IF you think Marquette is superior to SLU check this ou

[TheA_Bomb]

If you think Marquette is superior to SLU check this link and it should remove that thought from your mind.

http://www.mu.edu/

[TheA_Bomb]

I didn't realize that the picture of the student changes from visit to visit. Refresh the site until you see the pic of the Back Street Boy want to be in the Marquette advertisement. That is funny and sad at the same time.

That coupled with the following phrases:

A challenging curriculum.

A passionate faculty.

A caring vibrant community.

It's waiting for you.

I just thought it was very funny.

There are 7 different pics of students. Refresh until you get the one that looks like a gay pirate. It is worth it. B-Law what is going on up there in the land of Cheese curd??

[SLUNATE]

Marquette University....

Chicks that look like dudes.

Flaming metrosexuals.

Be the Difference.

[slufanskip]

Come on now... A spirited and even a little heated discussion is one thing ... The site is a little funny ... but lets be careful not to step over the line.

Nate you are off to a good start on this board.

[SLUNATE]

was that sarcasm or a legit compliment....if the latter, thanks...it would be my first....I always watched from afar, but had to register when i was getting ripped for going on KFNS and actually saying the MVC might be a good idea....

[Quality Is Job 1]

I don't think anyone ripped you. All we did was say what you said on the radio or repeat what was read from you by a radio talking head and disagree with your take that the Missouri Valley would be a better option for SLU than either the A-10 or the Big East. We also questioned your faithfullness as a SLU fan, given your sentiments, but as you have listened to reason and seen the light and plan on reversing your statements, we will withdraw those questions.

May I also suggest that you show class and not be crass? Some of your statements are very ungentlemanly. I believe you'll find that if you defend the honor of the Billikens in your posts, you won't often have to defend yourself, but if you attack the Bills' status as an improving high-major program with potential to be top 40 or better, die-hard Billikens fans with high expectations may well attack you. While I suppose it's possible for SLU to have some fans who don't care if SLU is a perennial .500 team in a mid-major conference, I question the self-esteem of such fans. Shouldn't every team be fighting to move up and get better?

[SLUNATE]

well, I wish this would have been listed in the URL as BILLIKENHOMER.com...then I would have known that you can either toe the party line, or get dissed. I like the MVC. I think you'll see in the next year or two that it will grow as a stronger conference. I don't think joining the A-10 is automatically going to throw us into the tourney, and I don't think it is the perfect fit, though it is growing on me as an option. To automatically say that anyone who disagrees with you is a trojan horse for MU, is ungentlemanly has low self esteem IS crass.

and yes, I was ripped...

[Quality Is Job 1]

>well, I wish this would have been listed in the URL as

>BILLIKENHOMER.com...then I would have known that you can

>either toe the party line, or get dissed.

It's Billikens.com because it's a place where people can talk about the Billikens. No one said that you can't criticize the Bills here. However, many of the most frequent fans here are *strong* Billikens supporters (homers, if you insist). Posters have every right to post critical and even derogatory takes of the Billiken program, but the "homers" also have every right to defend their favorite program with all due vehemence. It's not our fault that you're both wrong and outnumbered .

>I like the MVC.

I have nothing against the Missouri Valley Conference, but I don't want SLU to be a member of that conference. I aspire to bigger things.

>I think you'll see in the next year or two that it will grow

>as a stronger conference.

You are obviously a Valley fan (I'm not). Personally, I don't see any evidence that the MVC is on the rise. Some believe that conference is headed in the opposite direction. Only time will tell.

>I don't think joining the A-10 is

>automatically going to throw us into the tourney, and I

>don't think it is the perfect fit, though it is growing on

>me as an option.

Nothing will automatically "throw" SLU into the NCAA Tournament except their winning the conference tourney. The issue, though, is that if SLU doesn't win their conference tourney, the A-10's power ranking affords them a considerably better chance to be an at-large team than the MVC does. It may not be a "perfect" fit (the perfect fit doesn't currently exist, and creating it will be next to impossible in today's college-athletics environment/economy), but it's a much better fit than the MVC.

>To automatically say that anyone who

>disagrees with you is a trojan horse for MU, is

>ungentlemanly has low self esteem IS crass.

No comment.

>and yes, I was ripped...

If you feel that you were "ripped," you may not want to rip SLU and its chances of being a top-notch program. You "ripped" SLU on a station in such a way that casual fans would very likely believe most SLU fans embrace mediocrity, so die-hard SLU fans "ripped" you in the only forum where they truly have a voice. The only way SLU will get more positive coverage in the ignorant St. Louis media is to win beyond their dreams (but within our hopes), because Bernie Miklasz, Bryan Burwell, Mike Claiborne, Demetrious Johnson, etc., will not give true-blue, non-bandwagon Bills fans a place to voice reason.

[SLUNATE]

but I said nothing derogatory about SLU....all i did was say why I thought SLU and the MVC would be a nice fit...at no time did I say that SLU can't play with anyone else....that's MY point...take what I said on it's merits, don't look for something to freak out about or read into what I said and declare a Mizzou conspiracy

[Quality Is Job 1]

...you didn't make any derogatory statements about SLU when not only did you say that the Missouri Valley would be a better place than either the A-10 or the Big East but you also wrote, "I really think they'd excel in the Valley. Instead of getting pasted in a bigger conference year in and year out,..."

If you've changed your mind, I respect that, but don't say you never said anything derogatory about SLU or that you didn't suggest that "SLU can't play with anyone else."

[SLUNATE]

I did say that, but I think I was referring to the big east (a post previous to that one mentioned that conf)...and while I think we'd D'ed up and played to our opponents, I think we'd find ourselves falling away from the Syracuses, BC's and Uconns in the short term. My take is that you build a winning tradition by, well, winning. Right? Now the A10 affords us a better opportunity of that then the Big East, absolutely. I still think it will make for rough waters, at least in the short term.

[billiken_roy]

i am still waiting for anyone that is in love with the mvc to present some solid reasons why the mvc will get stronger. the trend over the last 5 seasons is that the mvc is sliding down the rpi scale fast and furious. from an alltime high of 7 five seasons ago to last season being 14th. couple that steady slide with the fact that the only decent programs, siu and creighton appear likely to level off after huge player and/or coaching losses after last season, please nate, tell us why the conference is getting stronger starting now.

[slufanskip]

Nate ... I think you were refering to my comment about you being off to a nice start earlier. It was sarcasm.

You are not off to a nice start. Of course you are entitled to your opinion ... but on a Billiken board ... downgrading them is not goin to get you off to a good start. Then your comments about the Marquette site were over the line.

SLU has been competitive in CUSA ...why could they not be even a little more competitive in a conference that is a step below what CUSA has been?

[tseugnekillib]

broy, the answer your looking for from SluNate is delayed because he can't tell you how the present 10 team make-up of the MVC is going to get stronger.

It appears to me that the power in the Valley could shift year-to-year from say, SIUC and Creighton to perhaps Wichita State and Bradley, but that doesn't mean the conference as a whole has gotten better, just new leaders at the top.

imho, the only way the Valley can get stronger is (1) the addition of new teams, such as Butler, Tulsa, Western Kentucky, etc., and I don't see this happening; (2) the ejection of struggling schools like Drake, Evansville and Northern Iowa, and I don't see this happening; (3) increasing all Valley rpi's by significantly improved non-conference scheduling with teams from the top six or seven power conferences, and I don't see this happening.

I think a couple of recent things have helped the Valley's image in metro St. Louis. First, has been the exciting and great NCAA run by Bruce Weber's Salukis. (I'm not sure if Northern Iowa would have had that same success, and not SIUC, that the positive vibes would have played as well in our area and with our media.) Secondly, the Valley's commissioner, Doug Elgin, has played a good role in assisting St. Louis and it's Sport's Commission in getting NCAA tourney events at the Jones Dome and this rightly keeps the Valley's name out front. (But without the Dome, Valley help or no Valley help, the major NCAA games don't happen.)

[Billiken Law]

and didn't see any "gay pirates" running around. Plenty of co-eds that blew away just about anything I went to school with, but I digress! Also saw the results of $150 million in new construction - the campus is beautiful - it isn't the Marquette I attended. I still think SLU's campus is nicer but it isn't the slam dunk it once was. I have to give an advantage to MU's surrounding neighborhood as well in terms of things for students to do (more bars, restaurants, etc).

As for the students featured on MU's site, tell me how they're any different from the students you find on SLU's campus or any other big private school campus? They're college kids, they have a fashion sense different from the rest of us. The last time I was at Humphrey's my fiancee (only 24 and someone who isn't adverse to revealing dress) thought there was a prostitute convention going on there when it turned out they were just SLU co-eds. A bunch of Britney Spears wanna-be's (not that I have a problem with that!). Does that make a SLU an inferior school?

[SLUNATE]

i wasn't around....

at any rate...I think SIUC will finish what Weber started, I think they will continue to improve. Improvements have been made to Drake and No Iowa.

I think they will have two teams in the tourney next year and that there RPI will improve.

[billiken_roy]

"finishing" would have typically constituted hiring someone other than an assistant coach with no previous head coaching experience. if brad hadnt been a head coach at two previous colleges and had success at both, i am guessing the billikens would not have hired him.

matt painter has never been a head coach and in fact the assistant position at siu is the most acclaimed position he has ever held. previous assistant positions were a grad assistant at washington and jefferson college, then one year as an assistant at barton college, then 3 years as an assistant at eastern illinois then his 5 year stint as weber's assistant at siu.

i am not saying he wont be a fabulous head coach. heck, all head coaches had to start somewhere. but my point is that if siu really had bigger and better aspirations, i have to believe that they would have went for a bigger name or at least a higher program assistant coach.

[SLUNATE]

Is there nothing to be said for letting a guy who the kids know and who did a lot of Weber's recruiting get a shot? Coaches have egos...who's to say that a bigger coach wouldn't have had his own ideas about recruiting, scheduling, etc that would have been contrary to what Weber and the administration planned together. They just promoted someone who wants to work from that same blueprint. I think you could say SLU did the same thing with Brad, regardless of his previous experience.

[billiken_roy]

nate, as i said, i am not saying matt wont be a success. my point is that if siu really had any bigger aspirations, they would have used the hand up that weber had provided and sought a higher experienced head coach or assistant. from what i have heard, matt is a very aggressive recruiter and you are correct the existing kids undoubtedly like him a lot. but still you cannot argue the fact that his resume doesnt lead you to believe the siu administration really sought the best man to carry the torch. especially considering that painter was named to the position almost immediately following weber's exit.

[SLUNATE]

I'm sure Weber lobbied on his behalf as well

[TheA_Bomb]

B-Law I guess not having a sense of humour probably helps in Law School. The post was a joke, we all know that SLU is better with or without the gay pirate factor.

[StLouBlue]

I was done posting about the MVC, because it has gotten quite a beating on this message board lately, but since it sounds like B-Roy asked a reasonable question about it I will try to answer. I don't think anyone anyone on the board, other than maybe SluNate, who has since changed his opinion has advocated SLU joining the MVC. That being said, I think the MVC is a good conference and I think it has a bright future. If you are sick of reading about the MVC, I suggest stop reading now.

Reasons why MVC getting stronger.

1. There are some very good coaches in the league.

2. MVC has traditionally been a guard league, lately though teams have been able to bring in some quality big men to the league. Sommerville at Bradley, Tolliver at Creighton, Miller at WSU this year and for next year Smith and Watts from Creighton and Bryant for Bradley. Also Drake has a transfer from Tulsa coming in--don't have name in front of me.

3. Attendance is good at most schools in the MVC.

4. Has put at least 2 teams in the NCAAs the last 5 years.

Breakdown of Teams in the MVC.

WICHITA STATE. Has a new arena opening this year, not sure how many people it will hold, believe around 10k. WSU could be the best team in the Valley--have 4 returning starters(3jrs & 1soph) including probable preseason MVP in Howard. Good young coach in Turgeon, KU alum.

NORTHERN IOWA. Will be getting a new arena within next few years. Have two returning starting seniors who were leaders last year in scoring and rebounding, along with the 3 other starters. Have 5 freshmen and two transfers--may finally have depth that this team has been lacking. Coach McDermott is starting his 3rd year there. Put 7 years as head coach in Division II, before returning to alma mater as head coach.

EVANSVILLE. Returning 3 starters including the teams only senior Cuffle, who was also teams leading scorer. Has had a lot of player turnover, but this has also allowed 2nd year coach Merfield to get his type players in system. Merfield came from Hampton after 2 straight NCAA appearances.

DRAKE. Returning 3 starters including teams only senior and leading scorer McDonald, who will probably be the schools all time leading scorer by end of season. New coach Dr Tom Davis has revitalized this program. Will take a couple years to get quality athletics in system, but team should improve play from the start.

INDIANA STATE. Probably the worst team in the MVC. Moss was the freshman of the year in the MVC though. Waltman resurrected program 4-5 years ago and got them to 20 wins and in the NCAA, not sure he will be back if team is bad again this year.

ILLINOIS STATE. Four returning starters and two transfers, Echols from Missouri and Plank from Wisconsin. Team was soft last year, so this year have a new coach. Moser, young coach from UALR, from Illinois orginally, played at Creighton. Turned UALR program around from under 10 wins to 18 in first season.

BRADLEY. Returning 4 starters, including Gilbert who lead conference in scoring. Sommerville, a frwd/center, is their big recruit, a JUCO trans who played freshman year at Iowa. Les is in 2nd year here, also alum of Bradley.

SMS. Also 4 returning starters, 3 of which are seniors. Very good freshman class. Has a very talented and deep team. Does a very good job of recruiting the St Louis area. Hinson is in 4th year.

SIU. One of two best teams in MVC last few years. Lost head coach Weber and two main players in Williams and Dearman. Has other 3 starters returning. Also very good freshman class and also recruits St Louis very well. Young assistant coach Painter moved up to head coach, was assistant at SIU for all 5 years Weber was there.

CREIGHTON. Returning 3 starters and also has a very good recruiting class coming in, with Missourians Blackwell and Tolliver headlining. Will be opening a new arena also this year, holds 15k. Head coach Altman is still there, 10th season at CU.

What MVC must do to continue improving:

1. Keep the quality coaches you have. Creighton has increased Altman's money to stay competitive with offers he has received in past. Altman is very comfortable at Creighton and hopefully will stay for the long term. Bradley and NIU both have hired alums recently, both should be long term coaches also. Davis will probably not be long term, but hopefully will get Drake turned around and then hand off. Turgeon should be around to see how his young talented team does, but will probably be mentioned for Big12 openings in the future. Hinson has a lot of good young talent, I would think he wouldn't be leaving anytime soon either.

2. Scheduling is a problem league wide. As was posted earlier there not many power conference teams on MVC schedules, mostly because these teams do not want to play a road game against an MVC team. Hopefully with the opening up of holiday tournaments, this will be an opportunity for MVC schools to get neutral site games w/ these teams. Once league improves to a top 10 or better league hopefully the power conference teams will start scheduling these games more.

3. Continue to bring in talent. Creighton, SIU, SMS and WSU have brought in some very good young talent with their recent success. This should help the league and force the other schools to do the same. There is a lot of talent in the midwest and the MVC schools have done a very good job of identify these kids and getting them to come to the MVC schools.

Summary: In the short term, I expect MVC teams to have 2-3 teams in the NCAAs and also at least one team in the top 25 the next few years. Long term will depend on keeping the good coaches in the league and upgrading scheduling as best as they can. Sorry this is soo long.

[tseugnekillib]

Prostitute convention / SLU co-eds / a bunch of Britney Spears wanna-be's ............... unbelievable! Can't wait to pass these observations to my nieces attending SLU. They think they are normal college kids.

Let's see, October 18th and bball is here in only 18 days and three hours. It can't get here soon enough!

[Schasz]

I don't think anyone will argue the point that the MVC is a nice mid major basketball league and has a secure place among mid majors. SLU has long since passed the desire to be a mid major and that is a major reason why I believe the Billikens will be playing in the A-10 if CUSA does implode due to anticipated defections to the Big Least.

[billiken_roy]

gushing over "big man" /forward center marcellus somerville pretty much had me discount your whole post. somerville indeed is one of the best newcomers in not only the mvc but the entire country, however, marcellus is an pure shooter that will play wing and defend 2 guards and small forwards. it is hard to believe your information and cheerleading when you dont even know what position the best newcomer in the league actually plays.