Buy-In Game Comparison

[ACE]

I just did a quick look at a couple of other C-USA schools' schedules from last year as a point of comparison on the buy-in games.

Marquette had six!: Grambling, Elon, Appalachian State, Eastern Illinois, Texas-San Antonio, Coppin State

UC, who is known for playing a very challenging schedule had: Chattanooga, Florida A&M, Tennessee Tech... they also had Valpo and LaSalle, granted they are a little tougher, but I'm guessing UC doesn't owe them a road game.

The point is, when the schedules come out, I would venture to say that the majority of the top 75 teams in the country will have between 3-6 home game patsies. And if that's the case, it won't really adversely affect our RPI much since everybody is doing it.

[tseugnekillib]

If you have been a long time Billiken fan you should be used to some less than exciting "buy-game" names, thus next season's "buy-games" are not that big of a deal to me. I have been a season ticket holder since the Ekker days, so here are the "buy-games" that have been scheduled on my watch. I'm sure some older Billiken fans will remember a few of these gems!

Coach Ekker

1978-79 (10-17)

Roosevelt

Robert Morris

UMSL

Rockhurst

Wisconsin-Milwaukee

SIU-E

Northern Iowa (lost)

1979-80 (12-15)

Siena College

Lewis College

SIU-E

Roosevelt

Quincy

1980-81 (9-18)

William-Jewell

McKendree (lost)

Delaware St

Army

UMSL

1981-82 (6-21)

SIU-E

Pittsburg State

Coach Grawer

1982-83 (5-23)

St. Ambrose

CBC Memphis

SIU-E (lost)

UMSL (lost)

1983-84 (12-16)

William Penn College

CBC Memphis

St. Ambrose

Hardin-Simmons

1984-85 (13-15)

Blackburn

Greenville-Ill. College

Hardin-Simmons

William Penn

1985-86 (18-12)

William Penn

Cornell-Iowa

SW Texas State

1986-87 (25-10)

Missouri Baptist

UMSL

1987-88 (14-14)

Grambling (lost)

Chicago State

1988-89 (27-10)

Coppin State

UMKC

Brooklyn College

William Penn

1989-90 (21-12)

Tenn State

Murray State

1990-91 (19-14)

Western Illinois

1991-92 (5-23)

Montana State (lost)

N.C. A&T (Lost)

Chicago State

Coach Spoon

1992-93 (12-17)

Slippery Rock

Morgan State

Tenn State

Augustana

Chicago State

1993-94 (23-6)

Mercer College

Cornell NY

Chicago State

Augustana

Samford

1994-95 (23-8)

Cal State-Sacramento

Bethune-Cookman

Austin-Peay

Chicago State

Alcorn State

1995-96 (16-14)

Alcorn State

Sam Houston State

Chicago State

Murray State

Florida Atlantic

UT-Martin

1996-97 (11-18)

UALR

Alcorn State

Furman

Eastern Illinois

So. Utah

Maine (lost)

1997-98 (22-11)

Maryland-Eastern Shore

East Carolina

Ga. Southern

Valpo

1998-99 (15-16)

Arkansas State

Cal. St.-Fullerton

Coach Romar

1999-00 (19-14)

UNC-Asheville

La-Tech (lost)

SW Texas State

UMKC

2000-01 (17-14)

Illinois-Chicago

Idaho

2001-02 (17-14)

UALR (lost)

Denver

SEMO

Furman

Coach Soderberg

2002-03 (16-13)

UT-Martin (lost)

Texas Pan Am.

Grambling

[gister]

Thank you!!

I can't believe so many are getting so upset over this. These games have always been a part of the Bills schedule, as well as those of other major universities. Always have been, always will be. Why the big discussion about these games now, is beyond me. It may be that there is nothing else to talk about.

I agree that, as a season ticket holder, I would rather see other, high-profile, teams. However, especially with this team with so many newcomers, I feel that these games will be very beneficial. Any damage to the RPI, assuming they win, will be minimal. It will be really interesting to see this team come together during these games.

[billiken_roy]

my problem is that we dropped siu and added another slug game. i sure hope none of you advocating these games are complaining that the tigers wont play us. because it is the same thing.

second, while maybe it doesnt affect the comparison of rpi since most others do it as well, but just think if we didnt. if these four games were versus area neighbor teams instead with rpi's in the 100-200 range instead of this 250-320 range. those few rpi points we would gain would have been the difference likely last season to put us in a "gotta take the billikens" rpi range for the ncaa.

i admit we have always had these games. but i have always been an advocate not to play them and now that we are dumping siu in order to have an additional one it really p!sses me off.

[tseugnekillib]

broy, as yet, I haven't had a conversation with anyone in the West Pine gym as to why these particular "buy games" are on SLU's 2003-04 schedule. But I am confident that the coach and AD did not sit down and say...."let's get four "buy-games" that will really piss-off our declining fan base".

I did hear at one time that SLU was trying to shift the annual SMS and SIU-C games to one of them being a road game and one a home game

each year. In the recent past they have both been either homes games or road games.

Since we owed Georgia Tech a visit to repay their Feb 2002 game at Savvis, I'm guessing we dropped the SIU-C road game this year to complete the Georgia Tech contract. I expect SLU to be playing at SIU-C next year.

Knowing the very difficult December and C-USA parts of the schedule, and until I hear something from West Pine regarding the "buy-in" games, I personally don't see a significant problem.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>my problem is that we dropped siu and added another slug

>game.

>

>i admit we have always had these games. but i have always

>been an advocate not to play them and now that we are

>dumping siu in order to have an additional one it really

>p!sses me off.

I think we should find out why SLU didn't schedule SIU before making accusations that SLU is ducking the Salukis. I sent Ron Jacober a request in e-mail that he ask Doug Woolard why SLU didn't schedule SIU when he has him on the show tomorrow (and when the rivalry will resume).

Roy, you act like scheduling is something that comes easily and that every team SLU calls should be happy to open up a slot for the Billikens. Perhaps SIU decided not to schedule SLU this year. They have a new coach who may have a different scheduling philosophy; perhaps he wants to take the team to play a "guarantee" game against Kentucky in the slot SLU offered or they're going to be in an exempt tourney during the slot SLU had open for them.

[Taj79]

broy said "to put us in a "gotta take the billikens" rpi range for the ncaa." I owuld argue that if it comes down to rpi range for us versus someone else, and that someone else is named Butler, Dayton, SIU-C, Creighton, Valpo or maybe some others, we get just as much credit erased for being the "billikens" as we gain for having a respectable rpi.

Why? Someone in another thread said something like "what have you done for me lately" and I think that was in the power one sees in the likes of Marquette, Dayton and Xavier. Thye have more "power" because of what they've done lately. What have we done? Yes, we had an exciting run last year at the end but we all know that we needed to run the table to lock it up and we didn't do that. The NIT was an unexpected reward for that run. I would argue that none of us thought we'd get that far in the dark days of December and January. The same goes for our "salability" as far as being included in the up front discussions with a conference merger. What the heck have we done that merits being one of those considered at the top? If all we have to offer is the luck of our TV market, I'd say forget it. That's why I'm not on the upside end of many of these merger talks.

RPI is always going to justify the fifth and sixth palce teams of the big conference getting the lower at-large bids. The Villanova's, Seton Hall's, G-Towns, NC States and so on. They have to play the big boys of the world twice a year ... sometimes three in conference tourney play. Even if the RPI comes down to us .... look at Butler. They had a nice RPI the last two or three years and had to maintain that to get the consideration for only making it at large last year. What had they done lately? A lot ... it got them their bid, finally.

We have two or three years of proving to do. We need to establish a winning program. I think the buy-in games go a long way in doing that. As gister said and I have said ... six newcomers to this team means a lot of gelling early. While as a fan I want to see the 'Zona's of the world, as a billiken realist I don't see that being the greater need right now.

Now, if Brad wins and wins again next year, then we can seriously think of upgrade the buy-ins. Crawl. Walk. Run. This is the format you keep falling back into every time a program reloads with a new coach and now a new coach with six new players.

[cheeseman]

I am not an advocate of a cupcake schedule but I do believe that there is some value to getting a few wins under your belt to build confidence and to give you a little breathing room throughout the year. As has been pointed out on the board - the buy-in games are not going to have a major impact on the RPI. Look what Mizzou did with football a couple of years ago - they actually bought their way out of some games because they realized that their schedule was to tough and that they were going to get their brains beat in before conference play even started. The last thing we need is for SLU to be at 500 or below before conference plays starts. Until we get a steady stream of good recruits coming in - 3 years at least - we need to help the team out making their schedule more friendly. I have never been a fan of playing SIUC and SMS as much as we have - neither are buy-in games and both see us as some big deal to beat. I am not saying we should never play them, but we should play them more selectively and rotating them in over a 5 or 6 year period. The bad thing about the games is that neither of the teams travel well - in other words, they might bring a 1000 or 2000 to the game hear but attendance is not significantly better than normal games. Heck, Louisville and Memphis bring more fans to Savvis with them then either of these two. If you play other good teams from around the country in place of some of their games, then you get more fan interest - not so ho hum when we play SIUC and SMS - and you attract at least the same number of additional fans if not more. Look at the attendance when we play IU or MU or KU.

[billiken_roy]

i havent seen anyone here state they wish those four games were all versus top 10 teams. i know my thoughts have been use the 4 games to play area teams that might be in the 100-200 rpi range rather than the worst 4 teams in the country with no ties to the st louis region. there is a big difference. if you are proposing that the billikens couldnt win 3-4 games out of 4 matches out of a pool of siu, semo, eastern illinois, drake, umkc, central missouri, sms, western illinois, etc., then maybe this program isnt as good as i think it is.

[Schasz]

I don't have a huge problem with 4 buyin games on this year's schedule, as I agree with the sentiment of having a number of new players coming on board. It does appear that the SIUC game may have been excluded due to the scheduling of the 4 buyin games. I think that is a good game for both SLU and SIUC, so I hope this is just a one year deal. I am wondering when, and if, we might schedule our Jesuit friends to our West, Creighton. Seems to me, that it has been quite awhile since we played them.

[cheeseman]

Roy, I think we are saying the same thing - your last post just included a bunch of different teams that we usually do not play. My references were only about SIUC and SMS - I have no problem with some kind of a rotation schedule that includes all the regional teams as a part of it without always playing the same 2 teams. I also think if people would be willing to play two of these regional teams a year and then over a 10 year period all would be included at sometime then that works for me. I just do not want to simply play regional teams and give up the chance to play some other teams from around the country. Another factor is the size of the conference we end up in because this will have an impact on scheduling flexibility.

[billiken_roy]

as long as we are not playing 4 gimmee's with no regional affiliation anymore, i really dont care who we play those 4 games. imo, idealy they should be filled area teams. if they arent the same area teams each year so be it.

[Taj79]

I'll agree with you there broy .... that this program is NOT as good as you think it is.

I see your point on the locality of the buy-in games. It would probaly be a little better for the area types and the local flavor to have some of the schools you have mentioned. It would definitely beat Savannah State and some of those other dregs of directional schools that we end up with. Hell, you want directions, play SEMO. Of course, they all have to be DI at the least.

New item on agenda: Trump Taj Mahal, August 31, Blue Man Group/The Complex Tour. Saw them at Luxor. Got to do it again.

[Schasz]

We stayed at the very warm Luxor around Memorial Day week. We did not see Blue Man Group in Vegas, but have tix for the touring version here in Tampa...the show here was an immediate sellout at Performing Arts...Tampa's updated version of St Louis' Fox.