Eric Bossi on Tommie Liddell

[3star_recruit]

"He usually plays with the St. Louis Eagles but has been sitting out the last few events that they have played in order to focus on his academics and it is possible he may need a juco or prep school before it is all said and done. I'd peg him as a top 75-100 type guy at this point."

http://insiders6.ezboard.com/fkansasinside...picID=966.topic

Academics are always going to be a concern when discussing East St. Louis students. That's just how it is.

Tommie needs to pass the ACT and submit a copy of his transcript before he can make an official visit to any school. Otherwise, the NCAA stipulates that the recruit or his family have to pay for a visit out of their own pocket.

Luke Meyer and Vince Humphrey are both honor roll students, just in case anybody was wondering.

I think the staff is doing the right thing by making Tommie a priority because there is still plenty of time for him to qualify. I'm just glad they're not putting all their eggs in one basket.

[ACE]

Is Evans our best plan B if Liddell doesn't work out? Maybe the injury will scare Oklahoma away. If we make a commitment to Evans like we did Polk as the kid works his way back from injury, maybe it'll pay off for us big time down the road.

[billiken_roy]

or maybe we are saddled with evan, mcclain and polk with disabling injuries that will never be what they once were too. i dont know how many times i might role the dice on the injury thing. we might be better off chasing humphrey or cameron murkey or somebody else.

[tseugnekillib]

For discussion purposes, let's assume that it's a 50-50 chance that Tommie will have to go the juco route for two years. Would you rather lock-up a Meyers or Humphreys today, or would you wait another 12 months to see if Tommie makes his grades (and probably lose LM and VH)?

[jjray]

>For discussion purposes, let's assume that it's a 50-50

>chance that Tommie will have to go the juco route for two

>years. Would you rather lock-up a Meyers or Humphreys today,

>or would you wait another 12 months to see if Tommie makes

>his grades (and probably lose LM and VH)?

Agree that this is the proper question we need to ask ourselves. But given that there appears to be a Plan B1, B2, B3, etc (i.e., Evans, Meyer, Humphreys, et al.), I think the risk of ending up without a competitive player for the SF slot by waiting to see about Tommie Lidell's grades and interest in SLU is lessened by the sheer number of alternatives. But how long do we wait? Based on last year's class and the horendous situation he entered, UB has played his cards well to date. He doesn't strike me as the guy who prefers to let the clock run too long on signing recruits (with last year being forced by the circumstances).

[3star_recruit]

I'm speculating that Grimes will sign with Kansas and the staff will not go after a big man in this class. Instead, they'll sign a 2 and a 3. Liddell, Humphrey, Evans, Meyer and Kyle Weaver (Wisconsin kid that Swenson likes) can all play the 2 or the 3 so there's no reason to stop recruiting any of them.

Matt Shaw has done everything you can possibly do to get an offer. He's outplayed bigger kids, he's got great grades. It's not his fault he isn't 6'8.

[ACE]

Can you fill me in on this guy.

[3star_recruit]

Here's an excerpt from ChicagoHoops.com.

"Humphrey, a 6-4 swingman, is the top-rated Class of 2004 basketball prospect in the Catholic League. The high-scoring left-hander uses his strength and athleticism to get points inside and outside. Last season, Humphrey teamed with point guard Jason Okrzesik to give Fenwick a deadly offensive duo.

Earlier this month, Humphrey told Chicago Hoops that he views his versatility as one of the stronger parts of his game. Humphrey is capable of banging around a bit inside, slashing to the hole or sticking open jumpers with range. Humphrey says he is working to improve his finishing skills with his right hand."

http://www.chicagohoops.com/articles/humphrey.html

[SLUDrew]

Definitely, without question, wait for Liddell. The ONLY way this program is going to move ahead is by going for the big recruits. Think about it, if we get those other guys we will stay where we are, which is a scrappy team that will scare some good teams, but not really a team to be reckoned with in March. However, if we do what it takes to get the big recruits, even if that means missing out on some, we have a chance to move this program ahead.

[jjray]

>I'm speculating that Grimes will sign with Kansas and the

>staff will not go after a big man in this class. Instead,

>they'll sign a 2 and a 3. Liddell, Humphrey, Evans, Meyer

>and Kyle Weaver (Wisconsin kid that Swenson likes) can all

>play the 2 or the 3 so there's no reason to stop recruiting

>any of them.

>

>Matt Shaw has done everything you can possibly do to get an

>offer. He's outplayed bigger kids, he's got great grades.

>It's not his fault he isn't 6'8.

I'm beginning to think you are right 3Star, it is the best explanation for why other names have not surfaced at PF ... it's Grimes or no one. The whole issue with Shaw is height so, unless he goes on a 2 inch growth spurt in the next 6 months or gains 20 pounds, I don't see how his situation changes from the perspective of our coaching staff.

[billiken_roy]

if there is a 50-50 chance that liddell wont make it academically, i would pass. as much as i hate to say that, i'd take the sure thing.

[kshoe]

If Tommy were willing to committ tommorrow I would take him right now and hope the grades work out.

Marquette did ok with Wade sitting out a year.

[billiken_roy]

i disagree on the "grimes or no one" angle. i believe there must be someone else. however, if it is true they turned matt yelovich away that would tend to prove the theory. yelovich is also highly regarded and has size to boot and apparently was interested in slu.

still, imo there are other prospects that we just dont know about. maybe juco (taj gray) or prep school kids. maybe dennard abraham will continue to take the test, i.e. travon bryant, and still come. who knows, but with varner and sloan both leaving next year, one would think that we would want at least one inside player to take a spot on the roster that they were filling now.

[billiken_roy]

someone explain prop 48, dont they either have to pass the ACT or have the necessary gpa to at least enroll but sit like wade did? if they bomb both, i dont think they can come. am i right on that?

[kshoe]

then we shouldn't take him b/c his chances of qualifying are very small. I would venture to guess that he has the grades to qualify. Most players do.

If Tommy was to not qualify he could enroll at SLU, sit a year, and have 3 years of eligibility remaining. I think this would have happened with Kern if Romar had stayed. If he graduated in 4 years his fourth year of eligibility would be restored. The real trick is to convince a player he should pay (although a bunch of financial aid can be given) and sit out a year when he can go to JUCO and play immediately.

[aj_arete]

Without seeing him (which I admit would be the most ideal), it doesn't excite me to see only mid-major schools after him. Just pure speculation, but I would guess he has questionable ballhandling skills and is a pure slasher. However, his size is not ideal to play the 3 at a major college.

I agree with SLUDrew in that I'd wait awhile to see if Liddell can make the grades. While Billiken Roy makes some good points about not focusing on too many players who are injury risks, I'd like to see what Terry Evans does his senior year before going after a Humphrey. Pre-injury, I thought Terry Evans was the real deal. Anyway, it looks like Humphrey will still be available later or else he would have signed last spring.

[aj_arete]

I know Grimes should be a primary focus. However we did recruit Husak, the 2 Greek players, and Frericks. I think we can hold off on a big man next year and then go JUCO the next in order to replace Frericks. I like the idea of getting more athleticism on the wing anyway...

[billiken_roy]

this is not directed at aj, but rather at all those that want to wait maybe until next spring to possibly get liddell.

a couple of seasons ago, romar's billikens was on the final list for travis diener, david lee, jamal sampson, chuck hayes, dominic ingersol, and jamal williams. all top 25 players. the billikens ended up being the second choice on diener, hayes, sampson and williams. and the only thing i heard after that was "why in the world did romar wait so long to go get different players. by the time we were left at the altar, all the good players were gone."

but now everyone wants to wait? and in reality it is a double wait. academics and school choice. it might be different if tommie had declared already he wanted to go to school at slu, but he hasnt even said that. if he wont commit, i say take the next choice.

[billiken_roy]

there is only 1 greek player. my point is that we are losing 2 inside players in sloan and varner. granted sloan will play some wing and varner will hardly play, but still the roster is losing 2 inside players so it only makes sense we sign at least 1 to replace those 2 departing. especially since 2 of the 3 inside players we are bringing in next year have been labeled "projects" in husak and the greek, plus we have yet to see what justin johnson will actually do in a game.

[3star_recruit]

"Without seeing him (which I admit would be the most ideal), it doesn't excite me to see only mid-major schools after him. Just pure speculation, but I would guess he has questionable ballhandling skills and is a pure slasher."

I've seen him AJ ... on video. He handles the ball as well as Drejaj and has a mean crossover. According to one Chicago newspaper he shoots over 80% from the line. I've listened to at least a half dozen webcasts of Humphrey's games through the Fenwick web site and he's good for at least one three pointer every game. I'm not worried about his range.

This is the NCAA, not the NBA. There's quite a few 6'4 swingmen at major colleges having success - Keith Langford, Brandon Mouton, Maurice Hargrow, Gary Buchanan (he's 6'3), etc.

[3star_recruit]

Some people make basketball too complicated. The keys to the game are shotmaking, rebounding, minimizing turnovers and making stops. If you come out on top in three of those categories you're going to win a lot of ball games. You just need to recruit players who are good in at least three of those categories. If the players are top 100 recruits, great, but that's not a requirement.

The Oakland A's have done a similar analysis when they evaluate talent because they can't afford high priced players. According to their analysis, a player that hits .270 and walks all the time will score much more often than a player that hits .310 but seldom walks. They also rate smart baserunners higher than other organizations. I encourage fans to think outside the box when they're discussing recruits.

[tseugnekillib]

if you are including ballhandling and passing/pass catching under the "minimizing turnovers" category, then I agree with you completely. Somewhere a player's PASSION for the game / work ethic has to be evaluated as well.

[3star_recruit]

"Somewhere a player's PASSION for the game / work ethic has to be evaluated as well."

That's tricky. Who has more passion for the game -- Jimmy McKinney or Deron Williams? Darren Clarke or Luther Head? If you asked 5 different people, you might get five different answers.

[aj_arete]

Does he play for a weak high school? Does he have a questionable jumper? Is he not athletic enough?

Or it could simply mean that Chicago just has so much talent...

[tseugnekillib]

I was thinking more of tying passion to work ethic....improving one's skill. How hard did Marque work to improve his game versus say Jason Edwin or Drew D? But then again, perhaps only those really close to the players, such as coaches and fellow players, would know the true answer.