dewey33 Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 It looks like Greece beat Croatia for 3rd....don't know details, because I am having problems with my computer connections. People have compared Ian and Kleiza on this board.... obviously they are both talented and Kleiza has had a great tournament with Ian left playing back-up to an NBA draft pick. Kleiza will probably make a big splash at Mizzou next year. Ian may or may not do so. However, long term I like the upside for SLU. If Kleiza has a good freshman year he is good as gone to the NBA. But I see Ian, even if he contributes alot his freshman year sticking around for a while because he doesn't have as colorful of an international resume. This may give us something to build around for a few years at SLU. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 As I've stated before, I look at Greece's finish in the World Juniors as a strong positive. I think Ian's ability to make the roster of an accomplished Greek team at such a young age bodes well for SLU. I also think you make a good point that Ian will probably contribute four years to SLU, while Kleiza may only spend one year at Mizzou. Experience does count in advancing far in the NCAAs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewey33 Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 CROATIA – GREECE 64 – 73 (Places 3-4) [20/7/2003] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Greece won the bronze medal in the World Championship for Junior Men, winning Croatia 73-64, after an ambivalent game, during which however, rarely trailed. It’s the second medal for Greece in the institution, after the gold medal won in Athens in 1995. A medal won after a very good performance, which satisfied the fans who watched the game. The Greeks were nervous in the game; however, they managed to find a way to cope, taking the ball under the basket, where they were better, thanks to superior body types. Schortsianitis in the first quarter and Vougioukas, who scored 18 points in the first half, did not face any problems loading the Croatian basket. Moreover, when the Greeks improved their defence in the second half, they built a 6 to 8 point margin and increased the difference to 9 points (58-49) at 27’. The Croatian team did not have any choice but to press and they did that in the fourth quarter, forcing the Greeks to bad choices and coming close to two (63-61 at 37’). The Greeks had not scored for 7 minutes and they finally did it with Vougioukas. Then they stole the ball and Perperoglou scored at 38’30’’ (67-61) and Vassiliadis put an end to the game scoring with 28 seconds to go, making 69-64. Free throws just made the final 73-64. The periods: 20-22, 42-43, 56-62, 64-73 Coaches’ quotes Josko Pulja (Croatia): I want to thank Greece for a great game and congratulate them for the bronze medal. Both teams know each other very well from previous games. We lost many defensive rebounds and that cost us the game. It’s a big success for us to have reached the semi finals and the 4th position. We played to very tough games against Slovenia and Turkey and I think we were very tired. I wish to thank the Greek Federation for an excellent organization. I also want to point out that many world basketball powers were left out of this tournament and that means a lot. In addition to that, three European teams made the first four and that’s great for the European basketball’s future. Finally, in regard to the statements made earlier by Mr. Babaoglu (the Turkish head coach), I want to say that it’s a shame to even imply that there was anything planned in the game of my team against the Greek teams. All of our games were derbies and very close score wise. It’s absurd to think that the Greeks knew we would score a three pointer from a ten meter distance and win the game…. Nikos Stavropoulos (Greece): Congratulations to Mr. Pulja for the 4th place. We have played four games up to now, both teams have won two games, however, we managed to win the most crucial one and win the bronze medal, which is great for a World Championship. I want to thank the Media, the fans for all their support, the Greek Federation for trusting me with this team and I would like to give all the credit to my technical staff, Costas Patavoukas, Thanassis Papadimitriou and Vaggelis Poulianitis for their invaluable help. As far as the game is concerned, I had to do something to give us to change the psychology and give us more potential and that’s why I used Ian Vougioukas. He was very good at previous games against Croatia and he didn’t let us down this time either. He stepped up and gave us what we needed to win. Finally, I also have to say that I am very sad about coach Babaoglu’s statements. It never crossed my mind to tell my players not to play well against Croatia, so that Turkey would be left out of the semi finals. It’s a crime to do that when you coach and you cannot expect to have the respect of your players after something like that… Players’ quotes Roko Ukic (Croatia): It was very tough for both teams to get motivated about tonight’s game, and I think that the team with the greatest desire to win actually did it. We had a lot of problems as a team to prepare for this tournament, since we had only 20 days to do so and the competition has been very strong with very good players and teams. We hoped to maybe be third or even make the final, but I think that all teams got the place they deserved. The positioning is an exact reflection of the reality. I also think that the Australians are the best team of the tournament. They’ve been together for three years and they play more like a club than a national team. I hope they win the gold. Ian Vougioukas (Greece): It was a very important game for us and winning the bronze medal is great in a World Championship. We knew our opponent very well, we knew their weaknesses and we attacked on them, which got us the result we wanted. I wish to thank my coach for trusting me with such a crucial game as the semi final and I am glad to have faced the challenge successfully. I hope to do well next year in the European Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 The English is a little broken in the translation but it looked like Ian had a great game. I wish a reporter had followed up with the Greek coach who was basically taking some credit for putting Ian into the line-up. Well why the hell wasn't he in there before if you knew he was so good? This relly give me some confidence that he might be a major contributor next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Make no mistake, this competition has a lot of excellent players who play hard and smart. The fact that Ian did so well against croatia--an excellent team is fantastic. Base upon this outing I wold suggest taht Ian may be our best big man by Feb. or March of next year after he gets his feet wet in the new system. If our new guards can defend and shoot the ball we could have a very nice team that will be fun to watch. KUDOS to the coaching staff--they seem to be able to find diamonds in the rough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 Ian has more than held his own in the warm-up tourney and now this game when he has been given real minutes. That's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewey33 Posted July 20, 2003 Author Share Posted July 20, 2003 Ian is # 14, these are from today... http://www.basket.gr/wcj2003/showimg_glr_full.asp?myId=144 http://www.basket.gr/wcj2003/showimg_glr_full.asp?myId=150 big dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 The box score is available at fiba.com. Ian finished with 20 points and 11 rebounds. He was 7 for 9 from the field and 6 for 9 from the line. He played 28 minutes and led his team in scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NashvilleBilliken Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Finally, something to be excited about. I know...its just one game, but we haven't had a whole lot to be excited about with this recruiting class. Not only did Ian lead his team in scoring in a big game, but he stepped it up a notch when he had to. His coach told him to make a difference this game and Ian accepted the challenge and rose to the occasion. I think Ian could be a major contributor this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 >The box score is available at fiba.com. Ian finished with >20 points and 11 rebounds. He was 7 for 9 from the field >and 6 for 9 from the line. He played 28 minutes and led his >team in scoring. This is great news. Maybe Frericks shall have some competition for the starting lineup after all??? Or might we occasionally go with Frericks at center and a 6'11" PW! I like dewey33's point as well that Kleiza is likely gone to the pros after a year if he makes an impact but Ian, with lesser exposure at SLU and Brad's way of sticking with experienced players, probably will be around for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 >>This is great news. Maybe Frericks shall have some competition for the starting lineup after all??? Or might we occasionally go with Frericks at center and a 6'11" PF! I would like to get excited about Ian Vouyoukas on the basis of his 20-point, 11-rebound outburst yesterday, as some of you have, but I can't without having seen the game. The box score indicates that 9 of his 11 rebounds were offensive and he shot 7 of 9 from the field and went to the line nine times. It looks to me like he got a lot of offensive putbacks and wasn't necessarily the focus of the offense. Yes, he had a good game. Yes, it's good to have a tall player who can grab offensive rebounds. But does he have great post moves? That we don't know yet. Again, I'm not saying that he's not a good pickup or that he won't be a good to very good center for the Billikens down the line. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't expect too much out of him this season, because he'll take his lumps as a freshman in Conference USA. The players he was competing with and against in the Junior Worlds Championship were his age. The players that he will compete with and against this season will be two to three years older and bigger and stronger. Furthermore, the physicality of the game will probably throw him off as it did Izik Ohanon last year. We're not going to see the "real" Ian Vouyoukas this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_arete Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 You're pessimistic this year. Perk up. Remember what Brad said when Ian was originally signed. He said that Ian would be more adapt to adjusting to the physical play of CUSA than Izik. Brad also had reservations about Izik's ability to adjust to the physical style of CUSA. I trust Brad's evaluation ability, so i think Ian will be fine physically. As for post moves, I doubt they're that refined, but if he can provide strength under the basket that's just what the Billikens need. While I'd seriously doubt that Ian will be CUSA Newcomer of the Year, I think he'll make a positive impact on the team this year. Moreso than Izik. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave71 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 So you're arguing that its better to recruit the less talented player? I find that absurd. What would you rather have 4 years of Drew Diener or 1 year of Larry Hughes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 The fair question is would you rather have a four-year player of the caliber of Marque Perry, Justin Love, etc. or a one-year player of the caliber of Larry Hughes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Nothing wrong with being cautious Thicks. We know, as Billikens fans, that getting over-hyped about this team is a danger. Izik has never played at the level of competition of Ian and weighed 40 pounds less coming in. Still, I shall not argue your cautious approach as it is the logical thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 it's a no brainer d. nark. you take the one year with larry. you got 22 wins, a second round ncaa and the by-product was getting a justin love who wanted to come to slu to play with larry. i think jim boeheim was very happy with melo's one and only year at the cuse. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I'd take 4 years of Kent Williams and Jermaine Dearman over one year of Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 i agree p diddy. i would take a larry hughes anytime. that was incredible fun to watch. we havent seen a player of that skill up close since or before in billikenland. it would have been nice to have had him more than one year, but i dont blame larry one bit for taking the money and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 there is a Tim Thomas, Eddie Griffin or Jamal Sampson. Those guys were 1 and done, caused friction on the team and didn't win anything significant. Personally I believe Travis Diener's are the perfect recruit because you know they are going to stay 4 years, grades aren't a problem, and they will contribute significantly. Kevin Lisch seems to fall in that camp. Now that being said, schools like Duke, Florida, and recently mizzou can afford to recruit top notch 1 or 2 year players as long as they bring on more in the following years. If Kleiza goes pro after his first year (if he's good enough to get playing time over AJ then wow) they've still got Kalen Grimes coming in next year. Not bad. I don't ever see SLU consistently recruiting enough big name recruits such that we don't care if some go pro early. Thus, we would be hurt much more by a kleiza going pro then a Mizzou would. If Brad signs guys like Shaw, Lisch, Polk, and Liddell we will compete every year for conference titles and sweet 16 births. We do not need 1 and done players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 If you never land a Larry Hughes but consistently land a group of players along the lines of Perry, Love, etc., then it doesn't take long to build a program along the lines of Xavier, Gonzaga, etc. This is a realistic goal for SLU. Landing a top 10 player every couple years is not a realistic goal for SLU. If I had to chose between 6-8 years of Gonzaga or Xavier's programs or one year SLU's program in 1997, I would take Gonzaga or Xavier's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p diddy Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 you guys forget. that one year of larry created a major buzz around the program. it's up to the coaching staff to capitalize. playing with larry is what brought j. love to st. louis. everybody wants to have those four year guys like we had with claggs, highmark, etc., but you no coach in their right mind would say no to a truly great player if he had the chance to get one. that would be just plain stupid. if there was no chance to get him fine. but could you imagine spoon saying. No larry, i don't want your mcdonald's all american talent at slu because you'll only be here one year. i need some four year guys like kent williams and jermaine dearman. like i said, we all want the program builders who stay four years and develop, but if the great one wants to come your way, you'd would be looked upon as a damn fool if you took a pass. you may hear some coaches talk that noise, but don't believe them. only a few can say it and really stand by it and those are the ones that get all americans on an assembly line. bad boyz for life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I admit to being a hypocrite because I'd take a top 20 player in a minute. But in hindsight I would rather have had Kent Williams and Jermaine Dearman than Larry Hughes. Of course Juan Dixon and Lonny Baxter would have been even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 when those of you use examples of jamal sampson or tim thomas, you are bringing forth examples of idiots that SHOULDNT have been 1 and done players. the players we are talking about are the likes of larry hughes, carmello anthony, or stephon marbury. players that actually carried their teams while at their respective colleges and were then appropriately lottery picks. as p diddy points out, yes, we need good four year players as well, but i would never wish a larry hughes away from the program. and who knows, we bring in an intentioned one year player, maybe he does stay an additional year or two. then you are really in position to do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 When we got Larry Hughes, I think most people, including the coaching staff really thought he'd be here for at least two years. Even though he only stayed one year, he raised the profile of the program. No question about it. It probably helped attract some players like Love, Jeffers and Perry. Unfortunately, Romar was unable to recruit players of this caliber and the program took a step back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 i have said before that romar's downfall recruiting wise is he was a good enough recruiter to get to the final list of top recruits. thus he wasted valuable time he could have been chasing the second tier players that might actually turn into better players. when he was finally given the final work on the likes of travis diener, jamal sampson, chuck hayes, jamal williams, darius miles, etc, he was then left to chase 3rd and 4th tier players. i still believe eventually romar would have hit on one of those "top recruits". then who knows what might have followed. i see the ideaology of what brad and his staff are doing as well. i have no problem with what they are trying to accomplish their way as well. since trying to hook the big fish all the time didnt work, then let's try finding the late bloomer or the hidden gems. it will take time and i hope everyone is patient. i for one am not expecting more than a couple of games over 500 max this year. anyone expecting more isnt being fair to our staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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