Butter 33 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Why is Brad waiting to offer Matt Shaw? He is local kid and could really help the Billikens with his workman-like attitude and basketball skill. Do you think Brad has not offered because no other large schools have? It amazes me SLU hasn't offered. I think he is the second best big man on the 2003 Eagles. Time is going by quickly. Looks like we will miss out on another local kid wanting to attend SLU. Wish I would have received as nice a welcome as Mrs. Douglas....oh well!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree. I have heard nothing except positive things about Matt (other than his height). From his work ethic, it appears he is just the type of person that Brad goes for. I wish we would offer him and not wait around for a "top rated" player to sign. Then we end up getting stiffed by the top player and Shaw signs with somebody else. That has happened to us too much lately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 mr ahearn, i dont think you ever approached this board with the politeness of mrs douglass. both under butter and pistol you always had more of a "you're going to regret it" attitude, whereas mrs douglass just told us that her son was not going to walk on at slu because he had better offers than to walk on at slu. as to shaw, first, i think most of us here that have seen matt shaw play agree with you completely that matt would be a nice billiken addition. however, it is now common knowledge that brad apparently wanted grimes as his first choice power forward rather than shaw. up until the no contact period, slu was still in the running for grimes. only after that no contact period started did grimes take slu off his list. i agree that now there is nothing holding slu back from making that offer. the only other rational thought on why matt has not been made an offer is that he is still not the top choice for the power forward scholarship. the name taj gray has popped up before, so maybe brad is holding out hope for him. the fact is that many "experts" have labeled taj the best juco player in the country for next year. if that is true and if slu is still in the running for him, i would probably wait on that as well. of course the billikens have been burned before by being a bridesmaid, so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 >Wish I would have received as nice a welcome as Mrs. >Douglas....oh well!!!!! I said, "Wecome to the board, Mr./Mrs. Ahearn," and then I said I wished Blake Ahearn going to SLU. It's just that I don't necessarily think it should be at the expense of Darren Clarke based on that one game. But then you started vehemently denying that you had any relationship to Blake, so I have no idea whether or not you're family to Blake as Douglass is to "Money." Regarding your take on Matt Shaw, I wholeheartedly agree (though I haven't seen him play), and I'm already on record in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 >>Why is Brad waiting to offer Matt Shaw? He is local kid and could really help the Billikens with his workman-like attitude and basketball skill.<< Although no poll has been taken, I believe the majority of the posters on this board are in favor of SLU immediately offering Matt Shaw. The consensus reason why he has not been offered is that Brad desires size at the 4 and 5 ... but Matt is 6'6 1/2". For me, it are the results and desire that count so no need to make a big deal over an inch or two one way or the other. If Matt is a 6'6 1/2" version of Donnie Dobbs or Jeff Harris, then SLU would do well to add him. In defense of Brad, what we do not know is who are the other players he has lines on for next year at PF ... Tag Gray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter 33 Posted July 26, 2003 Author Share Posted July 26, 2003 Thick, I was just making a sarcatic comment about my past greeting to the board. As I have stated before I have no affiliation with Ahearn.. but do not tell Roy Billiken becuase I thick he relishes calling me Mr. Ahearn! I just want SLU to have a Local flavor when possible. My whole point to my post is we (SLU no matter who the coach is) consistantly loose local players that could help us by looking elsewhere. For the reason I stated above SLU should have an assistant with local ties to keep local players home. Does anyone have an opinion on whether Brad would have offerd Sloan out of High School? My guess he would have the same misgivings about him as a player as Shaw. IMO this is too bad because Sloan has been a good player for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SluSignGuy Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Let's have a poll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Good idea, takes the guess work out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Please stop denying that you are connected to the Ahearn family. We know you are and it doesn't really matter. Mrs. Douglass was up front enough to acknowkledge her affiliation, maybe the attitude with which you have been greeted with here is because you have not. Lets get this straight though, does anyone know for a fact that we have not offered a schollie to Shaw? No one does, until Mrs. Shaw comes on the board saying SLU has not I think we have to beleive what little reports we have, that SLU is in the running for Shaw's services. That said while we do need a strong local recruiting base, Shaw may not fit into Coach Brad's plans because of his size. I don't think we should have Coach change his team around just because there is a good local player who could play at SLU. If he doesn't fit into the system we should not be going after him. All indications are that we are going after Matt Shaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I say offer Shaw and Gray, and take the first one to commit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 sloan was never considered a power forward in h.s. he also shot and scored with confidence in h.s. i think brad would have run up to chris and offered him a scholarship immediately. i do not think chris would have ever got to play power forward for brad though and hopefully would have had a better start offensively and still be a wing under brad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I have not seen Shaw play so I don't know if I would offer him or not. Somebody made a reference as to would Brad have offerred Sloan a scholorship? I love Sloan's effort .... but to get to the level that we are a consistent NCAA tourney team we need to upgrade our talent level from the equal of Sloan. Sloan is an average player on a very average team. He cannot create his own shot doesn't rebound particularly well and hesitates to shoot when he is open. Without Marque last years team wouldn't have won 10 games. I am not trying to put down Chris as I think he gets the absolute most out of his talent. We just need more skilled and athletic players. So if Matt is a sloan equal in the talent level ... I say do not offer as he can't possibly work harder or give more effort, which would mean he can be no better than Sloan. We are not going to be a consistent NCaa tourney team with that talent level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 torch said, "All indications are that we are going after Matt Shaw" i tend to agree. i dont know who else for the eagles the billikens would be watching unless liddell is in orlando as well. tommie has not been traveling with the eagles as much this summer though it seems and none of the reports we got mentioned liddell, so i am assuming he isnt there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 if taj gray is what has been written about him, comparing him to matt shaw is like comparing mark mcgwire and tino martinez. now if you think about that, do you really think gray is going to committ to the billikens in july? i dont. so you might as well say offer shaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalensdad2002 Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 >torch said, "All indications are that we are going after >Matt Shaw" > >i tend to agree. i dont know who else for the eagles the >billikens would be watching unless liddell is in orlando as >well. tommie has not been traveling with the eagles as much >this summer though it seems and none of the reports we got >mentioned liddell, so i am assuming he isnt there. Liddell departed East St Louis a day late for Orlando. He had to finish a summer class on the 23rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Is Taj Gray the only alternative? I'm not saying I don't think we should offer Shaw. I am saying that if he is not alot more athletic than Sloan ... do not offer him. If he is more athletic with more offensive talent than we probably should. I'm sorry but I think Sloan is an MVC quality player talent wise ... with great hustle and heart... IF we don't think we should be in the MVC .. than we can't sign that level of talent. As I said I have not seen Shaw play so ... It is impossible for me to say if we should or shouldn't sign him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I haven't seen any of these players and in a sense dependent upon what people are reporting. That said I have no problem evaluating other players right now before offering Shaw. Now is the time to see who else is out there. This is one of the big reasons I liked the hiring of Brad, I see him as a good talent evaluator especially for his system. He has had successful head coaching experience at different levels and should know the type of player he wans. If at the end of the summer Shaw is the best then offer him the ship. I also think that to compete in CUSA you need a larger than 6'6" power forward. So if Shaw does come to SLU, you don't stop recruiting 4s, you over recruit this position. If Shaw is a bench player/6 man for 4 years all the better--that means we improved at the position and the team overall is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box and Won Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 I guess my line of thinking is that we've missed out on the Taj Gray's of the world too many times. I think that players like Shaw are just what we need to start to build this program into something special; talented hard-working kids who will leave it all out on the floor every night. Big time recruits aren't going to be attracted to our program because of an NIT bid and an on-campus arena that is years away from completion, it's still a tough sell for Brad. I'd like to play it safe initially and continually increase the talent level each year instead of swinging for the fences right away. That having been said, I do trust Brad's judgement a lot more than Romar's, and I'm glad it's not my job to recruit players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 without chris sloan last year, i would venture to say that we would have lost at least 3 more games. i for one am glad we got the "mvc quality" player on the billikens. he is a deserved billiken and c-usa player. i believe he would only be better if he would have been allowed to play the wing all four years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Sloan had a miserable first 1 1/2 years at SLU, playing at the wing exclusively. It was only when he was moved to power forward that we got any production out of him at all and he finally blossomed last year. I attribute Sloan's ineffectiveness his first two seasons to 1) not having surgery on his bad shoulder before his college career started 2) totally losing confidence in his shot 1 month into his freshman year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 stloublu said: "I also think that to compete in CUSA you need a larger than 6'6" power forward." blu is correct. conference usa will feature inside players the likes of robert whaley, jason maxiell, scott merrit, will mcdonald, gabe kennedy, otis george, kendell dartez, ellis myles, Moussa Badiane, martin iti, and curtis withers, just to name a few of next year's conference inside players. all i believe are at least 6'8" and highly regarded skillwise. sorry, but c-usa is not the valley. typically a 6'6" inside player will not be on equal footing in this league. now i have been a shaw proponent. i think he could be an exception to the rule. but i am sure the fact we are talking about c-usa makes a huge difference in the thinking of the dimensions of an inside player for the billikens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 the things about sloan's game that stood out last year though were wing attributes. he hit threes, ran the break, finished some nice athletic drives and dunks. he could just as easily been shutting down 2's and 3's with his defensive prowess as he did with inside players. he is a special kid. chris would have survived and excelled eventually as a 3, but romar saw his guts and needed a power forward immediately, and sloan being a good soldier did the job. unfortunately, patience isnt a typical billiken fan virtue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 There's still a remote chance Shaw could will himself to grow another inch by November. It could happen - the kid has done everything else you can do to get a scholarship offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Sloan is a great kid who works verymhard, but lets not overestimate his talent level. He averaged 7.5 pts a game last year taking less than 6 shots a game on a team that badly needed offense. Yes he can run .. yes he can finish a break ... but he cannot create his own shot off the dribble or take it to the hole in a crowd as a 2 or a 3. As a 4 he cannot receive a pass down low and score consistently or get offensive rebounds and turn them into points. He averaged less than 4 boards a game and barely over 1 offensive rebound. Again ... I like Chris a lot ...but he is who he is and that is not a big time CUSA 4 or a 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 skip there is a big difference between "bigtime" and a credible c-usa player. bigtime, which you described is duane wade or reece gaines. those players turn into millionaires. credible can do the job and just lack some of the skills the bigtime players have, as you accurately described chris sloan. that doesnt necessarily mean that chris is not good enough to play wing in conference usa or that he should have been a valley player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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