Vouyoukas

[3star_recruit]

Ian scored 23 in the opener, which Greece lost by 7 and scored 10 in the 2nd game, which Greece won by 17.

Of course I didn't see the game but I have a hard time believing a "Heinrich-clone" could score 23 points against top-flight international competition. It's not too late to back off that assumption, Roy.

http://www.basket.gr/wcj2003/

[davidnark]

I know it has only been two games, but from the box scores it appears that he is out-playing his NBA-draftee teammate. Roy, I suspect that you will be eating crow on this one.

[jjray]

Gives us reason for hope. Thanks for the info 3Star.

[thetorch]

I thought Roy was hoping that Bryce would be a heinrich clone? Maybe I didn't see that post.

Did anybody catch what the Mizzou star recruit was doing for Lithuania, I would love to see he and Ian square off, or Ian outplay him in this tourney.

[TheA_Bomb]

Brown played in some international tournaments before his time at SLU and I don't remember him scoring that much. Not sure which level he played at does anyone else remember?

[SluSignGuy]

If I recall correctly, I think it was Brazil.. Don't know the quality of competition though.

Steve

[kwyjibo]

Just a reminder that this is another warm-up tournament. High quality competition but an exhibition. One more warm-up against Argentina.

I think Ian V. performance has been outstanding so far but we need to wait and see how him and his team do in the real tournament. There is a very good chance they will face the U. S. some time in the later stages.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>I thought Roy was hoping that Bryce would be a heinrich

>clone? Maybe I didn't see that post.

Roy wasn't hoping that Bryce Husak or either of the other late signees (Tom Frericks and Ian Vouyoukas) was a "Chris Heinrich clone." What he said was that, based on their statistics and the caliber of recruiting "competition" SLU had for them, he wasn't impressed and feared that they would be nothing more than clones of Heinrich.

[dewey33]

Some familiar names on the rosters...

Kleiza - Mizzou (Lithuania)

Hollins - UCLA (USA)

Pittsnogle - WVU (USA)

a bunch of Big Ten guys

maybe this will give us an idea....

hmmmmmmmm

[billiken_roy]

very encouraging. i do have more optimism about him than the other two at this point. but i will still wait and see.

[billiken_roy]

to be fair, i did insinuate that all three of the spring signees were probably at best chris heinrich like. after the now much ballyhoo'd husak debut at the demetrius all-star game, i began to wish they would even be as good as heinrich. sounds like the greek kid might exceed my initial hopes.

[davidnark]

Frerick scored in double figures against Kenny Brown two years ago and had juco numbers that were very similar to Kenny's juco numbers. I don't expect a big overall drop-off from Kenny to Tom.

[billiken_roy]

davidnark said, "I don't expect a big overall drop-off from Kenny to Tom."

i pray nightly you are correct.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>Frerick scored in double figures against Kenny Brown two

>years ago and had juco numbers that were very similar to

>Kenny's juco numbers. I don't expect a big overall drop-off

>from Kenny to Tom.

Tom Frericks was a freshman at UAB in 2000-01. He redshirted 2001-02, then played as a juco sophomre last year (2002-03). Kenny Brown played at SLU in 2001-02 and 2002-03. Frericks got is 10-point career high against the Billikens, but it was Chris Heinrich, Matt Baniak, and Chris Braun, not Kenny Brown.

[davidnark]

I stand corrected, but I still think Tom will be a perfectly adequate replacement for Kenny Brown. Kenny was a good, but not great, D1 center. I also suspect Tom to be a good, but not great, D1 center.

Off the bench, I expect the combo of Ian and JJ to be a significant upgrade over Braun and Varner. Overall, our front court should be improved this season. The outside shooting and athleticsm in our backcourt should also be signficantly improved this season.

[Billiken Rich]

I'm with you Nark.

[Schasz]

David,

I like your enthuiasm for the 2003-04 Billikens. I might be reading into more than what you have posted, but I kind of think that you will be disappointed if the team isn't seriously looking at a NCAA Bid.

[billiken_roy]

dammit david, see what you got going now? we got out of town fans expecting an ncaa berth. ;-) j/k

schasz, did you get my e-mail near the end of last week?

[Schasz]

BRoy,

No, as I mentioned on the board a week or so ago, I am now a DSL customer. I still have your email address and I will send you my new one.

[billiken_roy]

please do and i will resend my note.

[davidnark]

I think the realists just needed some fresh bodies in this program. Five years of Deiner and Braun and a few years of Romar and Dollar really scarred the realists. I am really excited to see so many new faces around this program.

[Quality Is Job 1]

...I really do (I'd much rather be optimistic), but I just think that there are too many newcomers and not enough returning production.

Returners:

Chris Sloan (3 letters)

Josh Fisher (3 letters)

Anthony Drejaj (1 letter)

Izik Ohanon (1 letter)

¿Floyd McClain (1 letter)?

Losses:

Marque Perry (1st-team all-C-USA)

Kenny Brown (team leader in rebounds, top-notch defender)

Drew Diener (top three-point percentage)

Chris Braun

Newcomers:

Reggie Bryant (transfer)

Justin Johnson (redshirt)

Brandon Morris (juco transfer)

Tom Frericks (juco transfer)

Darren Clarke

Ian Vouyoukas

Bryce Husak (likely to redshirt)

I understand the logic that if the returners improve and the newcomers replace the production of the departing players, the team should improve. For one thing I don't think it works that easily, and for another I think there are just too many questions.

The main problem I envision is one of chemistry. This team's chemistry will be rather loose. There's not much continuity here. If Drejaj and Ohanon were going into their third season rather than their second, then I think we'd have something. Bryant MIGHT be able to replicate or surpass Perry's scoring totals, but will he be able to emulate Perry's defense, leadership, and ability to rise to the occasion in the clutch?

I think it will be a building year. The team will develop its chemistry and come together. It will lose some games against teams with inferior talent (but probably greater experience and chemistry). It will also win some games no one in his right mind would pick the Bills to win. In the end the team may be good enough as a team (not a collection of individuals) to win the C-USA Tournament, but we won't know until then. Bottom line: The players listed above aren't interchangeable components you can just plug in to make the whole thing work in an instant -- bugs have to be worked out and adaptations have to be made.

[davidnark]

Thicks,

So called "letters" mean very little in today's game. Syracuse won the national championship last season with minimal letters. SLU's best team in recent memory (1997) started several players without letters. I understand that players like Anthony and Hughes are not typical, but recent history suggests that a lot of talent goes farther than a lot of letters.

Sight unseen, I will take Reggie Bryant, Darren Clarke, Brandon Morris, and Ian (who collectively have zero letters at SLU) over Deiner or Braun (who collectively have 10 letters at SLU). Deiner's leading 3-point percentage last year was more of an indication of how bad our outside shooting was than how good Drew was. Perry was a great player, but his game was not without its weaknesses.

A stand by my belief that this year's team will be better than last year's team, and last year's team was one win away from the NCAA.

[Billikan]

It is encouraging to hear that Fredricks scored well against Kenny Brown because Kenny is one of the best post defenders that the Bills have ever had. If he continues to develop his ofensive skills I think he would really be a help to our team next year.

I think we can all see why the coach was talking about a possible redshirt year for Bryce. As we all know, it often takes longer for a seven footer to develop. With our Greek/Israel combination we might have two quick and talented big men who can score and run the court. If you add the toughness and tenacity of Sloan and the inside bulk of fredricks we might have a nice indside game next year with a lot of potential for the future. Kudos to the coaching staff!

[Quality Is Job 1]

>So called "letters" mean very little in today's game.

>Syracuse won the national championship last season with

>minimal letters. SLU's best team in recent memory (1997)

>started several players without letters. I understand that

>players like Anthony and Hughes are not typical, but recent

>history suggests that a lot of talent goes farther than a

>lot of letters.

David, I know you're bright enough to realize that teams like the 2003 Syracuse Orangemen are the exception, not the rule. I don't think the 1997-98 Billiken team is good to compare to the 2003-04 Billikens, either. As you said, players like Carmelo Anthony and Larry Hughes are rare commodities; who on the current Billikens roster will approach having the type of impact either of them had? Talent is important (and the Bills don't have an overwhelming abundance of talent), but experience ("lot of letters") is just as important, if not moreso. In *general*, it's teams that have more experience that do well in conference races and the NCAA Tournament. The best thing is to have is both experience and talent.

>Sight unseen, I will take Reggie Bryant, Darren Clarke,

>Brandon Morris, and Ian (who collectively have zero letters

>at SLU) over Deiner or Braun (who collectively have 10

>letters at SLU). Deiner's leading 3-point percentage last

>year was more of an indication of how bad our outside

>shooting was than how good Drew was. Perry was a great

>player, but his game was not without its weaknesses.

First of all, Drew Diener and Chris Braun combined for eight letters, not 10. Redshirting does not count as a letter. Second, your statement about Diener and the three-point shooting was unfair. The Billikens shot 33.9 percent from three-point range; Diener shot 40.2 percent from three-point range. I think SLU's three-point shooting was average, but Diener's percentage was good regardless of what we think of the team's percentage. Even if SLU had shot 37 percent or 29 percent from three-point range, if Diener's 40.2 percent led the team, he led the team. Third, I don't see how you can prefer a player you've never seen. Hey, why don't we just throw their uniforms on the court and rest assured they'll be better than Diener and Braun were last year! Sheesh. Even if they're more talented and athletically gifted than Diener and Braun, they make more mistakes or have less gung-ho attitudes than Diener and Brown. We just won't know until we see their performance. I will concede that Diener and Brown aren't much to replace in most aspects of their games, but it's not automatic.

>I stand by my belief that this year's team will be better

>than last year's team, and last year's team was one win away

>from the NCAA.

My "optimism" is much more cautious than yours. I'm a man from Missouri, and these Billikens will have to SHOW ME. I'd love nothing more than to say this December or January, "Man, Nark, I gotta hand it to you, you were right on with your summer analysis of this year's team." People were saying that about my summer analysis of last year's team (that they hoped I'd be right), but I was rather off base; perhaps I'll be off base this year, too.