slu72 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Ok, it's summer, there's very little news recruiting or otherwise. I'm tired of projecting next year's starting line up, so let's do this. Given the fact that SLU is not being mentioned in a lot of the big time conference realignments, let's see who can come up with the best based on what may be available out there. A few rules: 1.) Marquette, Louisville, UC, and Memphis bolt for the big east which stays in tact. 2.) Dayton and XU stay in the A-10. 3.) SLU admin says no to valley and no to horizon So Father Biondi hires you as his new AD and says come up with a new conference that will attract fans. Here's my picks: Northern DIV 1.) SLU 2.) DePaul 3.) Creighton 4.) Butler 5.) Valpo 6.) Detroit Southern DIV 7.) Charlotte 8.) College of Charleston (have approval to build new 8,000 seat stadium and I'm selfish) 9.) Tulane 10.)Davidson 11.)Winthrop 12.)UNC-Wilmington Is this better than the valley? The horizon? Most of the schools have a bb legacy, all are non fb, similar academics, etc. I like it better than the Horizon or Valley. Schedules could be 2 times a year against div foes and 3 one games a year against out of division foes. That's 13 league games, which would leave us about 3 games to book big timers for our RPI. Which means we could maintain our traditional games against UC, UL, and Memphis or Marquette. I would like to see the three games every year against our original valley teams as fans think of these as rivals. Be interesting to see what you guys come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 No this is not better than the Valley. Our only hope if CUSA implodes is to stay hooked with Marquette and try to lure Dayton and Xavier to join us with DePaul along with 3 other good teams being left in the cold or who want to upgrade their situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 That would really be depressing if that happened. That Southern division in particular - ugh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 If all of your conditions occur, then I as AD would say we need a conference which will focus on basketball and soccer. The Ideal # of teams would be 8 or 9. I will go with 8 to start. With this number there would be 14 conference games, and all would make the conference tourney. Expansion to nine would be the goal. I would assume that if the above teams bolt, we will have similar agreements set up as we did with Dayton when they did not get to join the CUSA. Specifically a certain number of home and home games against Marquette, Cinci, Louisville and perhaps memphis. Thus our RPI will not be hurt initially. Now for the schools I will have to get back on that, I need to research, and also get back to real world work!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Why do you think it's a given that Marquette will jump to the Big East if offered? I for one think they would be better off in a new private school mid west league. While they may make more money initially in the big east they also have additional expenses in all of their other sports. Who do they play in soccer? What do their women do? A really good league for all sports can be created in the mid west. Lets get Larry Albus out there and get this thing going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I would rather align ourselves with the mid-american conference or maybe mo valley. Would the mo valley look as bad if they added us and depaul and dropped some of their really bad teams? This would be a fair conference SLU DePaul Butler Creighton Bradley Valpo Detroit Loyola Chi Charlotte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 This would be my list (although I think there no good alternatives if we cannot hook up in the same conference with Marquette, Xavier, and Dayton): SLU DePaul Butler Creighton Valpo Charlotte SIU Southwest Missouri State Detroit If this realignment goes down, I think the shakeout will first be dictated by football considerations and basketball only secondarily. Thus, I do not think Marquette has a strong chance of moving to the Big East as they are going to be looking to add football schools. Also, CUSA shall not be the only conference to which the Big East will look to raid. Thus, I think a basketball specific (read non-football) conference is likely to emerge on the east coast with an open question on whether a west division can be engrafted onto that conference that includes SLU (i.e., Marquette, DePaul, SLU, Dayton, Xavier, Butler). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I guess looking at your conference, I see no reason to have any of the southern schools. As a Creighton fan, I don't see where this is any better than the Valley and actually a lot worse when looking at travel expenses for the smaller sports. I know that most people on this board think the Valley is a big step back for SLU, but I disagree, I think the Valley is showing it can be a tough league. While it doesn't have the star power of CUSA with Cincinnati, Louisville and Marquette it is really not that far behind. Creighton just finished a top 25 season and SIU & SMS have recently been to the sweet sixteen. Just a quick look at what is going on with the Valley schools. Creighton--Dana Altman is still there, finished the season in the top 25, good recruiting class w/ Toliver & Blackwell from Missouri high schools. Will be opening a new arena in the fall. Also very good in soccer and baseball is a very important sport to consider in any new league. Wichita State--Very good returning team with a hot young coach in Turgeon. Have a good recruiting class coming in and are being looked at as the preseason favorites in the Valley by many. Also have a new arena opening this fall. Baseball is a very big sport and they are generally one of the powerhouses. SMS--A very important year for Hinson, hasn't maintained the momentum Alford had started. In the College World Series for baseball this year and have been very good in baseball for last few years. Also traditionally a very good Women's basketball team. Drake--Hired Dr. Tom Davis as coach, which makes them that much tougher, likes uptempo offense & defense. I expect Drake to be very tough in a few short years. Also very good in Women's basketball. Don't know much about other sports. Northern Iowa--This will be the 3rd year for McDermott as head coach. Every year this team seems to underachieve, but this is the year the coach should have most of his players in place, I expect some improvement. Don't know much about other sports except very good in wrestling and football but these sports are not part of the Valley. SIU--Webber is now at UofI and Williams and Dearman have graduated. New coach is a promoted assistant Painter who is very young--30's. Have a solid group returning, but hard to replace the two stars. Don't know much about their other sports also. Bradley--2nd year for Les, wants to play uptempo style. Have a big recruit in Sommerville and return some key players. Also have very good soccer team. Illinois State--Have a new coach Porter Moser, actually was successful at Ark Little Rock(school was very bad in bb before he got there) before coming to Ill State. May struggle some next year but look to improve in future. Former Missouri player Echols will be playing in January. Again do not know about other sports. Indiana State--Had a nice 3 year run couple years back and have fallen off since then. Waltman is a good coach if he can get the players will be a good team again. Did have freshman of year in Valley--Moss. Again know nothing about other sports, but does have that alumni named Larry Bird. Evansville--2nd year for Merfield, who came from Hampton College where he had a lot of success. Again likes uptempo style of play. There is a lot of roster turnover happening here, but team did compete well this past year. Two years ago school thought about dropping out of division 1 because of losing money, but stayed and recommitted by hiring the new coach. Again don't know about other sports. I see the Valley as a league where good young coaches come to gain experience and then move on, hopefully the league will improve to the point where they won't move on. Getting a coach like Davis in the league and keeping others like Altman and Turgeon around will improve the league as a whole. The Valley has gotten 2 or 3 NCAA bids the last few years and does have a couple sweet sixteens as well. I do think top to bottom it is getting better. I would like to see SLU and DePaul added to this if CUSA fell apart. I would like to see the Valley getting 3+ teams in the NCAAs each year and have multiple teams in the top 25. I think this can happen. While these schools don't have the same allure as playing Louisville, Cincinnati and Memphis I think SLU is a better fit in the Valley especially with those schools being partially driven by football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 i dont understand why conference usa cant be salvaged if the likes of cincy and louisville and east carolina or even memphis leave. unless the catholic league truly comes to be with the basketball schools from the big east and a-10, imo the best second alternative is to take the rest of c-usa and add the likes of dayton, creighton, and xaiver to replace cincy and louisville and the third team. imo, if the domino game actually starts to happen, my bets are on the big east and conference usa joining forces to make a football and a basketball conference. no need to start picking up the middle of the road teams from the horizon or the ohio valley yet. from what i understand, right now the acc is deadlocked again on the approval process and nothing is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidlee Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 willie I agree with you about Marquette; I would be surprised it Marquette would go to the Big East alone. They would be an outsider. Right now they are a hot item with the Final 4, but that isn't going to happen every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 DePaul SLU Creighton Butler Detroit Charlotte This is where I run dry I do not like Valpo, Ill Chicago or Loyola Chicago in this Group. I think it would be best to have One team in each city or Metropolitan area unless there is a compelling reason otherwise. but take the above list and add Marquette, Xavier and Dayton and we have a conference....Charlotte would be the odd ball and like would opt out after they decide to take up football........ All specualtion as the ACC expansion may not happen, and Cusa may only lose Louisville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouBlue Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 CUSA could still run if Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis and East Carolina all leave. The point of my post was to give info on the Valley schools and also to show that there are other interests than just basketball keeping the main schools together. I don't see why a school like Creighton would leave the relative stability of the Valley to join a league that would have just lost its 3 main schools and maybe others. I am sure if Louisville, Cincinnati & Memphis were to leave, Marquette, Houston, TCU and others would be looking around at other conferences as well. I think in looking over the remnants of CUSA in this example SLU would have more in common with the Valley than the remaining CUSA schools. Now if Marquette, DePaul & SLU could be talked into the Valley then I would be pretty happy, but any 2 of these 3 would certainly help the Valley & bring it up a notch or two as a basketball conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Acc is now considering only adding Miami. L'Ville and Cincy are the only teams with a chacne to go IMO. Memphis is going nowhere, the big east wants nothing to do with them. I would love to see CUSA regroup. Lose L'ville, pick up Dayton, Xavier and lose a couple of the bottom feeders like Tulane, Houston, TCU etc and we may have a better conference than we had with L'Ville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 if cincy stays, no way dayton or xaiver will come. cincy demanded that dayton and xaiver be left out in the original setup of conference usa. why would cincy relent now? i would bet that cincy will stand pat on that demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 >if cincy stays, no way dayton or xaiver will come. cincy >demanded that dayton and xaiver be left out in the original >setup of conference usa. why would cincy relent now? i >would bet that cincy will stand pat on that demand. Now that Cincy is in the conference, they have less leverage. If Cincy got out-voted on CUSA expansion (for say Dayton and Xavier), then what options would Cincy have if they wished to leave (also factor in paying the exit fee)? I'm sure they could find a conference but it would definitely be a basketball come-down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 In theory, I'd trade the Cincy scumbags for Xavier and Dayton in a second. Cincy is a football school and they are a bunch of outlaws. Xavier is an even better hoops school than UC now anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 If the only reason you add Detroit and Butler is to get the Indy and MoTown market then you might be disappointed - there is no reason to expect that either team will be able to compete on a regular basis with better teams. The person who said that the proposed league with those teams in it is not any better than the Valley - is correct. My point exactly. The Valley - been there done that - no need to even consider that avenue. Yes there are good teams in the Valley but none of them have been able to sustain strong programs over time - all have been dependent on the coach they had for a few years. Once the coach moves on the program drops back to the pack. A good conference replaces coaches who move on with equal or better ones so the schools stay on top more consistently. Also, the Valley has plenty of bottom feeders so who wants to get caught up with just another set of bad teams. Roy is right - nothing is wrong with simply adjusting CUSA. Adding Dayton, Xaiver, and even Creighton is fine but you have to drop some of the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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