Perhaps replacing Seton Hall and/or Providence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xujoe Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 Billiken Roy, very good analysis. I hope you are right about Marquette seeing the writing on the wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauman Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I like your setup with minor modifications. 1) Drop Fordham and the Bonnies for 6 teams in the East. 2) Add either Creighton or Butler to the West for 6 teams-I agree with xujoe that ND probably will stay with the BE football playing schools but if not take them instead of Creighton or Butler. This seems to make so much sense that I casn't imagine why it wouldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 NOt sure this is an accurate read of his hiring, I hope it is but I think it is also possible that he is acting individually with each school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU8592 Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 It may be that Mr. Dempsey can only act in a combined effort role. Otherwise, his actions for one school may have some impact on his duty to another school for which he has a similar advising agreement. Of course, the schools could have waived any "independence" matters with respect to Mr. Dempsey, but I don't think such a waiver would be beneficial to SLU. Again, Mr. Dempsey would have a fiduciary obligation to use his best efforts for all of his clients (something he may not be able to do if he has separate agreements with the four schools mentioned). Assuming this to be the case, Mr. Dempsey's role for the four really reinforces a bond that is more of a friendly "we're sticking together" kind of thing. IMHO, this bodes well for SLU, insofar as sticking with Marquette, Depaul and Charlotte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 If he were acting independently for each school, wouldn't that lead to a conflict of interest pretty quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted September 10, 2003 Share Posted September 10, 2003 I think you make a good point about conflict of interest. I believe this board has downplayed the coalition from day one. I believe these 4 schools have common concerns which can be best served as a group. I'm looking for a new league with these 4 as founders, or at the very least the core of a division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 what's wrong with st bonnie and fordham? as to memphis, why would they join a basketball conference. and as to notre dame, my guess is that they still think their football program is above everyone else thus they do not need a conference for football. thus a midwest basketball centered conference mainly centered on private schools isnt without belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xujoe Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Basketball is much more important to Memphis. They can play football in the WAC. As for Fordham, they have done nothing since being in the A-10. They have the oldest arena in Div. 1. Their idea of committment was a $1million facelift on the building, whereas schools like St. Louis and Xavier have built brand new state of the art arenas. Bonnies could actually be ok, but Olean N. Y. is not exactly the media capital of America. Then there was the fiasco of their new welding major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 however, fordham is a jesuit school and they have occasional "visits" to the basketball hotbed. remember, it appears this conference ideology is based on schools that mostly are in the same boat so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I could care less whether a school is catholic or not. What I want are the best baketball only schools we can find that respect academics. Charlotte,Temple,Tulsa[not sure about football]Butler would be possible additions to our papal brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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