Bringing Big 10 Hoops to CUSA

[slu72]

is what I think Uncle Brad is trying to accomplish at SLU. From many years observing the OSU Buckeyes, the Big 10 likes smashmouth bb. Really big not necessarily overly athletic guys underneath pounding the boards and hammering the slasher athletes that dare to enter their territory. I remember reading some years ago when Bobby Knight released DelRay Brooks, USA today's HS player of the year, saying he didn't have the Big 10 mentality. What Knight was saying was Brooks wasn't tough enough. He was a slasher who would get beaten to death everytime he took a trip to no man's land. The Big 10 looks for the good perimiter types who can shoot 3's and med range jumpers. Who knows Brad may never recruit that athletic type slasher 4 we all drool over. I don't think he envisions IO as a 4 as much as he does a difficult player for the opponent to defend at the 3 position. I think maybe this is why he hasn't gone hard after Shaw, i.e. he's not big enough for a four and doesn't have the skills for the 3. It's too bad UB didn't have our 1999-2002 squads with Heinrich, Tatum, Baniak, Love, and Jeffers. That appears to me to be his kind of team.

[Quality Is Job 1]

The problem with that thinking is that Brad Soderberg now coaches in Conference USA, not the Big 10, and has said that he will recruit athletes who can win in C-USA. I believe he (SLU) will need more lean, long, slashing leapers at the four and five spots than lumbering giants.

[Basketbill]

With the exception of frericks, I am not sure Brad has recruited "lumbering giants". Husak is reported to run well, perhaps the Greek kid is a lumberer, but I will wait and see.....

Slow board overall these past two weeks......

[billiken_roy]

everything i have read about all of these "bigs" is heinrich clones. count me in the "i gotta see it first" group. i still believe that only morris makes much of an impact. fericks will do laborous duty, but will go unnoticed. clark will have to battle the numbers for p.t. and the other two are just numbers at this point. i hope they all prove me wrong, but whatever impact we make next year will likely be because of bryant and improvements from returnees imo.

[davidnark]

I admit that I have never seen Husak or the Greek play, but the descriptions Brad has provided do not sound much like Heinrich. With respect to Husak, Brad was impressed by his "hands, ability to run the floor...and his coordination for a seven footer." With respect to the Greek, Brad was impressed by his "great hands and tremendous passing ability."

Heinrich had terrible hands, no passing ability, and below average coordination. Heinrich was best described as a strong defender and a strong rebounder, but he was never referred to as coordinated or possesing good hands. Frericks may be cut from the Chris Heinrich/Kenny Brown mold.

Brad's description of Husak and the Greek are available at:

http://slubillikens.ocsn.com/sports/m-bask.../042203aaa.html

http://slubillikens.ocsn.com/sports/m-bask.../050603aaa.html

[billiken_roy]

nm

[davidnark]

Just because a big man has a different set of skills than Heinrich or Brown does not mean he will be a good D1 players. Chris Braun could be described as coordinated for a big man with a good outside shot; unfortunately, he was also relatively weak, a poor rebounder, and a poor defender.

Only time will tell whether Husak or the Greek will be successful at SLU. I would not, however, pigeon hole either of them into a Chris Heinrich category. (I still believe that neither Spoon nor Romar effectively used Heinrich and Baniak's skill sets.)

[billiken_roy]

since steve has removed his billiken past stat link, i cant research it, but if you look to the years that chris braun wasnt injured, i bet you will see he was one of the highest if not the leader on the team in blocked shots and defensive rebounds per minutes played. while i dont consider chris' billiken career a big success, and i tend to agree he played weak, (especially his final season when he was hurt) he held his own defensively and under the boards. if i was picking a defender between braun and baniak, i would take braun.

[3star_recruit]

Robert Jackson, Scott Merritt, Marvin Stone and Ellis Myles are not long, lean slasher types. Yet, Marquette and Louisville were the two best teams in the conference last year. I think Brad is headed in the right direction by bringing in some skilled post players over 6'9.

Also, our wing play is lacking. The top wing players for Louisville and Marquette were 6'6 and 6'4, respectively and scored in the neighborhood of 20 pts a game. Louisville and Marquette also had nice complimentary wings who were 6'7 and 6'10 respectively and could shoot the lights out. Our best wing player was 6'1 and his support consisted of 6'2 guys with streaky jumpshots. Again, the signing of Darren Clarke and the full-court press on Tommie Liddell are steps in the right direction.

[billiken_roy]

one more thing, my comparison to baniak is as much one of a non-contributor so to speak as it was to his specific style of play. i was never a heinrich booster. i still cringe remembering this 6'10" 270 lb man afraid to take up a shot and draw a foul. with his size alone he should have been dominating in the middle offensively. what is surprising is he wasnt afraid to throw it around defensively, so why disappear on the other end? when i think of what heinrich should have been, i think at least big country bryant in his days at ok state. in fact sheer strength and size should have put heinrich ahead of bryant. however, i dont think any of us will ever think of chris heinrich production in the same category with bryant.

[SluSignGuy]

Roy, here you go:

http://www.billikens.com/stats.htm

I didn't even realize I didn't have it anymore, I will fix it tonight or tomorrow.

Steve

[ACE]

Nice analysis as usual 3star. I'd like to see us upgrade the wing spot also. I was a little disappointed we didn't get an athletic 3 in the recruiting period. Signing a kid like Liddell would be perfect.

[MICHAELSPAPPY]

OK with me. I like the hard-nosed style the Big 10 plays.

[Quality Is Job 1]

Please note that I didn't say SLU couldn't or shouldn't have ANY lumbering giants manning the interior position; I just said that there should be more players in those positions that are long, lean slashers.

Also, for a four or five, "slashing" doesn't have to mean driving from 15 feet (a la Izik Ohanon); it could be a quick move in the lane or a reverse -- like a Nick Collison or Jared Jeffries.

[davidnark]

I disagree regarding Braun v. Baniak. Baniak was a fundamentally sound, respectable defender. He never did anything spectacular defensively, but he always did a good job.

Braun, by contrast, played defense with his hands and arms, not by moving his feet and body. Braun was frequently pushed around by better big men. He was regularly out of defensive and rebounding position due to his tendancy to attempt to block every shot. The defensive drop-off when Braun replaced Brown was significant. The only thing Braun had on Baniak was about two inches of height.

I agree with Former_D1's opinion that Heinrich and Baniak could have been real good players with the right system and coaching.

[billiken_roy]

thanks steve

if you take braun and baniak's minutes played for the two years they played together, you will find that their rate of defensive rebounds and blocked shots per minutes played are almost identical. i simply do not remember baniak being any kind of defensive stalwart while playing for the billikens. he wasnt a slouch, but imo neither was braun.

actually i guess the fact we are arguing about which two billiken underachievers was less inept is stupid. i move we drop the discussion.