3star_recruit Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/display.php?message=926266 "Mizzou. Dave Armstrong just reported this. According to an FBI source, Clemons is apparently trying to extort money from MU over all the Bunge allegations. More details to come on 1340 AM" As usual, Mizzou supporters are theorizing that this scenario, if true, will exonerate the Tigers and Mizzou critics are theorizing that it will implicate the Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Extortion? I guess that means Mizzou or its boosters have something to hide. I expect the ax to eventually fall on Mizzou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Nah. Every major university has the FBI looking at its ex-basketball player's phone records from jail. It means nothing. Right estiger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 i agree with nark, he cant extort without some kind of leverage. this just gets juicer by the day. i hope someone is writing a book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSmetBilliken Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 Last week I was reading either Andy Katz or someone else from ESPN, and they wrote that if it weren't for the mess at Baylor, then Mizzou would be the outlaw program that everyone was talking about. I think i might agree with them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 The extortion plot is terrific for Mizzou. It will be hard for the NCAA to peg anything on the Tigers from the words of a suspected extortionist. I am inclined to think that the plot is a bogus set up to diminish the character (OK that's probably hard to do in this case) of Clemons. If Quin gets out of this one, I hope he cleans up his act. Don't take this the wrong way, because Quin has officialy passed Woolard on the BillikenButch "gives me the creeps" scale (no small feat!), but Quin in his defense could make the moral argument that he clothed a player that had no clothes, an act that runs contrary to (fill in the blank ...Bliss, Eustacy, Van Breda Koff antics of the past few months). Make no mistake, he can score some points on the recruiting trail with that kind of legend. Isn't that what SOME parents want out of the coach...to take care of their kids while they play ball. I can see him on the couch at one of the Sunday night sports show in a year reflecting on the saga "well I was just looking out for the kid, he needed extra support" that message will resonate in some areas. Now if he gets probation for doing it he will have 12 other pissed off kids, but that is the trade off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 I never thought of the extortion being good for Mizzou, but it makes a lot of sense. If Clemons sings, Mizzou will have some explaining to do. But if Clemons sings after he is painted even worse than he is (like he is JUST singing to get Money), then Mizzou can say "How can you EVER believe him! He is just after money!". Mizzou had to of cheated somewhere. You can't make THIS much stuff up. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 >The extortion plot is terrific for Mizzou. It will be hard >for the NCAA to peg anything on the Tigers from the words of >a suspected extortionist. Personally, I think it makes it easier for the NCAA to say, where there's smoke, there's fire and impose penalties with less than hard evidence. >I am inclined to think that the plot is a bogus set up to >diminish the character (OK that's probably hard to do in >this case) of Clemons. What PLOT? Please explain that one to me. Surely no Missouri official or booster would be so stupid as to make a bogus claim to the *FBI* to try to cover their own rears? If so, not only are they in trouble with the NCAA but the federal government, as well. >If Quin gets out of this one, I hope he cleans up his act. If he did anything so wrong as what we're getting hints of, he shouldn't be able to "get out of it." I'd prefer that he be innocent than get away with wrong-doing. If his act isn't already clean, he should be gone, period. >I can see him on the couch at one of the Sunday night sports >show in a year reflecting on the saga "well I was just >looking out for the kid, he needed extra support" that >message will resonate in some areas. > >Now if he gets probation for doing it he will have 12 other >pissed off kids, but that is the trade off. I don't really care about Snyder's giving Clemons some clothes. But if he brokered payments or academic fraud on Clemons's behalf, I have a problem with that. Mizzou won't get probation for the clothes thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 20, 2003 Share Posted August 20, 2003 steve, i would think that for any kind of extortion plot to work, there has to be more than clemons saying, "yep everything jessica said is true." he has to be able to "lead them to a body" more or less. again, i say if clemons is trying to get money, he knows he has the goods that will sell. it could be academic proof that he didnt take classes or tests, it could be credit receipts, it could be the names of good witnesses, etc. it wont take much. all tony coles gave up was hotel bills and a description of a bogus basketball class and now harrick is a time share salesman. one piece of paper to show he does indeed have credibility then the rest works as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 >steve, i would think that for any kind of extortion plot to >work, there has to be more than clemons saying, "yep >everything jessica said is true." he has to be able to >"lead them to a body" more or less. The problem is that Ricky Clemons is not that bright. Would he really know to cover those bases, since he "can get away with anything"? This is the same cat that messed up his own "work"-release lenient punishment (to take a blow-off "Acting for non-majors" summer course) and got himself locked behind *bars*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 21, 2003 Author Share Posted August 21, 2003 Ricky Clemons acquired 24 credits in 8 weeks. Producing a receipt or a material witness ought to be child's play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 little harder on programs that look out of control, after the Baylor tradgedy. I would think they will be taking the hard line with the coaches who are playing with the lives of these kids...... The fact that the investigation has led back to the Idaho JC and Okafor, leads me to believe that this is more than about just Clemons. At this point I do not buy the extortion story.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 ...just what effect the Baylor mess will have on how the NCAA Infractions Committee will conduct business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Perhaps you are right, but I think if a program is out of control, kids have money they are blowing on drugs, and one of the players becomes psychotic....as I think Dennehy's killer became there, I cannot help but wonder could this have been prevented. Psychosis can be precipitated by certain illicit drugs, like cocaine, methampetamine, and others.....If a program is ignoring drug tests, ignoring money on the side, etc.....there is blame. The NCAA needs to look at itself and see what changes can be made to prevent this from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estiger Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Boy I am impressed. Your such a principled, high-minded fan you can come over to a board with alot of anti-MU partisans, and kiss up to them by slamming MU, a prgram you supposedly support. I will continue to support Quin and his staff and give them the benefit of the doubt until the actual facts come out regarding these allegations. I admit that these stories become more demoralizing each day, and that I'm becoming more pessimistic about the state of things in the b-ball program. Still, I am more inclined to agree with thicks' assessment of the situation. If Quin and his staff were arranging cash payments, and having tutors write papers for Clemons, they should go down. Unlike you, I'm not inclined to jump to any conclusions until the thing plays itself out, and I'm certainly not going to come over here trying to convince these self-righteous anti-MU partisans about how pure my motives are. The bottom line on things now is that Clemons turned out to be a really bad seed, and it is entirely possible that MU's program could be severely damaged, and Quin's career ruined by him. It is easy to say now, with the benefit of hindsight, that MU should never have gotten mixed up with this kid. However, there were many schools interested in Mr. Clemons last spring, and not just "dirty" programs. I remember reading an article that appeared in the Seattle paper about Clemons shortly after he was charged with assaulting Ms. Bunge, and it contained several quotes from the coach at Gonzaga (a program that those on this board seem to think is one to be emulated)which confirmed that Gonzaga recruited Clemons heavily, and that they were disappointed that they didn't get him. He went on to say something along the lines of sometimes your blessed when you don't get the things you want. I believe Gonzaga is a private Jesuit institution with similar academic standards to those at SLU, yet its head coach was willing to take a shot on Clemons, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 Good post. It's much better than calling a guy names. Even if many anti-Mizzou fans here disagree with your points, they have to appreciate your carrying on the debate in a reasoned fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 es, my recollection of ricky's recruitment was that a lot of top schools initially chased, but once they realized his academic shortcomings, most ducked out of the race. the first clue for the tiger's coaches that something could (would) go amiss should have been his academics. the day he was kicked out of school instead of figuring a way to get his over one year of credits in 6 weeks, they should have backed off. thus, i fail to see how you can have any sympathy when it was the tiger staff that enabled him to come to tigerland with his "i can do anything" attitude in the first place. and let's not lose site of the fact that the clemons thing isnt the only issue swirling on the table. still have jet gate, act tests untaken, illegal recruiting contacts both by phone and in person, nearly every single top player on the tiger roster has their persona immersed in smoke. i dont see mutiger as sucking up to us. he has no other place to go to voice his emotions. he posts at tigerboard his true feelings, he gets suspended and his post gets mobbed and removed. not really much chance he can get fair debate there. dont worry, we know he is a tiger fan. he hasnt changed the color of his gold and black stripes yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I disagree with one statement ... Quin's career may be ruined by Clemens. If it turns out the allegations are even half correct, Clemens didn't have anything to do with it. If Quin would do it for him ... he would the next time also. If Quin did this Quin ruined his own career. Though I doubt this will ruin his career. If he can make a school money and win ... someone will give him a second chance, then a third and a fourth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillikenButch Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 First off the NCAA is a deliberative body. They will not sanction a member institution because of smoke. They need evidence. If the key source of evidence is tarnished, that evidence does not exist. If there is a paper trail, then the story is different. But remember that it was not MU who granted the 24 credit hours in 8 weeks. It seems to me that if there is punishment for that it would be a forfeit of the games he played..last year. I know you'd prefer he be innocent, but face it, he is walking on the very edge of ethical behavior. He has a very promising career, but he needs to watch his step. On an unrelated subject, I wonder what role the NCAA will have in 10 years given the ascendancy of the BCS. There really are two classes on university athletic programs in NCAA Div. 1. Do the big boys really want to keep up with some of the archaic rules used to even the playing field with smaler schools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted August 21, 2003 Share Posted August 21, 2003 I love this attitude: "...Quin's career ruined by him." If Quin's career is indeed ruined, he will have no one to blame but himself. I still hold out a faint hope that this all blows over, but that hope grows fainter with every new story. Apparently you have only been following my recent posts on this board. If you were here a year or two ago, you would have seen me defending Quin against the allegations that were hurled against him by some on this board. At this point, I can't defend him and I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I am especially troubled about what I perceive to be his slippery response to questions about any wrongdoing, i.e. I don't recall, I wasn't concious, I didn't know it was a violation, etc. He reminds me very much of Bill Clinton. Ambitious, smart, articulate, and slippery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 If Clemons really is trying to get money out of MU then this has offically turned into a major mess. The least that can happen is that Ricky makes claims that are not able to be verified and the program ends up looking soiled and continues down it current path - one that the MU faithful have not in the past been willing to embrace. The most that can happen is that Ricky's claims are verified and then the program goes on probation - Quinn is dumped, Alden's dumped, key recruits leave or change their mind about signing LOIs, and boosters fall silent/stop forking over money for the program. If this happens, it saves Baylor from being kicked out of the Big 12 since the conference will not want to kick out MU. Very interesting - can't wait to see what comes up next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBand Posted August 22, 2003 Share Posted August 22, 2003 It was Mizzou that accepted those credits in whole when they accepted them in the form of a jr college degree from the various summer instutions that Clemons attended. The claim that only three hours were accepted doesnt wash with me, since he needed the jr college degree to get into school, and those other 21 were required for that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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