Athletic Scholarships

[courtside]

Several P4 programs have announced they will fully fund every roster position under the new roster limits. 

Examples: In baseball this is 34 full scholarships. In softball, this is 25 full scholarships. In soccer, this is 28 full scholarships. 

https://x.com/rossdellenger/status/1927465128284311981?s=46

[HoosierPal]

Oklahoma is firing 15 employees in its Athletic Department due to the upcoming revenue sharing.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-athletic-department-staff-layoffs-revenue-sharing-athletes-joe-castiglione-nil/article_771a162e-bbdb-45b2-ae8f-dd166f2db979.html

[courtside]

11 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Oklahoma is firing 15 employees in its Athletic Department due to the upcoming revenue sharing.

https://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-athletic-department-staff-layoffs-revenue-sharing-athletes-joe-castiglione-nil/article_771a162e-bbdb-45b2-ae8f-dd166f2db979.html

And those examples will only get worse as the SEC and Big Ten pursue private equity deals. Few good things come from private equity. Unless of course, one works at a private equity firm. 

“While they are against these super league ideas, both the SEC and the Big Ten are exploring a private equity or private capital infusion. Big Ten administrators received presentations last week at their spring meetings from four firms jockeying to purchase a piece of the conference.”

SEC officials are using Goldman Sachs, a multinational investment bank and financial services company, to further examine the concept.

Even the richest need financial help.

The last line, well, that’s not necessarily the case. Let’s say a private equity firm makes 2% of the money under management plus 20% of the profits. (And that doesn’t some consider “other” possible fees) For a very similar return from 2010-2020, and for a slightly less return in the years since, one could have purchased shares in an index fund without the management fee and without the profit sharing. And this is using private equity’s own data. Some outlets such as the Financial Times would argue this is being generous too. 

But for now, some P4 programs are saying they will fully fund all Olympic sport increased scholarship numbers. There will be some wide discrepancies even within P4 programs. Initially, the educated guess was that P4 programs would fund on average perhaps 70% of full Olympic sport scholarships. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football/article/with-college-sports-in-limbo-and-key-issues-coming-to-a-head-the-spotlight-is-on-the-sec-its-going-to-get-heated-130018106.html

[OkieBilliken]

My hope is that the spending continues to explode for football players, so much so that the Power 5 has to reduce costs in other areas of their Athletic Department.    There is only so much revenue they can get from their alumni.   Not to mention that television rating for the expanded playoffs where extremely disappointing.  I don't think they will be able to rely on ever-increasing TV revenue as part of their budgets.  I hope they continue to throw everything they can at their football teams to the point of neglecting everything else.  If some school signs an $8 million dollar QB, then the next 5* will cost $8.5.    If any school allows private equity to take over their AD I am pretty sure it will end very badly.    I hope it happens.  Private equity is usually the worst thing that can happen to the end-user experience.  

My favorite college team other than SLU is the Univ of Florida.   I buy tickets to several of their sports and generally root for them.   Their gameday environment is excellent and their staff/athletes are pretty friendly and likeable.  I would never donate to that organization any more that I would donate to the St. Louis Cardinals.  Its a professional enterprise.  

You cant really count on the Power Conference leaders to make thoughtful decisions.    These are the same people who send their volleyball team from Palo Alto to a midweek conference game in Miami with no shame.  It seems like the NCAA is single-handedly keeping the airlines in business. 

I just pray it ends well for SLU.  

[cheeseman]

19 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

My hope is that the spending continues to explode for football players, so much so that the Power 5 has to reduce costs in other areas of their Athletic Department.    There is only so much revenue they can get from their alumni.   Not to mention that television rating for the expanded playoffs where extremely disappointing.  I don't think they will be able to rely on ever-increasing TV revenue as part of their budgets.  I hope they continue to throw everything they can at their football teams to the point of neglecting everything else.  If some school signs an $8 million dollar QB, then the next 5* will cost $8.5.    If any school allows private equity to take over their AD I am pretty sure it will end very badly.    I hope it happens.  Private equity is usually the worst thing that can happen to the end-user experience.  

My favorite college team other than SLU is the Univ of Florida.   I buy tickets to several of their sports and generally root for them.   Their gameday environment is excellent and their staff/athletes are pretty friendly and likeable.  I would never donate to that organization any more that I would donate to the St. Louis Cardinals.  Its a professional enterprise.  

You cant really count on the Power Conference leaders to make thoughtful decisions.    These are the same people who send their volleyball team from Palo Alto to a midweek conference game in Miami with no shame.  It seems like the NCAA is single-handedly keeping the airlines in business. 

I just pray it ends well for SLU.  

 

Thoughts and prayers

[courtside]

On 5/28/2025 at 3:48 PM, OkieBilliken said:

My hope is that the spending continues to explode for football players, so much so that the Power 5 has to reduce costs in other areas of their Athletic Department.    There is only so much revenue they can get from their alumni.   Not to mention that television rating for the expanded playoffs where extremely disappointing.  I don't think they will be able to rely on ever-increasing TV revenue as part of their budgets.  I hope they continue to throw everything they can at their football teams to the point of neglecting everything else.  If some school signs an $8 million dollar QB, then the next 5* will cost $8.5.    If any school allows private equity to take over their AD I am pretty sure it will end very badly.    I hope it happens.  Private equity is usually the worst thing that can happen to the end-user experience.  

My favorite college team other than SLU is the Univ of Florida.   I buy tickets to several of their sports and generally root for them.   Their gameday environment is excellent and their staff/athletes are pretty friendly and likeable.  I would never donate to that organization any more that I would donate to the St. Louis Cardinals.  Its a professional enterprise.  

You cant really count on the Power Conference leaders to make thoughtful decisions.    These are the same people who send their volleyball team from Palo Alto to a midweek conference game in Miami with no shame.  It seems like the NCAA is single-handedly keeping the airlines in business. 

I just pray it ends well for SLU.  

This might be the first time someone has ever indirectly referred to Kevin O’ Sullivan as friendly and likable. Good coach? Sure. Warm and fuzzy? No. With their recent Women’s Soccer scandal, and some other things going on there, I’m not sure friendly and likable first come to mind. Good school, some good programs, with some good people, but they have their share of issues too.

As far as Athletic Scholarship funding, SLU isn’t expected to fully fund all increased scholarships in Olympic Sports, or, even cone close to it. But they will need to increase their budget and resources in some of the promising Olympic Sports, if they want to be or remain competitive long term with the better programs. 

[Old guy]

@courtside Reality is reality, and it usually is not what we hope or dream will happen, reality is what does happen and will  reflect how capable we are to afford whatever this new reality is. The lawyers are loose in court suing for any new interpretation of law they can get, they are not going to stop. The way of the lawyers and courts is forward, not what is needed or even what is possible, but what they can get passed in court.

SLU and every other school, including large State funded institutions, are in the same leaky boat trying to maintain some semblance of the status quo. The schools will not win this game, they will have to settle for whatever it is they can afford going forward. The process that starts by cutting employees to free money for legally required uses will expand until the landscape of collegiate sports becomes significantly changed, but mostly until it is affordable to the schools. 

[courtside]

On 5/30/2025 at 8:17 AM, courtside said:

This might be the first time someone has ever indirectly referred to Kevin O’ Sullivan as friendly and likable. Good coach? Sure. Warm and fuzzy? No. With their recent Women’s Soccer scandal, and some other things going on there, I’m not sure friendly and likable first come to mind. Good school, some good programs, with some good people, but they have their share of issues too.

As far as Athletic Scholarship funding, SLU isn’t expected to fully fund all increased scholarships in Olympic Sports, or, even cone close to it. But they will need to increase their budget and resources in some of the promising Olympic Sports, if they want to be or remain competitive long term with the better programs. 

https://x.com/allkindsweather/status/1929547388336623934?s=46

https://x.com/gatorsbb/status/1929648659865448914?s=46

[PharmBoy]

Has there been an announcement made by SLU showing what the scholarship limits will be for each sport?

[slu72]

On 5/28/2025 at 4:48 PM, OkieBilliken said:

 

I just pray it ends well for SLU.  

SLU’s never gonna be in one of the P5’s so we won’t face these pressures. That’s a good thing because the P5’s will for all practical purposes be professional sports teams. We and 300 other schools will be minor league semi pro teams. But that’s ok, we separate ourselves from the bigs and form new championship levels. It won’t be the end of the world. 

[Brighton]

It’s not ok, and that thinking is what has held SLU back for years. There’s no excuse for them not to be in a conference with Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, and DePaul.

 

SLU flat out prefers to be small time because that’s what the donors want.

[Lord Elrond]

1 hour ago, PharmBoy said:

Has there been an announcement made by SLU showing what the scholarship limits will be for each sport?

I have not heard that information, I would love to know it, but I don’t think the AD will release that info

[billikenfan05]

18 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

I have not heard that information, I would love to know it, but I don’t think the AD will release that info

Outside of Basketball, I don't know how much SLU will change. 

Soccer I could see them stepping up on both sides. But I don't think they'll have any interest in adding for other sports. Hendo was quoted by Stu as saying he think SLU will stay at the current number for Basbeball.

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, Brighton said:

It’s not ok, and that thinking is what has held SLU back for years. There’s no excuse for them not to be in a conference with Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, and DePaul.

 

SLU flat out prefers to be small time because that’s what the donors want.

If that is what the donors want and what they are willing to fund, where do you think the money required to move forward will come from? 

[slu72]

17 hours ago, Brighton said:

It’s not ok, and that thinking is what has held SLU back for years. There’s no excuse for them not to be in a conference with Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, and DePaul.

 

SLU flat out prefers to be small time because that’s what the donors want.

I agree about the Beast. But that seems like a pipe dream at this point. If the opportunity to get in really exists then we should pull out all the stops to be an invitee. Our history has always been as a member of a major BB conference until the A10 got depleted when X and Butler bolted. But if big time BB goes the FB route I’m not so sure even the Beast will be a major conf. I was just being realistic. Again, the Beast is our lifeline but it hasn’t been tossed. 

[HoosierPal]

23 hours ago, PharmBoy said:

Has there been an announcement made by SLU showing what the scholarship limits will be for each sport?

I have the same information you do...nothing.  I would not expect SLU to boast many, if any, scholarships with the exception of men's basketball.   Additional scholarships come at a cost to the Athletic Department.  I did the math and SLU could add an additional 219.4 schollies and be at the new Roster Limits.  I"m not sure about the financial value of each scholarship, but the SLU website lists $50K+ as tuition cost.  Just use that as a round number, fully funding all sports would cost $11M.  And even though some posters think money grows on trees, there is no reason to assume that type of money is available.

P4 schools have the dilemma of whether to fund additional scholarships or give more money to athletes.  The House P4 Rowing team or your Tennis teams, or do you pay your football and basketball teams (revenue generators) more money?  IU AD Scott Dolson went public saying that IU will not be adding scholarships, because they don't want to dilute the $20.5M cap.  [Interesting numbers Dolson gave, Football will receive 70 to 75% of the Revenue Share, men's basketball 20%, women's basketball and volleyball will get the next share of the pie, with the remainder sprinkled over the other 20 sports.]     

Of course SLU doesn't have to worry about the $20.5m cap, but this gives you a glimpse as to what is happening across the landscape. For SLU it is pay your basketball players or give that money to other non-revenue sports through scholarships.  I for one would like to see the two soccer teams get a little boost, but time will tell if that happens.

What happens this athletic season most likely will change for the subsequent seasons.  

[Lord Elrond]

40 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I have the same information you do...nothing.  I would not expect SLU to boast many, if any, scholarships with the exception of men's basketball.   Additional scholarships come at a cost to the Athletic Department.  I did the math and SLU could add an additional 219.4 schollies and be at the new Roster Limits.  I"m not sure about the financial value of each scholarship, but the SLU website lists $50K+ as tuition cost.  Just use that as a round number, fully funding all sports would cost $11M.  And even though some posters think money grows on trees, there is no reason to assume that type of money is available.

P4 schools have the dilemma of whether to fund additional scholarships or give more money to athletes.  The House P4 Rowing team or your Tennis teams, or do you pay your football and basketball teams (revenue generators) more money?  IU AD Scott Dolson went public saying that IU will not be adding scholarships, because they don't want to dilute the $20.5M cap.  [Interesting numbers Dolson gave, Football will receive 70 to 75% of the Revenue Share, men's basketball 20%, women's basketball and volleyball will get the next share of the pie, with the remainder sprinkled over the other 20 sports.]     

Of course SLU doesn't have to worry about the $20.5m cap, but this gives you a glimpse as to what is happening across the landscape. For SLU it is pay your basketball players or give that money to other non-revenue sports through scholarships.  I for one would like to see the two soccer teams get a little boost, but time will tell if that happens.

What happens this athletic season most likely will change for the subsequent seasons.  

Depends on how you do the accounting for the student athletes.  For just scholarships, the cost is minimal.  If you are kicking out a student paying full price to accommodate a student-athlete, then yes, it actually did cost SLU $50,000 in real money.  Were there any paying students refused entry to SLU last year because of athletic scholarships?  No.  Did not happen.

The other way to look at it is to say how much does it actually cost SLU in real dollar terms. Looking at the dashboard from SLU https://www.slu.edu/provost/office-of-institutional-research/institutional-data/student-enrollment.php.  Last fall there were 15,334 total students, 8669 undergrad and 6665 graduate students.  If enrollment increased by 219.4 students, then how much does it really cost SLU? Maybe a professor or 2, maybe a handful of TA’s.  This does not cost the university $11 million. Most classes have room for an additional student or two after all. Maybe some other increased incidental expenses. But it does not cost the university $11 million additional dollars to educate 220 more students. Another proof of this is that enrollment was up 130 students from the year before last. Did SLU go on a multi-million dollar hiring spree (they would have needed to spend $5 million more to cover the 130 additional students after all!)? No, there were layoffs, and the education of students went on.
 

The real issue this year is how much SLU will have to spend to pay for athletes. Using the example you gave above for IU, $20.5 mil cap, -75% for football, (which SLU does not have) leaves $5.125 Mil to match IU in spending total for athletes not on the football team.  To keep the same proportions of IU’s spending across all other sports, we get $4.1 million for men’s basketball, and $1.025 million spread out among all other student athletes. Spend that much and we match IU dollar for dollar among non-football student athletes.

[billikenfan05]

4 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Depends on how you do the accounting for the student athletes.  For just scholarships, the cost is minimal.  If you are kicking out a student paying full price to accommodate a student-athlete, then yes, it actually did cost SLU $50,000 in real money.  Were there any paying students refused entry to SLU last year because of athletic scholarships?  No.  Did not happen.

The other way to look at it is to say how much does it actually cost SLU in real dollar terms. Looking at the dashboard from SLU https://www.slu.edu/provost/office-of-institutional-research/institutional-data/student-enrollment.php.  Last fall there were 15,334 total students, 8669 undergrad and 6665 graduate students.  If enrollment increased by 219.4 students, then how much does it really cost SLU? Maybe a professor or 2, maybe a handful of TA’s.  This does not cost the university $11 million. Most classes have room for an additional student or two after all. Maybe some other increased incidental expenses. But it does not cost the university $11 million additional dollars to educate 220 more students. Another proof of this is that enrollment was up 130 students from the year before last. Did SLU go on a multi-million dollar hiring spree (they would have needed to spend $5 million more to cover the 130 additional students after all!)? No, there were layoffs, and the education of students went on.
 

The real issue this year is how much SLU will have to spend to pay for athletes. Using the example you gave above for IU, $20.5 mil cap, -75% for football, (which SLU does not have) leaves $5.125 Mil to match IU in spending total for athletes not on the football team.  To keep the same proportions of IU’s spending across all other sports, we get $4.1 million for men’s basketball, and $1.025 million spread out among all other student athletes. Spend that much and we match IU dollar for dollar among non-football student athletes.

How much a scholarship costs a university is a murky and gray discussion. It all depends on what type of scholarship and what it covers.

The cost of attendance is nothing.

Books would cost SLU.

Room & board would cost SLU. This would be something where SLU is losing the actual cost of what a non-athlete student would pay for that room

If the athletes being provided a meal plan, that would cost SLU in some way.  Not necessarily 100% of that value, however. 

Anything involving limited resources 

I don’t have the time to get more specific, there are some direct costs to the university. 

[HoosierPal]

9 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

Depends on how you do the accounting for the student athletes.  For just scholarships, the cost is minimal.  If you are kicking out a student paying full price to accommodate a student-athlete, then yes, it actually did cost SLU $50,000 in real money.  Were there any paying students refused entry to SLU last year because of athletic scholarships?  No.  Did not happen.

The other way to look at it is to say how much does it actually cost SLU in real dollar terms. Looking at the dashboard from SLU https://www.slu.edu/provost/office-of-institutional-research/institutional-data/student-enrollment.php.  Last fall there were 15,334 total students, 8669 undergrad and 6665 graduate students.  If enrollment increased by 219.4 students, then how much does it really cost SLU? Maybe a professor or 2, maybe a handful of TA’s.  This does not cost the university $11 million. Most classes have room for an additional student or two after all. Maybe some other increased incidental expenses. But it does not cost the university $11 million additional dollars to educate 220 more students. Another proof of this is that enrollment was up 130 students from the year before last. Did SLU go on a multi-million dollar hiring spree (they would have needed to spend $5 million more to cover the 130 additional students after all!)? No, there were layoffs, and the education of students went on.
 

The real issue this year is how much SLU will have to spend to pay for athletes. Using the example you gave above for IU, $20.5 mil cap, -75% for football, (which SLU does not have) leaves $5.125 Mil to match IU in spending total for athletes not on the football team.  To keep the same proportions of IU’s spending across all other sports, we get $4.1 million for men’s basketball, and $1.025 million spread out among all other student athletes. Spend that much and we match IU dollar for dollar among non-football student athletes.

I read your discourse, twice, and came to the conclusion that you know as much as I do....that is no idea what the accounting hit for athletic scholarships is to the Department.  But they aren't free.  It really doesn't matter how much they cost the Department, they do hit the bottom line of the Dept.  Are you suggesting that adding scholarships beyond the two obvious programs is no big financial deal?

I'm not sure why you think additional scholarships would be for additional students, students not already on SLU athletic teams. Those athletes, who could potentially receive a scholarship, are already enrolled.  But that really doesn't matter.  The point is after men's basketball's +2, their likely won't be any additional schollies this athletic year.

Who is suggesting that a non-athlete student gets kicked out because an athlete gets a scholarship? That makes no sense.

The Undergraduate Cost Of Attendance is listed on the SLU Website as $81,000. There are a lot of variables in that figure.  This is not the cost to the university, it is the cost to the student.  If you know that is wrong you should report that to the university. Yes, many students receive financial assistance and very few pay this full load.   https://www.slu.edu/financial-aid/tuition-and-costs/cost-of-attendance.php  Are each of the 15 men's and 15 women's hoop scholarships charged to the basketball program at $81,000?  No.  What the bottom line hit to the Dept is unknown.  But there is a hit.

Like it or not, Coach Schertz's basketball team will get the bulk of the Revenue Sharing bucket.  Tillett reported today in Stu's article that she is getting some Revenue which helped in recruiting the transfer portal.  In January, VCU reported that they will spend around $5million on Revenue Sharing.  They didn't detail how it would be allocated.  In March George Mason reported that their figure was $3million for Men's basketball.  They mentioned no other sports nor additional scholarships.

 

[Lord Elrond]

The major real cost to the University going forward, in terms of real money SLU must pay out, is going to be the revenue sharing part of the equation. While it appears we are roughly competitive this year in spending for Men’s basketball alone (who really knows after all, it’s just guessing since there’s no real numbers being given out), just how much will it rise next year? If this goes up at the same trajectory as the growth in NIL spending went in the past few years, this could get scary really quickly. And it’s not like SLU is driving the cost increases, they will have to respond to what the big schools are doing, just like NIL over the past few years.