Grimes on SLU...

[Nate Latsch]

I talked to Kalen Grimes about his commitment to Missouri. He said his decision came down to Missouri, Kansas and Illinois and that "almost every major Division I school in the nation, except Duke" had offered him a scholarship.

Grimes said the distance from St. Louis to Columbia was one of his main reasons for picking the Tigers. I asked him if St. Louis University was one of the schools he considered.

"I think Coach Romar, when he was there, and coach Soderberg, they kind of knew I would go somewhere else," he said. "That’s a little bit too close for home. That’s a great program, but that didn’t fit what I was looking for.â€

- Nate

[Quality Is Job 1]

That, along with the "college experience" some posters discussed a couple of weeks ago, may explain why SLU has a little trouble attracting the top-notch area players who have the stars in their eyes.

As SLU fans, we always say, "Wouldn't it be great, you'll be the heroes in your own town," but many young men think that they want to go off on an odyssey and come home heroes.

Brad Soderberg is probably going to have to focus on players whose make-up compels them to stay at home with familiar things and people and on players from not-too-far away places who want to get away from home and think of SLU as a good place to have their "odyssey" to take back home.

In other words, unless SLU becomes one of the nation's best programs, many of the Metro area's young men won't dream of playing at SLU and SLU won't get all of the best local talent.

Thanks for the report, Nate.

[tseugnekillib]

Each high school senior is different. My three kids picked Illinois over SLU because SLU was too close to Belleville. While I was disappointed, it saved me a small fortune!

[davidlee]

To give a different spin. My two girls - one graduated last December with a PT degree and my other daughter will be a Junior PT - both went the SLU, which is 30 minutes from our house. About the only time either them come/came home is when they need to do laundry and that is/was usually on a Sunday afternoon. They found going to school in St. Louis great because of all the different things and places to go,i.e. Central West End, the Loop, Soulard, Laclede's Landing, etc. The campus is the best one we visited and they thoroughly enjoyed the campus life as SLU. SLU doesn't need to take a back seat to anyone.

They both wondered if they were going to school to close to home and found they had the best of two worlds - they were away from home yet could get home easily when they needed to.

[billiken_roy]

thicks said, "As SLU fans, we always say, "Wouldn't it be great, you'll be the heroes in your own town," but many young men think that they want to go off on an odyssey and come home heroes."

they will never come home heros. st louis is extremely parochial about their territory and their "hometown sons". i cant think of any returning heroes. yet the likes of bonner, claggett, highmark, hughes are always treated as though they are hall of famers. the likes of ryan robertson's and lafonso ellis's might as well stay away as they arent recognized a bit when returning and imo it is justified. good riddance.

[Schasz]

Not getting Grimes who many of us felt was a huge reach isn't the end of the world for Coach Soderberg or our Billikens. I'm certain that Coach will have some success and some failure in recruiting the Metro area. I've agreed with the notion that it is nice to have some good local kids on the Bills team. However, I am much more concerned that Coach gets the best kids to fit his system no matter where they reside. If he can consistently make that happen then I believe that Coach Soderberg will have a successful career at SLU.

[DeSmetBilliken]

I couldn't have put it any better than you just did, davidlee. For me, SLU offers the ideal opportunity because I can live on campus yet still be close to home. I can come home for a good meal when I get tired of dorm cafeteria food and I didn't have to spend a dime on laundry at SLU since I could take it all home each weekend. This year I didn't have a car on campus, but I could have one of my parents pick me up and bring me home so I could have my car to drive on weekends if I needed it.

For me, SLU was ideal. But to each his own.

[courtside]

Different strokes for different folks.

Some people like to stay home for school, others do not. Take the SLU soccer program for instance, using the example because it is a national player in soccer...for every Matt McKeon there are a few more Taylor Twellman's or Chris Klein's. etc...

I think each kid should do what they want...very very tough to begrudge an 18 year old for deciding to go away to school.

The only thing I do not like is parents pushing their kids to one school or another, for athletics or not, or to for just college without the athletics...obviously in the non-scholarship dept, cost is important, and parents play a role, but cost should never disuade a kid from going somewhere alone. Kids should decide the college of their choice, period.

I know I recognize Zo Martin, or Ellis, etc...or whomever, and do not hold them in less regard as Highmark, or Claggs, etc...different sure.

Grimes moves on to Mizzou, wash your hands of it and go after someone else...recruiting isn't easy...and he isn't the only fish in the sea.

[billiken_roy]

courtside said, "I know I recognize Zo Martin, or Ellis, etc...or whomever, and do not hold them in less regard as Highmark, or Claggs, etc...different sure."

i cannot disagree more than on this statement. i wouldnt walk across the street to give martin, ellis, robertson, etc a second thought. i would walk across the mississippi river to assist former billikens. imo, a true billiken fan will always think at least our billikens are more special.

judging by the ovations that the likes of claggett, bonner, etc have received when introduced at returning billiken games, i think the billiken fandom pretty much agrees. let martin, ellis, and robertson, etc head to lafeyette, south bend and lawrence for

there welcome backs. they wanted it that way, they can now deal with it. the same will be said about mckinney and grimes down the road as far as i am concerned. but at least they have walmart jobs waiting for them someday.

[courtside]

Then we disagree.

As long as a kid is a good kid, I hold no personal ill will that you seem to carry.

These are kids, 18 years old, and they want to go away to college.

There are also kids out there who want to go away to a SLU from somewhere else. How do you treat those kids?

You get some locals to stay and you lose some...you want some locals to stay, and you don't some others.

We shall disagree.

Peace

[Major Majerus]

Forget local talent for a minute; for guys like Drejah, and foreign players from Greece, Israel, and other major metropolitan areas, SLU is possibly a more attractive choice than MU or whomever is a few hundred miles from SL, but out in the boondocks. We don't have to apologize for our location; we have our own attractions, and a better program will enhance them.

[Quality Is Job 1]

If I see a basketball player, whether he went to SLU, Mizzou, or anywhere else, I treat him like a person. I ask him how he's doing, what he's up to, etc. I might discuss with him why he chose to go where he did, but I'n not going to hold a grudge over his head. As far as I'm concerned, we're neighbor who share roots in St. Louis.

I went away to college (at first), and so did most of the people I went to high school with (of those that went to college). When we meet around town or at reunions or games, we don't get mad because we didn't all go to SLU, Wash U., Fontbonne, etc. Where does it say that Saint Louis University can educate only St. Louisans and all St. Louisans must go to SLU? That's the logic you're espousing.

Let me be very clear. If SLU had to limit itself to St. Louis area basketball players, it would have to drop to Div. III. There aren't enough high-quality players (especially among centers and forwards) in St. Louis each year for SLU to field a Div. I program. On the flip side, SLU doesn't have enough scholarships to offer every player who aspires to play Div. I ball in St. Louis. The bottom line is that SLU must get some players from elsewhere and some area players have to go elsewhere.

I'm not saying that SLU should be honoring non-alumni area players at their games, but you seem to be making the ridiculous suggestion that SLU is the only place to encounter an area product.

[billiken_roy]

i am not going to go up to a ryan robertson for example and p!ss on his shoes. i just dont give him the attention he probably thinks he deserves because he went to kansas. and i will go out of my way for the loyalty and dedication that a former billiken put in. there is a difference.

you are correct that the player that left has every right to do so. but that doesnt give that player the right to be treated like a returning hero.

and i dont expect or want us to recruit only local players. some of my all-time favorite billikens like justin love, marque perry, maurice jeffers, david burns were not locals. however i would also treat them with the same reverence that i would treat those local former billikens. the point is my heros are billikens. not those that turned their backs on the billikens. they wanted to leave, good riddance.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>you are correct that the player that left has every right to

>do so. but that doesnt give that player the right to be

>treated like a returning hero.

>

>the point is my

>heros are billikens. not those that turned their backs on

>the billikens. they wanted to leave, good riddance.

I understand what you're saying. But what I was saying is that some young men want to go off and make their names and return like heroes. Just because that's what's in their minds doesn't mean it's what will happen. Secondly, if they don't think highly enough of SLU to feel compelled to play there, they certainly don't care that SLU and SLU fans won't recognize them when they come for their "heroes welcome." As far as they're concerned, St. Louis is much bigger than Saint Louis University and they can get plenty of love from their families, friends, and folks like the Missouri Athletics Club (or whatever it's called). Billikens fans must face the fact that St. Louis doesn't equal Saint Louis (University). Sure, we wish it would (from a basketball standpoint -- how many times have I cried for SLU to strive to be the CAPITAL OF ST. LOUIS AREA BASKETBALL), but right now it doesn't.

[cheeseman]

The truth of the matter is none of the kids that go to MU stay in Columbia so all they really can hang their hat on is the 4 years they are there. Since few graduate in 4 years, many of them never really wander back to a Columbia to finsh their degrees once they realize that they need it and that they will not be big NBA stars. Take Marque - he will go to Europe and be a star but when his playing days are over, he can always come back to St. Louis and people will find a home for him. Ryan R. will never really have that opportunity - his brother Troy will. Someone like Highmark is still visible in town and doing well but if he had gone to MU chances are things would be just a little different for him. I agree with Roy in that people remember and recognize those who stayed home - Claggs coaching BB is a result of his returning to St. Louis and capitalizing on his playing at SLU. Had he gone to Northern Iowa or some place else, he would probably would not have had the same chance. All that being said, some kids do for whatever the reason want to get further away from home so they need to do what they think is important at the time but hopefully they will keep the big picture in focus not just four years of a very long life. As far as Grimes is concerned, clearly he wanted to be away from St. Louis so good luck to him except when MU plays the Bills.

[Billiken Rich]

right roy? Give me a break.

[MUTGR]

I was going to stay out of this but you are way off base. You assume these MU kids don't go back to Columbia, but that's not true now and it never has been. Even under Norm, who had a very low graduation rate, kids have been coming back to Columbia for years to get their degrees later or for other reasons. I just read that Willie Smith, a star in the 70's under Norm, just returned to Columbia. So have, at various times, the likes of Marvin McCrary, Jon Sundvold, Lynn Hardy, Derrick Chievous, et al. Most recently Brian Grawer returned as assistant coach. Players have been returning for years either to finish up school or to start a career.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I doubted what cheeseman said about Mizzou players going back to Columbia, but I didn't have any evidence. You supplied it.

You do understand, of course, that to most of the posters here, SLU is "heaven" and Mizzou is "hell." Nothing you've said will change their minds.

[Schasz]

Wow MUTGR, your mention of Willie Smith brought back memories of the regional final game he played against Michigan where he nearly shot Mizzou into the Final Four. It was an incredible shooting performance.

[cheeseman]

MUTGR, I am not talking about people who are 40 or 50 years old coming back nor did I say that nobody ever went back to MU. What I said was that most probably do not because staying in Columbia is a limiting environment. Don't try to tell me that Columbia has all the same options available as a big city - that is nonsense and you know it. For those of you who think that I hate MU let me just say that both of children graduated from MU so I have no bias to the school or town. However, neither of them are making their life in Columbia - one is in St. Louis and the other is moving to Chicago.

[billiken_roy]

rich, kalen has a body that ANY team in the country would want on their team. however, rich if you are insinuating that kalen has performed at a level that he deserves the kudos he has gotten, he hasnt. he has time and time again disappeared in big games vs quality opponents.

when i saw him play this summer for the eagles, while he did not embarrass himself, there was no doubt in my mind that tyler hansborough and matt shaw were the best inside players on that eagles team. now the eagles team has the quality guards and coaches to insure that kalen got his opportunitites. so for those apologists that constantly want to blame kalen's underachievements on the poor coaching and guards he plays with at hazelwood, then explain why he still doesnt stand out performance wise for the eagles.

hopefully for kalen's sake, pretty q and the boys can bring out the potential that everyone has been waiting to see used the last 3 years. there is no doubt that arthur johnson has far exceeded any expectations anyone had for him 4 years ago. so kalen probably made a good choice in wanting to follow in those footsteps.

but if you want me to be upset because we didnt get kalen at slu, i really am not phased by the signing and actually am quite surprised that pretty q wanted him that badly considering he just signed the big kid from europe as a pf for next year and young will only be a sophomore next year as well.

now if we strike out with shaw and end up signing another inside stiff like we did this past year, yes, then i will be upset. but at this point kalen can trot on down highway 70 and i wish him well.

[cheeseman]

MUTGR, by the way Brian Grawer is getting his masters not finishing up his undergraduate degree. Also, if you had finished playing but had not graduated and was unsure if you wanted to invest the time to finish Columbia would not probably be your best place to be at - maybe if you wanted to just hang out but in a short time, all those you knew would be gone also. What happens is these players end up going back home and try to figure out what to do. It is more likely you will think about returning to school to finish if you are already living there rather than have to pick up and move somewhere else. As I said before in the context of my original post, a local kid from St. Louis would overall be better off staying at home but that being said, I understand why they decide to go some place else. We all have made decision when we were 18 that at 28 we would have done something different.

[Quality Is Job 1]

David Robinson is still in St. Louis. Last year he was an assistant coach at Ritter. Near the end of the school year, he visited us at Berkeley to enquire about getting on there as a coach under Gerald Jones (Dink), and I had a nice conversation with him (I apologize for not telling the story back then).

As a sidebar, Berkeley looks to be on the rise in area hoops. Melvin Robinson even told me Monday that he has a nephew who's looking to get to Berkeley to play for Jones. Melvin also told me that he'd like to get Damien into Berkeley, but it's up to the young man's mother, who doesn't want the boy to go to Vashon. For those who don't know, Jones came to Berkeley from Vashon, where he was an assistant under Floyd Irons for 10 years. Also, Berkeley is going to be moving into a brand new building (and, unfortunately, the school's name is supposed to change to McCluer South-Berkeley) this December, though I've yet to believe how it's possible we'll be able to move in the middle of the school year.

[MUTGR]

Cheeseman, I think you are trying to change the argument from "no one" goes back to Columbia when they are done playing for any reason to now comparing the respective benefits of St. Louis versus Columbia.

I did not say everyone went back to finish up their undergraduate degree, but many did, including Lynn Hardy, Lee Coward, Nathan Buntin, to name a few that I know of. Others came back for other reasons, like Jon Sundvold who started his own business in columbia when he was done playing basketball, like Grawer going back to coach and get a masters degree, like Jason Sutherland who went back to coach high school in another small town in mid-Missouri. Last I heard, Chievous was driving a ups truck or something, so there are all sorts of reasons, but the fact is players from MU do go back to Columbia, for various reasons, some to stay, some to get a degree and move on, others for various other reasons.

I am not trying to argue that Columbia offers more than St. Louis, because it doesn't. I think SLU has a legitimate selling point there. Hell, I live in St. Louis and prefer it to Columbia. But the point is your blanket statement was not factually correct.

[MUTGR]

I have only read about that performance, but it certainly lives on in Tiger lore.