davidnark Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/s...uri/6518566.htm Note the following: "Bunge spoke with an NCAA investigator Monday -- and although she would not discuss specifics of their conversation, Bunge detailed for The Star several incidents of what she believes was excessive academic help." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I think it's just terrible that the Kansas City Star is picking on Old Mizzou.Their sports writers must be KU grads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Interesting article; thanks for the link. If what this woman is saying is true, Missouri is in some SERIOUS trouble. It says anytime Ricky needed money, he would just stop by the Hearnes and come out with $100. That is absurd. Three meals out a day with one being at a nice restaurant?! My parents were fairly generous with supporting me through college, but there was absolutely no way I could eat out 5 times a week, let alone the 21 that she is alleging!! Ricky was getting a lot of money from somebody; the question is who is gonna take the fall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Check out a story by Katz about College Hoops suffering through a really bad offseason. He says, if Mizzery is found to have participated in RC's education scams, they could be in for major penalties. Closes with they have talent to make a final four run if they don't implode first. I'm betting Mighty Q wished he'd never heard of Ricky Clemons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 i just assumed after reading the article that the writer must either be related to vahe or trying to make points before his post dispatch interview. seriously, i hope the missouri fandom now sees that this isnt just a writer for the post picking on the tigers anymore. this is developing into a huge monster. what really strikes me is that clemons wasnt the main cog of this team. i.e. if clemons was getting all these perks, is it out of the realm of possibility that it gets worse? i mean what does a paulding, a rush, a mckinney etc get for being a tiger? the academic fraud thing is huge. ask clem haskins what it does for your coaching career to enable players as apparently mr clemons was "tutored". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 sorry but if RC fiasco is all true it is no wonder why Quin had the talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 i agree IF rc is the typical tiger recruit package, then it sure explains the ease missouri had in getting recruits to change their minds and head to columbia. i would hope that it isnt as blatant programwise as this one player. but who knows. maybe it is just a picture of this odom guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I'd hammer in the morning. I'd hammer in the evening all over boone county..... It's probably a sin to delight in the misfortunes of others but if the others are MU folks I think He'll forgive us. If RC wasn't pretty bright about his spending habits there should be a trail a mile wide for the NCAA to follow. Nail-em boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 one would think 21 restaurant visits per week would be pretty easy to collaborate and figure his spending habits there. same with the clothes and toys buying. add it up and ask the questions. where'd he get the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 For the NCAA to prove academic fraud, I would think one of the tutors for Ricky Clemons will have to step forward and admit to the fraud. Or Ricky Clemons will have to testify that he received improper academic help. Until that happens, I don't see where the NCAA will rule against Mizzou. With Clem Haskins and Minnesota, I believe one of the tutors who actually committed fraud was the one who turned Minnesota in. As for Georgia, it was an actual player who turned in Georgia. I find it hard to believe that Mizzou will receive major penalties based on Jessica's word alone. Somebody else with direct involvement with academic fraud or improper benefits will have to step forward and support her claims, especially when it comes to the money Clemons supposedly received. As she has stated, she never personally seen any of the money transactions between Clemons and the Mizzou staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 actually paid for any of the meals. I believe Jessica Bunge comes from a prominent family and could easily have paid for the meals. So what if Ricky and her went to a restaurant 21 times? How do you prove who paid for the meals, unless Ricky Clemons used a credit card? Due to her bitterness to Mizzou and their dealings with Clemons, it's easy to see that she might have an ax to grind with the school and could have lied about Ricky paying for the meals. She's already been quoted as saying that she was going to keep quiet until she became bitter about Mizzou's handling of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 We don't know where Ricky and Jessica ate out or how much the meals cost. But Boone County is a small place. About two weeks of investigation ought to turn up that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I say it again, Mr Crane the prosecurtor has more evidence linking Odom to the cash.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 it was reported in the kc star article that she said he always went out to eat and she didnt say she ever paid. you are correct that technically it would be hard to prove cash meals, but with that kind of frequency, my bets are they had "favorite" places to eat and that means he would be well known at those establishments and their typical meals and frequency of stopping in would be common knowledge by the staff. i.e. we begin to get away from the "he said she said" dilemna with others backing her side of the story or refuting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 again, aj, i agree a he said she said scenario wont play. but you can bet it will garner enough attention to warrant others being asked the questions. tutors will be questioned, restaurant and mall store managers, landlords, you are willing to bet all will cover for good ole missouri or that jessica is lying? and worse that that, like i said above, if the tigers were in fact doing any of this for ricky, i have to believe that the better players would have their hands out as well. oh this could get nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 "As she has stated, she never personally seen any of the money transactions between Clemons and the Mizzou staff." If she was lying about this whole ordeal to begin with, why would she tell the truth about this one detail? She lies about acedemic fraud, she lies about Ricky having money, she lies about him getting free clothes, then all of a sudden she tells the truth and says that she never actually saw the money exchanged? I don't think so. She doesn't have much, if anything to gain by lying. In fact, if she is lying, she is risking a lawsuit, loss of respect, and her career future. It just doesn't make any sense to make this whole thing up. And based on Ricky/Q's PROVEN behavior, it is not that hard to imagine this happening. Face it, Mizzou is in some trouble and who knows how far this is gonna go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Quin better hope RC was a good tipper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUTGR Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 1. I had been wondering what the NCAA's own standard of proof is. Someone on Tigerboard posted this off the NCAA's website: "The information upon which violations are found must be credible, persuasive and of a nature that reasonably prudent persons would rely upon in the conduct of serious affairs." This does not appear to be an incredibly high burden to me. Probably more than just Jessica Bunge's testimony, but if there is any corroborating evidence, I would imagine this standard would be met. So what could that evidence be? Testimony of others that RC spent an inordinate money around Columbia? Testimony regarding what type of clothes, possessions he had? Confession from a tutor? Maybe other students who witnessed some of the same things Bunge testified to? Columbia is a small town. I don't think it would be too hard to come up with corroborating evidence if this stuff occurred. Also, as much as I would like to dismiss Bunge as a liar, it's hard for me really to see her reasons for lying about misconduct on MU's part. And this is some strange stuff to just make up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 None of her claims were made under oath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 mu, i agree completely. i am amused by those that are quickly calling her a liar. first off, she comes from a pretty nice family that you can bet has "counselled her" on what is going on and what her future encounters with everyone will be. my guess is that she would know the trade off for lying. while she is obviously upset, she would be so stupid to be making this stuff up. i keep wondering what north carolina car dealer is in need of a ready made sales staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseugnekillib Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 aj, I know you are a big Missouri fan and don't mind a violation or two or three if it means more victories, but think about RC's future. If RC listens to the university friendly lawyer and keeps absolutely quiet, he then has to live with his guilt the rest of his life. On the other hand, if he truthfully answers every NCAA question, he gets his conviction and the guilt associated his NJCAA/NCAA violations behind him, he forever leaves Columbia with a clear mind and heart, and just possibly gets on with the rest of his life. But come to think about it, RC's future is no longer a concern of most MU bball fans as now it all about protecting the bball program. How sad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Let's say Ricky was witnessed spending an inordinate amount of money in Columbia. Who's to say that his girlfriend, Jessica Bunge, or even another girlfriend gave him that money? As for Jessica, she might be telling the truth. I'm definitely not calling her liar because I don't know her. However, I'm also not one to jump to conclusions without having all of the facts. As for her motive for possibly stating lies, it's simple. She's disappointed in Mizzou's handling of Clemons and wants revenge. I'm in agreement with BRoy and others that if there are other witnesses who come forward supporting Bunge's claim that Mizzou is probably toast, though. We'll just see how this plays out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 I would definitely not trade any amount of violations for victories. If Mizzou is sanctioned for major violations, I'd be the first to call for Quin's dismissal... As for Clemons, I certainly care about his future. Don't count me with most of the other MU loyalists. While I agree with Mizzou's dismissal of Clemons who received a second chance, I am hoping that he gets his life together and becomes a productive citizen on and off the court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 Yes I know that..and I am not a lawyer, but can she not be sued for defamation of character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted August 13, 2003 Share Posted August 13, 2003 good post aj, however i want to point out that if you are not familiar with the story here, and you are asked to believe the convicted felon sitting in jail or the young doctors daughter with no previous record, who you going to believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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