Dog Days of college hoops

[slu72]

Boy, the board is virtually dead. We must be in the "dog days" of college hoops. Hell, I'd even read a post from TooPac just to break the monotony. Some comments:

1.) I can't see Clarke taking time away from Bryant. If he beats him out on a talent basis, then we got a steal.

2.) Why does everyone discount Dre when starting lineups are projected? This kid is a hoops junkie. I'll bet, and maybe some of you know, he's working his butt off this summer getting ready for Oct 15th. I still marvel at his first game in the CUSA tourney.

3.) Am I way off base if I project as starters: Fish, Bryant, Dre, Sloan, and Frericks? I realize it's a small one but is IO really ready for the starter at the 3?

4.) Does anyone else get the feeling the great class of talent available in St.Louis area for next years recruiting is slipping away from us? First, X man goes to Purdue (I thought he'd be a lock with the Wiley connection), Grimes expressing little interest in us, Liddell being wooed by MU, KU, and Kentucky. Hmmmmhhh?

5.) Anymore on the McKinney/Quinn spat? Or was that just wishful thinking on our part? Besides, if he left Mizzery would his first choice be SLU?

6.) Did Marcus Summerville ever decide on a school?

7.) What the hell: How about a little poll on what our record will be next year? Since, I am one of the defending champs in last years official poll, I'll start off around 18-12 and another trip to the NIT.

Man, is it hot and humid here in Charleston. Reminds me of my summers past in old St.Looey. BRoy, how we doing on the decals??

[BLIKNS]

Sommerville chose Bradley.

[3star_recruit]

"I realize it's a small one but is IO really ready for the starter at the 3?["

It's Izik's natural postition. The only reason that he played up front is because we needed him there. I'm curious how potent a scorer Izik would be if he had a 5 inch height advantage on the kid guarding him. I'm sure the staff is too. Makes me smile just thinking about it.

[davidnark]

Lidell is not being wooed by KU, KY, and Mizzou, Grimes is. The biggest concern with Lidell will be academic eligibility.

As I see it, we are batting .500 with the junior class. Only two players--Price and Polk--have committed, and we landed one of the two. Polk is a great pick up. He was rated top 75 before the injury, and most young athletes can make a 100% recovery from a broken knee cap. The Price loss didn't surprise me becuase he hasn't been our focus for a while.

[StLouBlue]

The only thing interesting these days is the Big East, ACC stuff & I am already tired of reading about it.

1. I think Clarke's playing time will be up to how he shoots the ball. He is being brought in as a shooter and if he can light it up I think he will be on the floor. My guess is though as a freshman he will be similar to Drejaj and be inconsistant and so will his minutes.

2. I just don't know the role Drejaj fits best. He seems like another Fischer with a better outside shot. Tough D & some ability to slash. How well Drejaj plays the point will probably determine his minutes though.

3. I agree we will see that lineup. Will Morris start at point over Drejaj though, I think some see that as being the case b/c Morris is Brad's type player and also has the experience edge over Drejaj at point. I also think we will be seeing different starting lineups at the beginning of the season while everyone is learning their role.

4. I think Polk is a great local recruit this early and hopefully a couple more local kids will join him. With the talent in this class we knew it was only a matter of time before the larger schools got involved. Will be interesting to see who we end up with though.

5. I don't think McKinney will be leaving. Missouri should have a very good team next year and need McKinney to be part of it. That said I also hope McKinney doesn't get over recruited. I still feel for Johnny Parker, forced to play the 4 because no one else was there and never really had a shot at playing the 3 his natural position later in his career. Parker was a real talent also who got squeezed in a numbers game at Columbia.

6. Summerville is going to Bradley. Was also given an invite to tryout for the PamAm(?) team, didn't make it, but just getting the invite was a big deal.

7. Way too early for a poll, don't even know the schedule yet.

[3star_recruit]

Starting spots are earned in practice. Now that Brad has made the decision that Izik will be primarily a small forward, I don't see any of our undersized wing players being able to handle him in practice. Sloan may be a senior but it will be a challenge for him to match up with the 6'10 Greek kid as well.

The idea that Brad's best defenders play the most minutes is nice rhetoric but not entirely true. Marque was a great offensive player but Fisher and Drejaj are better defenders. However, if Marque had played 26 min rather than 36 min a game, we would not have made the NIT.

[kshoe]

beat out Sloan at power forward at the age of 18 then we will have one hell of a player on our hands. Not to knock the kid but if he plays like most Europeans (even the ones with back-to-the-basket mentalities) he won't have near the physicality to play with Sloan. IMO, the two locks to start this year are Sloan and Reggie.

[3star_recruit]

I love Sloan but for all his scrappiness he only averaged 3.8 rpg even though he played 26 min a game. That's the worst average for a starting power forward in the league. I still think he'll start but I suspect JJ and Vouyoukas will cut into his minutes.

[SluSignGuy]

Wasn't there some talk about Sloan and Izik flipping positions on Offense and Defense. Like Sloan would play the 4 Offensively and 3 Defensively or vise versa (forgot which player would do what) with Izik playing the alternative position?

Wouldn't that add to some of Sloans minutes?

Steve

[Quality Is Job 1]

Coach Brad Soderberg said that he will explore using Izik Ohanon as a 3 on offence and a 4 on defense, which would cause him to have to use Chris Sloan as a 4 on offense and a 3 on defense. He believes that Ohanon's skills as a slasher make him more effective coming from the wing rather than being on the blocks, but he suspects he would be unable to play effective defense on the perimeter. That's the reason for the switching.

But that will only occur when the two are in the game at the same time. Will the same thing happen when Ohanon is in the game but Justin Johnson is the other forward? We've heard that Johnson is athletic, but can he chase around an opponent's wing player?

I'm not sure, yet, how much clock Ohanon will get. Right not it appears that the team is strongest at the guard positions (Brandon Morris, Josh Fisher, Reggie Bryant, Anthony Drejaj, Darren Clarke, and perhaps even Floyd McClain will log time), and I don't know how Soderberg will be able to not play a three-guard lineup most of the time. If Ohanon is effective, then Soderberg will have a pleasant dilemma.

[billiken_roy]

i am one of the lucky ones in belleville that got hit hard from the storm. still no power, spent the entire day yesterday cleaning up trees and limbs in my yard, had to find a generator to run my sump pump and fridge and freezer, living like a damn pioneer. it sucks. anyway, i came back to the office today to try to get some rest.

slu72, in actuallity, price and wiley have very little connection. wiley's younger (and now deceased) brother milt, was married for a short time to xavier's mother. xavier has a different father, and from what i hear, dad calls the shots. joe wiley is not close to the family is my understanding. price, while a fabulous athlete, is not even close to the best basketball player at his position in the st louis area. i would take liddell, lisch, jones, murkey and from what i have heard about meyer, meyer, all before price. i have NEVER seen price win a battle against any of the above players in a game and i have seen a number of games. again, price has big time athleticism, but the other kids have proven time and time again they are better basketball players. if he thinks kevin kellerman was a controlling coach, wait till he plays awhile for purdue!

i am of the opinion that the only sure starter for next year is sloan. the rest will go to those that work the hardest this summer. each player brings something different to the table that brad could capitalize on.

i personally never for a second believed that mckinney was going anywhere much less slu. too many wal-mart perks to walk away from.

predicting records for next year is pretty baseless at this point. i am claiming rights to waffle in early december after seeing the team practice. but i personally do not think we will be as good as last year. kenny brown and marque will be too difficult to replace. i agree completely that the overall roster will be stronger and more balanced, however i am having trouble seeing a replacement for marque and kenny. at least at their level of play.

slu72, i have not had a chance to look for decals, however my daughter is at the jilliken summer camp in a couple of weeks and i will try to find something then. i am not confident of finding anything. the school doesnt have a billiken marketing bone in their body.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I disagree. Marquee and Kenny meant everything to that team last year, but I believe we WILL be better this year for the following reasons:

1)Most of the team has had one year of practice in Soderbergs system; that alone will improve our play at the beginning of the year.

2)Sloan/Drejaj: Sloan's offense really came together towards the end of the season. With the summer to work on shooting and having confidence as a senior will add to his offensive production. Drejaj played very well for a freshman and I think he will only get better.

3)Overall athleticism is significantly improved. Bryant, Johnson, and Clarke are reportedly very athletic. This athleticism, IMO, can only help this team out.

4)Although KB was our rebounding and post-defense machine, I think with the added athleticism and offensive fire power, we will be able to negate his loss.

Obviously this means nothing until we see the first practice, but I think we could have a half-way exciting season ahead of us.

[billiken_roy]

i used to also be a big beleiver in the overall talent of the entire team concept. then we had the larry hughes team. all we lost was hughes, plus cranford and love came in, i thought for sure the team would be at least as good. we sucked. horrible team. i.e. the importance of the leaders/go to guy.

while kenny wasnt an offensive juggernaut by any means, he was no doubt the hands down best interior defender in the conference . and marque had one of those magical seasons that will become legendary. the kid is the walking definition of ice water. the only weakness he had offensively was an average at best outside shot, if he could shoot he would be a fricking lottery pick. marque will not be replaced easily.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>I disagree. Marquee and Kenny meant everything to that team

>last year, but I believe we WILL be better this year for the

>following reasons:

>

>1)Most of the team has had one year of practice in

>Soderbergs system; that alone will improve our play at the

>beginning of the year.

I will grant you this; I hope it means something. Soderberg's system wasn't that much different from Lorenzo Romar's -- defensively. The offense was different, and the team struggled to put up enough points to win. There was virtually no interior scoring in 2003, and I've seen little to make me think it will improve in 2004. In 2003 the offense began and ended with Marque Perry, and there's no one returning who I think is a lock to average double figures. How much better will the team be if the offense begins and ends with Reggie Bryant?

>2)Sloan/Drejaj: Sloan's offense really came together towards

>the end of the season. With the summer to work on shooting

>and having confidence as a senior will add to his offensive

>production. Drejaj played very well for a freshman and I

>think he will only get better.

Chris Sloan and Anthony Drejaj REALLY benefitted from the attention that Perry drew. Will they thrive if they are the offensive focus? I don't think they are that type of athlete. (I think Drejaj has more promise in such a role than Sloan, but there's not much hope on my part of either averaging more than about 10 ppg.)

>3)Overall athleticism is significantly improved. Bryant,

>Johnson, and Clarke are reportedly very athletic. This

>athleticism, IMO, can only help this team out.

I believe the overall athleticism will be better, but not as significantly as you think. Reggie Bryant's athleticism will compensate for the loss of Marque Perry's quickness. Justin Johnson is a good athlete, not a great athlete. He's probably about as athletic as Justin Tatum, not Kelly Thames (before his knee injury). Considering that Kenny Brown was a good athlete, I'm not sure the Billikens make up much ground in frontcourt athleticism. Therefore, the primary boost to overall athleticism is the replacement of Drew Diener by Darren Clarke. The problem is that Clarke will be a freshman, and I will expect less of Clarke as a freshman than what we got out of Diener as a senior.

>4)Although KB was our rebounding and post-defense machine, I

>think with the added athleticism and offensive fire power,

>we will be able to negate his loss.

Rebounding has been a weakness for the Billikens since the departures of Matt Baniak, Chris Heinrich, and Justin Tatum. I like Brown, but he wasn't a dominating rebounder. And Tom Frericks might be able to match his rebounding numbers. That won't be enough to keep the Bills from getting pounded on the glass. Unless the combination of Johnson, Izik Ohanon, Sloan, and whichever of the recruited big men (between Ian Vouyoukas and Bryce Husak) plays proves to be effective at rebounding on defense, look for the Bills to be eaten up on the glass again. Take heart, though, because during the Billikens' eight-game winning streak, they were outrebounded every time -- sometimes by as many as ten boards (the loss to South Florida before the streak and the loss to UAB after the streak saw the Bills outrebounding their opponent; they were even in rebounding with Minnesota).

>Obviously this means nothing until we see the first

>practice, but I think we could have a half-way exciting

>season ahead of us.

The thought I have is that it will be like the 1990-91 season.

[NashvilleBilliken]

I completely agree with your comments on Perry and KB. We'll have to wait and see, but I guess I'm placing a lot of stock in Brad's coaching and player development abilities. You are right about Hughes leaving and the team going down the crapper, but I don't think Marque was quite on the level of Hughes. He was incredible last season, but I honestly don't think he made the rest of the team that much better. We won by playing offensively slow team basketball. Marquee took over at the end of games, but the rest of the time, I do not think he had that big an impact on the players around him. Hughes made Baniak look like a superstar, but Marque couldn't quite do that to his supporting cast. Again, I loved Marque and thought he was spectacular, but with work and enough added firepower i think we could be OK. But then again, I am an optimist...

[jjray]

Way too early to make those sorts of projections Thicks as so many of players are new. We have to wait and see what this team looks like in practice at the very least to have any sort of clue.

[Mobile-iken]

If I remember correctly Thicks predicted a 20+ win season last year with a NCAA birth...Here's to hoping you are wrong again.

[3star_recruit]

Seniors graduate. Good programs replace good players. We'll see how good a program we are.

If we can't even replace a role player like Kenny Brown, we need to get out of Conference USA. I guarantee you that Louisville fans aren't going to be satisfied with an NIT bid just because Marvin Stone and potential lottery pick Reece Gaines have moved on.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>If I remember correctly Thicks predicted a 20+ win season

>last year with a NCAA birth...Here's to hoping you are wrong

>again.

Considering how far off base my pre-summer and preseason projections for 2002-03 were, I certainly can't guarantee I'll be right on point with my projections in 2003-04. It is how I see things, however.

[billiken_roy]

i would agree with you. my problem is that i have doubts the 3 bigs that we brought in are better or even as good as kenny brown. to me they seem like poor man's chris heinrich from what we have read so far. i hope i am totally wrong, but i have zero excitement about our inside recruits.

[davidnark]

"Considering that Kenny Brown was a good athlete, I'm not sure the Billikens make up much ground in frontcourt athleticism."

Kenny Brown was not a good athlete. He was slow and had a terrible verticle. His strength was, literally, his strenth.

[3star_recruit]

We may be a little worse on post defense but I would be shocked if we weren't much better on post offense. Kenny was a great defender but he had not post moves, traveled a lot, and shot 41% from the line. Frericks is roughly the same size as Kenny, reportedly has some post moves and can actually make a free throw. Braun averaged a whopping 3.4 ppg and 2.1 rpg and was an average defender, IMO. If JJ or Vouyokas can't equal that production, I may decide to walk on next year and do it myself. I think the offensive gains offset any defensive losses.

[davidnark]

If the coaching holds up this season--and we have no reason to believe it won't--then we should be much improved. Why?

Last season, Brad had basically eight players to work with. Two of these players (Drejaj and Izik) had zero college basketball experience. Six of the eight players (everyone except Brown and Bruan) were playing out of their natural position. Every single one of the players had at least one glaring weakness in their game. Not one of the players was a reliable outside shooter. None of the players had experience in Brad's coaching or development system. In short: Brad was forced to find a way to compete with an incomplete roster.

This season, Brad will have over ten different players to work with. He will have:

-Three different players who are at least 6'10" and strong to develop and play at center.

-Three different players who are between 6'6" and 6'9" to develop and play at power forward.

-A variety of choices at the small forward (Clarke, Fisher, Drejaj, Izik, and possibly McClain).

-A couple of shooting guards who should be able to consistently hit outside shots and ocassionally take it to the rack (Bryant and Clarke).

-A true point guard (Morris) and two skilled and experienced backups (Fisher and Drejaj).

In other words, Brad and his staff should not be short at any position, and they should have the flexibility to create various match-ups and combinations.

For example, when we played Minnesota we found ourselves outsized and outstrenghed. Because of the limited roster and limited player combinations, there was little we could do. This season, we could go big with Frericks, Izik, Sloan, Bryant, and Fisher or quick with Sloan/Johnson, Izik, Bryant, Drejaj, and Morriss and still have plenty of talent available to come off the bench.

Perry will be a big loss, but Morris, Clarke, and Bryant will be big gains. Brown, who really hurt the team on the offensive end of the floor, should be replaceable. Brown was a good defensive player because he was big, strong, and well-coached. I expect Frericks and Ian to also be big, strong, and well-coached.

[Quality Is Job 1]

>"Considering that Kenny Brown was a good athlete, I'm not

>sure the Billikens make up much ground in frontcourt

>athleticism."

>

>Kenny Brown was not a good athlete. He was slow and had a

>terrible vertical. His strength was, literally, his

>strength.

If Brown was slow, then prepare yourself for a long, long year. When I watched practice last fall, Brown won the suicides among bigs. He may not have been world-class, but he was certainly not slow: he could get up and down the floor. Now if what you mean by "slow" is that he didn't have any quick post moves, then I agree. Furthermore, I think his vertical leap was average, not terrible.

Brown is a good athlete. (That doesn't say "great.") I think Justin Johnson is a better athlete, but not by a whole lot.

[Quality Is Job 1]

I hope you're right, but, like Roy, I think that the heart and soul of the team departed with Marque Perry and Kenny Brown. You can't replace heart-and-soul overnight, and you certainly can't do it on paper (or with stats).