Bernies Bits

[Billikenbooster]

* St. Louis U is hosting "Billiken Night" at the Royals- Cardinals game on Friday, June 20. Easy Ed Macauley will throw out the first pitch and prizes include basketballs signed by Ed. There's also a drawing that enables two winners to watch batting practice from the field. Tickets are $20, and those buying a ticket will also receive a complimentary ticket to SLU's home opener. For tickets call 314-977-2250.

St. Louis U. basketball coach Brad Soderberg and staff will be conducting a High School Shootout for 35 teams from Illinois, Kansas, outstate Missouri and local schools this Father's Day weekend. Soderberg's family -- wife Linda, daughter Daley, sons Kramer and Davis -- will be on campus all weekend to assist. As will Brad's mother-in-law, Irene Williams, who is visiting from Wisconsin

[Taj79]

Is it me or does anyone else find Bernie's latest "bit" to be somewhat condescending? The first part I'll address last but the second part ... to talk about an event and then say Soderberg's wife, kids and mommy are coming to help just seems to reinforce the "small time" image in my mind. We all talk about getting print space in the PD but I for one would argue that this type of print is not good. Was this posted out of context or what?

Secondly, for the first part, "EASY ED?" This program has so little tradition that we have to step back almost a half century to get any name recognition whatsoever? No offense to Mr. McCauley but c'mon .... EASY ED? I'm in my mid-forties and I barely know who EASY ED is. This just reaffirms my stance and opinion that we have nothing to show for almost 50 years of basketball experience. This is what I see when I see all of us talking about the new conferences, why in heavens name would anyone want to take us straight up at face value? Because all we can offer is "EASY ED!"

Brad has a lot of baggage to exorcise with this demon.

[Basketbill]

I would have loved to hear about which schools were signed up for this.....?Vashon, Ahlthoff, Borgia Desmet....???? Does anyone know or did anyone go??

[Quality Is Job 1]

Either you're being way too sensitive or you have a chip on your shoulder.

Bernie Miklasz typically doesn't do anything but pass along "bits" that were given to him. In the case of the first bit, someone from the Cardinals probably gave him that information. There's no question that the Cardinals should honor Ed Macauley. Just as St. Louis will never forget Stan Musial, it should never forget Macauley. It doesn't matter who came along afterward or who didn't come along.

In the case of the second bit, someone from Saint Louis University -- likely someone in Brad Soderberg's office -- passed along that information to Miklasz. Then your criticism is not of Miklasz, but of Coach Soderberg or the university. I applaud SLU for presenting the event as a family affair. Build the relationship with the community by emphasizing family.

In other words, I think it's just you.

[billiken_roy]

i wasnt there, but my understanding is that brad made sure that belleville althoff played ALL of their games on the main court and that a slu coach was always at those games.

the supposed competition besides slu is kansas, illinois, oklahoma and surprisingly siu. kevin will stay close to home.

[Taj79]

Okay .. one vote for me. Anyone else care to weigh in?

I reread it ..... and I still think that subtly, we are being called a "mom and pop" organization that hasn't done much more than squat for the last 50 years or so. It's like that old George Carlin argument "how come Curt Gowdy can say 'the batter has two balls on him' but he can't say "oooohhhhhh, that pitch hit him in the balls!"?

My argument is that you can't run with the big dogs when you still pee like a puppy. And this "bit" seems to suggest (albeit to me) that the local media (and I know its only one guy here) considers us as such. If that is the sentiment on the local level, then you can kiss the national level good bye. And when conferences are joining up to achieve things on a national scale, can anyone think they're going to take a second look at us?

Is this fatalistic? Maybe .... I still believe that I won't see SLU in a Sweet Sixteen, much less a Final Four, in my lifetime. And I'm still figuring on being around another 40 or so years. Brad has a huge challenge in front of him ... maybe this stokes the local fires for the talent staying home. I hope so. I still think, based on the flavor of this "bit", that we'd be better off left alone than being mentioned in this such a vein.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>I reread it ..... and I still think that subtly, we are

>being called a "mom and pop" organization that hasn't done

>much more than squat for the last 50 years or so.

"I reread it." You read and reread what? Billikenbooster's post, or Bernie Miklasz's column? If you just read what Billikenbooster nicely copied and pasted for us, then I can see why you might (might) get the wrong impression about Miklasz's intent and tone. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you read the Bernie Bits column and get the context and flavor.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/co...'+from+La+Russa

You'll see that the second paragraph in Billikenbooster's post actually came first, under "Reading Time, Five Minutes." The first paragraph of Billikenbooster's post came a couple of paragraphs later, under "The Nice Section." In "The Nice Section," Miklasz "advertises" upcoming events. In "Reading Time," Miklasz mentions things he thinks are noteworthy (but not worthy of a full column or news story) in seemingly random fashion. Still, these "bits" are usually from an outside source; they're not something he made phone calls to find out.

>Is this fatalistic? Maybe .... I still believe that I won't

>see SLU in a Sweet Sixteen, much less a Final Four, in my

>lifetime. And I'm still figuring on being around another 40

>or so years. Brad has a huge challenge in front of him ...

If this is how you really feel, then maybe the problem is you and SLU fans who think like you do more than it is how the local and national media portray the SLU program.

First of all, making the Sweet Sixteen isn't so improbable. All it requires is two wins in the NCAA Tournament. A good team can do it; much depends upon the team's draw. The 1998 Billikens squad could very well have made the Sweet Sixteen had one of two things happened: 1) they had played a little better during the non-conference regular season (particularly the San Juan Shootout -- or whatever exempt tourney they were in) or the C-USA Tournament and earned a better seed than No. 7 or 2) they had drawn someone other than Kentucky (which went on to win the Championship) in the second round. The 1995 Billikens squad could very well have made the Sweet Sixteen, also, if they had drawn a team other than Wake Forest (with Tim Duncan and Randolph Childress) in the second round. If anybody had known who Joe Smith was and/or what to do with him, then maybe the 1994 Billikens squad could have won two NCAA Tournament games. I know it didn't happen, but the Bills have been close enough to the Sweet Sixteen for me to expect it to happen one of these years (within the next five years -- or fewer).

Second, while it takes more talent and more luck to make the Final Four than the Sweet Sixteen, I think the 2004-05 Billikens might not be more than two players away from having the talent to do so. They'd have to be great players, sure, but you just never know until the time comes. Heck, sometimes it takes just one more player (of a Carmelo Anthony caliber).

Lastly, don't overestimate the differences among being a Final Four team, a Sweet Sixteen team, and a team that just gets left out of the Tournament. Marquette made the Final Four this past season (thanks to Dwayne Wade), but the Golden Eagles almost didn't make it to the Sweet Sixteen because Missouri darn near took them out. But Missouri almost didn't make it to the second round because Southern Illinois game the Tigers a mighty scare. Besides that, had Missouri not beaten Oklahoma in Columbia, they might have been left out of the Tournament.

I believe SLU can do it, but it doesn't help if the program's own fans make a Liliputian out of it.

[billiken_roy]

thicks is right. all it takes is one or two extraordinary players with a good set of role players. marquette is proof of that. heck, if hughes sticks around, can you imagine how much better the 2000 billikens might have been? one of the neat things of college basketball is how quickly a program can regenerate.

[Schasz]

I go along with Thicks on this one. I read what Bernie had to say about us in his Saturday Bits and I did not give it another thought as a shot at SLU. I think some of us need to read things with a little less discerning eyes. I was glad to see that we had this event and I hope that it helps us out on the recruiting front.

[slu72]

Taj, you are way over the top here. What's so wrong about a coach's wife being involved. I remember when Lute Olsen's wife died how all the commentators kept making remarks how much the players were going to miss her, i.e. their mom away from home mom. Does that make AU a mom and pop operation. Hell, all during the NCAA's we kept getting looks at Boheim's wife, and she is a looker. I'm in agreement with what it takes for a sweet 16 appearance, a couple of shining stars and a good supporting cast, a few breaks, and you're there. Hell we almost made it back in 94-95 against Wake. What did we lose by 5 or 6? If I didn't think it possible I would never visit this board again nor look for another billiken score in my lifetime. You gotta believe, Taj, you just gotta believe. As Jimmy V said never give up never give up, don't ever give up! You did this on purpose didn't you, just to stir up the pot?

[Taj79]

We lost Hughes and regenerated how many years later? I would argue that we still haven't.

One or two extraordinary players ... a bunch of role players ... look at what Marquette did. Right, but that's Marquette. Okay, okay .. maybe I get more excited when some of Polk's local friends join him and enroll at SLU. We shall see.

I might also point out, roy, that a few posts ago you yourself said you weren't impressed or excited about Brad's recruiting class. Does that mean you are waiting for that big basket of local talent to load up with Polk?

In today's age of watered-down college basketball (with the big talents lasting one or two years tops), it is extremely possible to take the road you described and drive into the Sixteen, Eight or even Four. But the fact remains that we are still Saint Louis University ..... little to no tradition, no history of NCAA consistency, no super-dee-doopeer recruits (sans one) and other things Liliputian.

I'll keep the lights on but without some sort of progress soon, it gets really tough.

When we get to that promised land, I fully expect thicks to remind me of my less-than-stellar beliefs.

[billiken_roy]

taj, while i wont cry if we get a couple more locals, i really couldnt care less if the players play for desmet and vashon or if they come from greece. i just want the best players we can get.

[Taj79]

What makes you think we are not already getting the best players we can get?

No tradition + limited recent success + a potential loss of conference + no appearances on national television + a coach who seems to be stressing the "wrong" side of the game (defense) = great reasons to go elsewhere.

Let me play devil's advocate. Maybe the Husaks and Frericks and Kenny Browns of the world are what we can best hope for. Hey, no great basketball players growing in Pennsylvania ever say "I'm going to Penn State for the basketball." Why? Maybe the very same reasons kids growing up in St. Louis don't talk about us the very same way.

Here's another concern of mine ..... Israel and Greece. Why is it that we are all of a sudden a great importer of Meditteranean talent? I hear all the great stuff about Izik but the juryis still out on him as far as I'm concerned. This year will be a great indicator of him as far as I'm concerned. And Voyoukas is still an unknown. I remember when we signed a seven-footer named Daivd King way way back. Kevin Williams (a player on that team) said he "ran the floor better than any 7-footer" he knew of. In hindsight, I'm guessing Kevin didn't know any 7-footers at all. King lasted maybe one year and was gone. Is Husak King all over again. I hope not but after almost 30 years of this program, one starts his expectations a little lower than what I would consider normal.

I'm not saying the local kids are the answer. Hughes was. So was Gray and Douglas and Claggett and Highmark. But we also had Caswell, Parker, Baniak, Tatum, Jones, Hudson, Trice and some others that were not. I'm just asking if we are realizing the full potential that we actually have. If not, what takes it higher?

The steps are there. I like Brad and he seems on a good track. The new arena might improve things. Only time will tell. And if we are doomed to repeat history, the last 30 or so years (sans Gray/Douglas/ Bonner era; the Clagg/Highmark era and one year of Larry Hughes) don't bode well to me. Sadly, my glass is half empty. To steal a certain phrase ..... show me.

[Basketbill]

regarding Local Kids they do not always jump up and down to go to SLU. Some of that is the Grass is Greener, and in some instances more odiferous.

Brad seems to think that the arena will not help much in recruiting, because players coming form the east like Drejaj get sold on the Saavis Center. However he thinks it will help tremendously with local recruits, who come and get to know west pine all too well. Now they will have a state of the art practice facility as well.

As for the foreign players, these players are more skilled than the US players, because AAU ball has not penetrated there yet. Give the Greek kid a chance. By the way does anyone know when his Greek team plays in the 20 and under tournament??

[billiken_roy]

taj, i dont dispute a single word you are saying. my point is that i am not optimistic that next year will surpass last year record wise..........yet. i want to see our unknown chris heinrich impersonators play first.

[3star_recruit]

If Brad ever signed a true Chris Heinrich clone - bricks for hands, poor footwork - I would be shocked. He likes fundamentally sound basketball players. I don't think he would have signed Kenny Brown either.

[davidnark]

Last summer I had a chance to sit down for an hour with Brad and dicuss his philosophy regarding player recruitment and development. One thing Brad explained to me is that he doesn't like one-dimensional players and players with a glaring weakness in their game. According to Brad, these type of players really limited a team's ability to compete and staff's options. Brad specifically cited Randy Pulley as an example of a player who, due to his poor outside shooting, limited the team's offensive options (this was shortly before Randy flunked out). Brad explained that his challenge going into last season was trying to win some games with a team loaded with a bunch of these players. These players included Kenny Brown.

I have not seen Bryce, Ian, or Tom play, so I have no first-hand knowledge of their skills. I assume none of the other posters here have seen any of them play. What I can assume based on my knowledge of Brad's philosophy, however, is that these three players are not as one-dimensional as Kenny Brown and Chris Braun. I also know that Bryant, Clarke, and Morris are not as one-dimensional as Drew Deiner. Perry was a great player and is a big loss, but even he had his weaknesses: he was an average passser and a below average outside shooter.

For these reasons, we should be much better this season than last.

[Schasz]

I suppose that I am a little surprised at all the doom and gloom that I perceive without one freakin practice being run let alone games played. Let's wait until we see what we have before we throw this year's squad under the bus. I'm with David, we've got to trust Brad's talent evaluation, as in a more limited time frame, I don't think that he let us down last year. While he did not recruit Mickey D AA's, and we don't have a top 10 class, let's at least give him and these kids a chance.

[billiken_roy]

i havent preached "gloom and doom". i have preached wait and see. big difference. think about this. last year our incoming players were not replacing any key components of the team. they were filling in gaps and replacing players that already had glaring weaknesses and really didnt factor as greatly in our success as our departing players did this year. my gosh, we returned the entire starting lineup. this year we have a boat load of players that will see the billiken at the savvis center for the first time and those newcomers are replacing our best two players from last year plus a couple of key long time role players.

if at least one of the incoming players was a reputed star in the making i might be a little more anxious. but the fact is that every single one of the players that will come in were not even "the featured attraction" at their last place of play.

now i realize that doesnt mean they wont be a hit as a billiken. we all know we have been hearing the "wait till you see reggie" song for a number of months now. but you all have to admit the folks in philadelphia didnt really cry when he left their fair city.

as to david's talk with coach brad. i have heard the same speech a number of times with coach brad. and i for one love the theory of a skilled basketball player over an athlete. i have no doubt that brad is indeed chasing recruits with that theory in mind and i ham sold that eventually brad will get the job done. but let's not lose sight of the fact that his desire and the truth of his results could end up being different. especially considering his relatively new appearance in the trenches as the head coach of the billikens. i am sure that lorenzo wanted chuck hayes more than ross varner. he wanted jamal sampson instead of kenny brown. he wanted travis deiner instead of randy pulley. etc. but sometimes that doesnt work out. and just the fact that we have a new coach doesnt mean we got the right guys with every recruit.

look, you all know i want the billikens to succeed as much as anyone, but i am with taj on this HUGE incoming relatively unknown class that is coming in to replace a lot of parts of the puzzle. they have to show me first. heck it might just take a couple of practices to convince me. god knows i sure want to say "that's a winner" as soon as there is an inkling of possibility. but the fact that from all indications it appears none of the spring signings were our real first choices and none of the spring signings come with banner headlines, big stat lines, or competition jealously, makes me apprehensive.

i continue to say, "i'll wait and see".

[Taj79]

I am not espousing doom and gloom here. I like the way the last team responded to Brad after that initial "adjustment" period. The stretch run was one of the most exciting times I can remember having with Billiken basketball. I am looking forward to the coming year.

But I look forward with caution as opposed to unbridled enthusiam. Some might call it Liliputian and if that is the case so be it. There is one, maybe two, starters returning to what even Brad has called a "limited" team. I count Sloan and a half of Fisher added to a half of Drejaj. As far as I can tell, all three are also what might be defined as "limited" as well. Not a good sign. I know roy sometimes asked if a certain poster has ever played a team sport and I for one can say that I have. So I am expecting another early season adjustment period that one can easily expect with six (Bryant, Clark, Morris, Frericks, Husak and Voyoukas) new roster additions coming in. The measuring stick will be how they react to that adversity.

Next season notwithstanding, I am looking down the line to where I would like the team to be. My expectations are to go to the NCAA more often than not so as our appearances become more of an expected occurrence as opposed to a freaking, once-a-decade celebration of a one-and-out game.

If the road to that involves recruiting classes like the current one, so be it. I don't mind a bunch of role players if they are consistent, grow on the court, win twice as many games as they lose, and take the program upward. I for one believe we have more upwards to go; because if this is our plateau its mediocre at best.

While some may chastise me for being doom and gloom, I find it ludicrous that some are talking about records and who's starting and other stuff like that. I also find it absurd with the talk about some of the proposed conferences coming out of all the ACC-generated league raiding. There are way too many unresolved issues out there out of my/our control that I'll defer my unbased opinions until more solid footing comes along.

As usual, I look forward to the coming year. I always do. I thank david and threestar for their responses as well as roy's and thicks'. This program is at a crucial juncture. I think with Brad and a new arena and the potential for a slam-bang local recruiting class, this is a little more crucial than what I have been associated with in the past. But I am getting real tired of crucial junctures that are well below my stated goal .... NCAAs more years than not.

Waiting to be shown .......

[3star_recruit]

last year our

>incoming players were not replacing any key components of

>the team. they were filling in gaps and replacing players

>that already had glaring weaknesses and really didnt factor

>as greatly in our success as our departing players did this

>year. my gosh, we returned the entire starting lineup.

The team was coming off a 15-16 season. Even if they would have finished 15-16 last season, I would have viewed it as an improvement because they played a tougher schedule. They did a little better than that.

>this year we have a boat load of players that will see the

>billiken at the savvis center for the first time and those

>newcomers are replacing our best two players from last year

>plus a couple of key long time role players.

Let's look at this objectively. Marque was a shooting guard without a three point shot. Kenny Brown was a football player trying to play basketball. Chris Braun was a 6-10 jumpshooter who averaged 3.4 ppg and 2.1 rpg last year. Drew Diener could not get his own shot. Drejaj was the only guy on the team with any point guard experience in high school.

Reggie Bryant is a good three point shooter who managed to average 9 ppg on a Big East team where he was the sixth man. Frericks had comparable numbers to Kenny at juco and reportedly has some post moves and a better shot. Morris is a true point guard. Darren Clarke can get his own shot. Vouyoukas reportedly has some post moves and plays for Greece's junior national team. JJ is the best frontcourt athlete we've had since Jamal Johnson.

but let's not lose

>sight of the fact that his desire and the truth of his

>results could end up being different.

Could be. But that's true with every coach.

>

>i continue to say, "i'll wait and see".

I would do that with any team, regardless of talent level. Charlotte and Tulane had more talent than we did last year but we had a better team. Go figure.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Taj, I agree with you here. I agree that Billikens fans should expect SLU to go to the NCAA Tournament more times than not (I guess that's at least six times in 10 years?), and I agree that our optimism for this season should be heavily guarded -- at least at this pre-natal juncture.

My bones of contention with you earlier in this thread were your interpretation of Bernie's Bits' making the SLU program look small-time and your notion that you'll probably never see SLU make the Sweet Sixteen (let alone the Final Four) within the next 40 years or so.

What I was referring to as "Lilliputian" was the never-in-40-years notion, not the fact that we shouldn't expect too much of the 2003-04 team just yet. I just think we should be sure what the heck we're fighting for.

[Mobile-iken]

To call our new big men Heinrich inpersenators" is EXTREMELY short sighted...Sorry Roy.

[billiken_roy]

why? they are all nearly 7 foot tall just like chris. fericks and husak are relatively wide bodied in the 250+ lb range just like chris. and they are all relatively unrecruited or heralded like chris was. they also sound like from the press clippings we have seen more the style of chris heinrich plodding play than the swift acrobatic style of hakim warrick of syracuse. i continue to expect the next set of chris heinrich's. but if one of the threee turn into hakim, i will be thrilled.

[davidnark]

None of these guys will be Hakim or Tim Duncan, but, based on coach's analysis, none of these guys will have the bad hands and footwork of Chris Heinrich or the bad shot and offensive moves of Kenny Brown. It is unfair to assume that every kid who is 6'11" and 250 lbs. has the poor hands of Chris Heinrich.

I would also wage good money that none of these players will have the limitations of Sekue or Ross Varner--two players Spoon and Romar brought in when we desparately needed front court help.