BLIKNS Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 Okay so Cincinnati and Louisville are Big East bound.Now Marquette and DePaul heading there too.Now C-USA scrambles and has Tulane,SMU,TCU,Southern Miss,and Houston(west)(east)Memphis,UAB,USF,UCF,and East Carolina.Would there be room available for SLU in the west and Charlotte in the East?Could the Bills and Niners stay in C-USA? Thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 It is this type of "what if" that I answer with I would rather be in the MVC and take Memphis along than stay in that league. SLU would do much better in the MVC than with the sorry leftovers of CUSA if Cincinnati, Louisville, DePaul and Marquette were gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 We talk about being in a conference with schools that have simialr plans, similar programs and similar ideals. The conference you are describing is none of that and is worse than the current CUSA. The onyl reason I stay in CUSA (if I'm SLU) is with the very four schools you have leaving in this "what if." These are the schools we aligned with when we all ditched Dayton from the Great Midwest and formed CUSA. I agree with the thought that the MVC is better than this bunch of crap. Again, to me it comes down to what do we have to offer? You know my thoughts on the answer to that and I still fear we are the odd man out in any realignment scenario. I believe that the only hope we have of improving on the situation is to keep Maruqette and DePaul with us whatever we do, and add Dayton and Xavier into the fold along with some other like-minded institutions. Frankly, I'm betting on us getting screwed as the more likely result than anything happending in our favor right now. Money is the driving force in all this. Television is the money bearer and football is the big ticket item. Therefore, football is the money and our "football" is not the type they're looking for. Basketball can be a nice secondary but again it will come down to money. And I can't see non-football, East Coast schools alignin themselves to spend money by sending their teams to such a "far west" destination as St. Louis. I also see the same thought for Milwaukee. Chicago might be as far as they'll go evidenced by the fact that they have gone there consistently for Notre Dame to begin with. What if we are as good as we think we are, go to the Valley, and dominate it as such that the automatic bid is ours say, every seven out of ten years? That's being boastful and I don't think we could ever do that but still, what if? Winning like that would put us on the map to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 i have always said that with the exception of the catholic league or a hybrid merger of the big east/copnference usa, remaining in the remnants of c-usa would even be better than the valley or the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 once you get by creighton, sms and siu, i dont see any of the rest of the valley competing with much of any of c-usa. there is a reason the valley only gets two bids a year and we have always gotten at least 3 and it goes beyond our top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I disagree, it is the top teams in CUSA that make CUSA special. If Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette were out of the league, I wouldn't be very excited about CUSA. Wasn't this the first year that Cincinnati didn't win the regular season conference title. CUSA has been anchored by Huggins its whole existance with Marquette and Louisville finally rising to that level. In the MVC obviously Creighton has been on a great run and should continue. SMS & SIU have also been successful recently. Wichita State is another that will be very good this year and could get the title. Merfield at Evansville sounds like a very good coach, may take a year or so before he gets his players in place but Evansville should turn around. Indiana State had a nice run a couple years ago with 2 NCAAs and also sounds like they are turning it back around. Drake long been the doormat has brought new life in their program with Dr Tom Davis. I think the MVC overall is moving in the right direction and would much rather see SLU here than in a gutted CUSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 if you think the likes of wichita state, evansville and drake are more special than just about any of the c-usa teams, then we will have to agree to disagree. of course crean, pitino, calipari and huggins stand out. the media makes sure of that. however, williams at uab, finney at tulane, leito at depaul, soderberg at slu, lutz at charlotte, dougherty at tcu, and mccullom at houston are all coaches i would take before any of the coaches in the valley except altman. let's not lose sight of the fact that the saluki's just lost their greatest coach in history. is matt painter going to keep that going? who knows. the poor man's imitation (off the court only) of spoon at sms, barry hinson, has always been rumored to be on his last legs. i do like turgeon at wichita state as he seems to have things moving in the right direction there, but the fact he threw his name in the kansas job search tells you he has no intentions of staying there long term. no way even with cincy and louisville gone is the mvc a better conference. the better scenario is still at worst replacing louisville and cincy with the likes of dayton and creighton and you still have a superior overall conference than the mvc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 I agree with Roy on this one ... I think we could salvage CUSA by adding a couple of teams, rather than go to the MVC. Likely if CUSA wanted to add a couple of teams the MVC may lose at least one of them. But ... I really think we will keep our affiliation with Marquette and Depaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Please note that this is the first time I have ever used the word "Horizon." That is most certainly death as far as the program is concerned in my estimation. You have both (broy and skip) summarized various points I can agree with. I am all for staying with like-thinking schools and Marquette and DePaul are certainly numbers A and A1 on that list. I never liked ditching Dayton as we did. I always liked the old MCC contests between us and Xavier. One of the greatest games I can remember was us beating Bradlely and (I think) Hersey Hawkins at the old Kiel early in the 80's. These type matchups are alwasy better to me, than Houston, TCU, SoFla or SoMiss. Adding a Creighton to that would be awesome to me. We will never be UNC or Kansas or Kentucky. I thik we need to shoot to replicate a formula that a Creighton or a Gonzaga or a Butler has created for us mid- to lowhigh-majors to follow. Some have said how we (the University) is not suited in its academic requirements to "reload" like a UC or UNLV is with JUCOs. I have said we dont' have the tradition to make folks salivate at the prospect of either coming here or staying home and defending hometown Alma Mater U. Staying with some bastardized version of CUSA, when it loses the only four schools I like in it (M/UofL/UC/ DP) is idiotic. If the four mentioned do indeed go, and we don't go with them, hear me in the best Dickie V. voice in your head "It's screw you slu, bay-beeeeeeee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 First off ... this whole what if scenario is just that ... a what if. I don't think the powers at SLU will let that happen ... we are a school that is on the way up ... not on the way down and out. But since we are playing this what if game ... We are saying that the remnants of CUSA would not just remain as is. We would seek to replace the 4 teams with at least 2 others maybe even drop a couple of the current football bottom feeders and add 4 more. Say Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, and SIUC. That would be stronger than the current MVC with us added and would leave the MVC and A-10 scrambling. It would also be a pretty good Bball conference. But as I have said before ... I will be surprised if we split with Marquette and Depaul. People keep talking about the travel the big east would have to do to include SLU ... How about the travel that Marquette and DePaul would have to do to participate in the Big East. The better Scenario is the big east split into 2 leagues football and basketball ... with the basketball side having 2 divisions an east and a west. If that happens who would Depaul and Marquette rather have with them than us. Forget the Horizon ... it is not happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 skip .... this might be a little more serious than the usual "what if." The first dominoe has fallen .... Miami and VaTech to the ACC. The positioning and kabuki dances over 11 versus 12 teams for football playoff (payoff) are being run up the NCAA flagpole by Swofford and the rest of the ACC heirachy. Number 12 is going to happen in my book. To me, a real "what if" ---- one that lends itself to real daydreaming ---- is the time George Costanza figured how out to get Griffey, Bonds and Sosa all in the Yankee outfield for next to nothing. Huge differences in my book. I agreed with three-star above when he talked about the options of 1) the new Big East, 2) a reconfigured CUSA and then 3) moving to the Valley. It will come down to whatever hand we are dealt. I have to believe that Biondi et. al. are in there fighting for the good of the school. To me, that is moving on up. That is the new Big East. But sometimes, what you want is not what you get .... we've all been that kid on Christmas morning, missing something at least once. Make no bones about it ... I want SLU up and in with the big boys. That's the only way I will be happy with this program. I was in school when they tried to drop it to DII or lower. UNACCEPTABLE .. then and now! But we are not talking dropping down, only finding a new conference because something is going to happen. The five or so schools left in the Big East will be driven by that football dollar, they will make a move. Its not if, its when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted July 27, 2003 Share Posted July 27, 2003 Taj... I agree something will probably happen ... but the discussion I was commenting mostly on was All of Cinci, Louisville, DePaul, and Louisville leaving and SLU being stuck in a watered down CUSA. Which left us stuck with the options of the MVC or the horizon. I think our allignment with Marquette and DePaul is strong. My point was there are so many scenarios ... it is all a big what if... I don't believe we will be left in a watered down CUSA ...and then be unable to recruit some other schools ... or that we will be left moving to the MVC ... and yes that is stepping down ... A large step down. A lot of money is being put int a new arena ... money that will not let us end up in the MVC or the ... as was suggested as a posibility .. the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 No way does CUSA replace Louisville and Cincinnati with Creighton and Dayton. Are you paying attention to this conference realignment mess? Why would CUSA add 2 more basketball schools when this is all about football? You think USM, South Florida, ECU, TCU, Tulane, UAB, or Houston have any interst in adding basketball schools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Seinfeld references ;-) The conference issue is easily settled, if we end up in a worse conference than we are now, which would be any of the following; a depleted CUSA, MVC, or shudder to suggest the MAC, Mid-Con, or Horizon. we are totally screwed. A catholic league, big east/CUSA merger, or CUSA in it current form are the only good alternatives we have. Anything else would be a disaster, some more bearable than others but still disasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 they might not have a choice. that might be why they are talking about going to the west league. louisville and cincy called the shots all along. they screwed it up. maybe it is time for the basketball schools to call the shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 CUSA started as a basketball conference but has slowly been turning into a football conference. As long as this league exists (with the southern schools) there will never be another non-football school invited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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