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OJ said

But this is just getting goofy, so here is the deal. I know the real reason SLU hasn't offered John and it all centers around lack of opportunity. They have not been able to get in touch with him through the same channels they are using to get in touch with other players and that is the bottom line.

So if you are not allowed to talk to a recruit until a certain age, what are your choices? Talk to his coach -- and if his coach has no time for you, are you screwed? I don't know all the NCAA rules, but from what OJ says, it sounds like someone is pushing this kid in certain directions, or putting up walls so that some can't get to him.

All this nonsense about UB not offering -- OJ says he hasn't had the opportunity. My question is why?

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because a college coach is prohibited from directly contacting a recruit at all before their junior year and then in their junior year i believe they can make one contact in like may or june.

http://www.varsityedge.com/nei/varsity.nsf...es?opendocument

so unless the recruit contacts the college coach, or the college coach goes through a 3rd party to verbally make that offer say a high school coach, there is no way of making that offer.

it especially becomes difficult if say the high school coach has a hardon because the said college coach ignored a previous player that high school coach likely thought was worthy and the college coach didnt agree.

the above makes the whole argument on the board (among a lot of other stupid comments and arguments lately) makes our posters look very dumb. i return to self exile.

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We already offered Griffey, which shows that it doesn't have to do with opportunities. There could be any number of reasons that we haven't offered Brandenburg yet, which still doesn't mean we won't. He's still got a lot of high school ball left.

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>because a college coach is prohibited from directly

>contacting a recruit at all before their junior year and

>then in their junior year i believe they can make one

>contact in like may or june.

>

>http://www.varsityedge.com/nei/varsity.nsf...es?opendocument

>

>

>so unless the recruit contacts the college coach, or the

>college coach goes through a 3rd party to verbally make that

>offer say a high school coach, there is no way of making

>that offer.

>

>it especially becomes difficult if say the high school coach

>has a hardon because the said college coach ignored a

>previous player that high school coach likely thought was

>worthy and the college coach didnt agree.

>

>the above makes the whole argument on the board (among a lot

>of other stupid comments and arguments lately) makes our

>posters look very dumb. i return to self exile.

Oh dear, what will we do? The great Roy is returing to exile. How will the board manage without him? Could the stupid comments and arguments have possibly come from Roy? I guess he'll grace our presence again with he has some more rumors to spread about another recruit. What a pompous, hypocritcal jerk. Good riddance Roy. Don't come back.

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"the above makes the whole argument on the board (among a lot of other stupid comments and arguments lately) makes our posters look very dumb."

Glass houses broy, glass houses...

I've reread the above comment without the parens and still cannot decipher a coherent sentence. I'm not a rhetorician like Doc (thank god), but the quoted comment above seems deficient on a number of fronts. Combine this with your comment that 'phan brought up on another post (where i agree with 'phan and b-rich, that comment made zero sense), and you're left with an unstable foundation to wield any meaningful criticisms.

Plus, you failed to respond in any meaningful way to the apparent contradiction that i confronted you with last week.

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>We already offered Griffey, which shows that it doesn't have

>to do with opportunities. There could be any number of

>reasons that we haven't offered Brandenburg yet, which still

>doesn't mean we won't. He's still got a lot of high school

>ball left.

Unless the innuendo is that DeSmet coach is still irked with SLU over not recruiting Ahern and therefore won't help UB get a word to Brandenburg. That's a possibility, I guess, just speculating on what the meaning of OJ's post was.

In response to broy, I'm not sure how you've made my argument look stupid, if I was who you were referring to (I think you were just being general). I've simply maintained that we should not back off or not offer a recruit a schollie b/c we don't think he's interested at this time if he's a top flight recruit in your own city. If ever a school like SLU has a shot at a player of that caliber, it's when that player is in the schools backyard. I only ever used Brandenburg as an example, not as the second-coming. Whether he in particular should be offered is a different argument from the one I've been making.

Also curious why broy is self-imposing an exile. I did so myself recently and I'm curious if our reasons are the same. (Mine was similarly uninteresting to 'Phan although I've returned and agree with him on a few occasions now)

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its just another notch in the magnitude of how big a screw-up not recruiting Ahearn was. If it is true that we can't get access to a quality player because the DeSmet head coach doesn't like Brad because of the Ahearn situation then its a huge screw-up. DesMet is one of the best programs in the area and we've been cut-off.

Again, all this is based on the speculation that we indeed can't get to Brandenburg because of his coach...

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Perhaps the DeSmet coach is happy with Ahearn's great career at SMS.

Perhaps BA's production his first two years in the MVC would far exceed what his production would have been his first two years in

C-USA. Perhaps the DeSmet coach agrees.

Perhaps the DeSmet coach is pissed that Kramer Soderberg isn't a DeSmet Spartan.

Perhaps the DeSmet coach really doesn't care where BA or KS went to school.

Perhaps the DeSmet coach and Brad Soderberg get along just fine.

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DeSmet's coach, Bob Steiner, has NO hard feelings toward SLU whatsoever for not giving a scholarship to Blake Ahearn. Steiner is a "system" coach (though I hate the term), and constantly butted heads with Blake throughout his career because he wasn't a good team player and had a huge ego. It didn't help when Blake broke his wrist trying to dunk and missed a lot of games (I don't remember if that was his junior or senior year). Steiner didn't exactly promote Blake as a great use of a scholarship to college coaches, and harbors no negativity towards SLU's coaches for passing on him. If SLU doesn't offer or sign Brandenburg, it will not be because of DeSmet's coach- in fact, he will probably put in a good word for both parties.

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"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

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I love the theory of bash the player to make BS look competant. Blake is "not a team player" and has "a huge ego." Silliness really.

For the record, I have heard the exact opposite of your comments regarding Ahearn. Doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong just that I have heard a different story regading Ahearn and his time at DeSmet. To support my knowledge I would only say that my son went to a DeSmet BBall camp last year and Ahearn was speaking about and demonstrating the importance of freethrows. Can't really imagine Steiner asking Ahearn back to speak if what you say is true, unless Steiner is that kind of two faced guy. And if he is that type of guy maybe that explains why he didn't promote the use of a scholarship on Ahearn.

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High school coaches always have their former players in college come back to give a speech or run a few drills at their camps. It doesn't mean they have a great relationship, and it's a lot easier to be civil when they aren't dealing with each other every day. Having Blake come in and speak about free throws is a natural choice with the way the kid shoots them. But to use this example to say that everything is great between the coach and player is foolish. Camps and banquets are largely public relations events for kids and fans, and you can bet that everyone involved with the program is putting their best foot forward. Posters on this board have also made false assumptions about players and coaches at SLU based on a handshake at the banquet.

Doesn't anyone remember Blake Ahearn's wrist injury after shanking a dunk after his coach yelled not to dunk when they were already winning by a lot in the 4th quarter? Did anyone watch him play his senior year when he was so unpopular with his own classmates that DeSmet was consistently outdrawn at home by opposing teams' students?

People are still complaining that SLU didn't give this kid an offer, but there's a lot more that goes into it than free throws and three point shooting. Look at the Valley conference tournament this year- Blake crumbled with pressure on his shoulders, and MSU deserved the snub they got from the NCAA committee.

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Sounds to me that maybe Ahearn beat your kid out of some playing time. There seems to be a lot of hard feelings in your post. Settle down, take a deep breath, everything is going to be OK.

The DeSmet coach has to put the best face forward when players are at DeSmet but after they leave he is under no obligation to have them return. I have no clue what the relationship is between Ahearn and Steiner however if the DeSmet coach had the pereption of Ahearn as you say why would he bring him back and trot him out infront of his campers? Would he do this if Ahearn wasn't a good role model for DeSmet? Your theory that all coaches have former players come back and give a speech and run a few drills is false they do not. Especially if the former coach has the perception of a player you say he does.

I have no idea what a banquet has to do with recruiting Ahearn but if you say it does I will believe you.

Now let me get this straight, you are blaming DeSmets attendace fiqures on Ahearn? When was the last time you attended a game at DeSmet? How were DeSmet's attendance fiqures last year? Now it is all making sense to me....maybe DeSmet's attendance fiqures are the reason we are not offering Brandenberg.

"People are still complaining that SLU didn't give this kid an offer, but there's a lot more that goes into it than free throws and three point shooting."

Like what? Defense? I would have given him a scholarship just to shot freethrows and be a zone buster. Sure haven't needed those things the last couple years. I like playing in the 30's don't you?

Finally, are you saying the other kids on MSU deserve the NCAA snub because Ahearn played poorly in the MVC Tournament?

Now it is all coming together, speeches, demonstrations, banquets, attendance, free throws, 3PT shooting, NCAA Snubs.

Your right,Pistol, maybe we should have passed on the leading scorer in the MVC and the kid that has led the nation in freethrows.

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Hardball, I'm not saying that Ahearn wouldn't have worked out well at SLU. Maybe we should have taken him, and maybe he would have had a good career here. But I was pointing out a number of things people seem to have forgotten. There were some question marks with this kid, and that's why SLU went with Darren Clarke instead, who seemed to have a bigger upside a few years ago. Now that looks like a mistake, but it wasn't an unreasonable decision at the time.

I was in the stands for multiple games that DeSmet played in during Blake's senior year. I asked people why there were so few DeSmet students at these games, and a couple nearby DeSmet alums with brothers in the senior class started a discussion about how Blake alienated teammates and classmates with his selfishness and inability to get along with anyone. DeSmet's attendance from other schools, parents, and outside fans wasn't affected- it was the senior class that wasn't showing up.

You seem to think I made a number of unrelated personal stabs at Ahearn, but everything I stated was fact and a reaction to the failure of people on this board to let it go. He's having a nice career at MSU, but there were many reasons SLU passed on him. Don't base decisions about players based on what you see at camps (the banquet comment had to do with posts from last week where people were judging SLU players based on meeting them briefly at the banquet). I lump them together because they are events in which programs have to present a certain image to the public.

The reason I gave all of these examples is to show that recruiting kids is more than statistics and what they do on the floor. Blake seemed nice when he was teaching kids how to shoot free throws, but he somehow managed not to make any friends on his team and in his class in high school. Gee, that might be a red flag. Another big recruiting decision has to do with parents, and his dad is a colossal jerk- try to avoid sitting around him at games. The point of this all is to just keep in mind that coaches know things that fans don't and have to make character decisions as well, and maybe this had something to do with why SLU passed on Ahearn.

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Pistol, I too remember all that going down. Also, didnt Blake's Dad hold him back at least a year? I heard a rumor that the sole reason this was done waw because his Dad thought it would improve his chances on the basketball court of getting a D1 scholarship. So much for academics i guess. Nothing like a 21 year old college freshman.

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Blake was set to graduate 8th grade and had gained acceptance at Chaminade, but his dad held him back so he could be more physically ready for high school ball, and thus have a better chance at a college scholarship in the future. After turning down Chaminade's acceptance letter the previous year, school policy wouldn't admit him again, so Blake went to DeSmet for his "freshman" year of high school. Word spread around the MCC pretty fast, and the other four schools in the conference were merciless with the "3rd year sophomore," "4th year junior," and "5th year senior" cheers.

Though this practice isn't as uncommon as it should be because of overbearing sports parents, it had to be a humbling experience to take eighth grade courses all over again after passing everything the first time. It's probably a pretty good way to stunt social development as well.

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To add in my two cents, I also heard Ahearn was a pain to deal with at DeSmet. He was not a team player and didn't listen well to the coaches. I heard this from someone within the program and didn't know if I should believe it or not, but some of you on the board seemed to have heard similar. So it is all adding up for me. And if you remember, he didn't exactly get along with the coaches early in his career at SMS. Oh well, he still would have been a fine player at SLU but that is in the past and has been rehashed too much on this board. I just don't think Steiner is holding any ill will towards SLU because of the Ahearn situation. And if you listened to Cusamano's show a few weeks back, he said SLU was really pursuing Brandenberg hard.

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