slu72 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 no one's making comment on the article about Varner possibly starting Friday night. Wasn't the general consensus he'd be lucky to log 7-8 mpg's which would make him about the ninth man. Based on his performances in the exhibitions what's the consensus now? Isn't his defense suspect? His desire to scrap for boards? I'm sure if someone posted four weeks ago and said RV was our starting #4 there would have been a lot of moaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I am moaning,but give the guy credit for earning the job. I do believe if he is still playing big min. 12 games from now we can't be a good basketball team. That doesn't mean we can't be a winning team,but we can't be a good team. To be good we have to have I/O play at a high level. Is Isik capable of being a big time college player? Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I am moaning and have been moaning. Varner playing heavy minutes, much less starting is a terrible sign. If Izik cannot log some minutes and give us 10 points a game we will be a sub .500 team easily with our tough schedule. You can complain about Varner, and I will be, but somone has got to outplay him and it shouldn't that hard to do so. No one has yet and that is disturbing. If Varner is still in the starting five at the end of the year, SLU will win no more than 12 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUDrew Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I couldn't agree more. On the one hand you have to hand it to him for earning the starting job, but what does that say about Ohanon? talent wise, Ohanon and Varner are not even close. Ohanon, to this point, has not shown that he has the toughness to play major college basketball. I sure hope to God he finds it, or we will be terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjray Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I'd much rather see us go with a 3 guard lineup starting Clarke than Varner at 4 / Sloan at 3. I suppose with Reggie ineligible, that leaves us too thin in the backcourt, thus, the decision to start this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Ouch!! I agree, unless Ross has been training with Bond's trainer - taking steriods - he could not have improved that much. He is slow, won't mix it up under the boards, and his shooting touch while good in practice always seems to be forgotten during games. I am starting to get worried about IO - he has had enough time to adjust to college bb by now. The sprained ankle(s) issue has been raised but I wonder if he is going to be one of the players that never seem to figure it out and make the transition. I agree if he continues to be a disappointment over these next 3-4 games then we are in big trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 What in the world brings all of this negative and nasty commentary about Varner. I have been to practice and the two exhibition games and I have seen a player that the coaches believe will be an important part of our team. As Jason G. said at the Billiken Club meeting last night--Varner is very important to what we want to do--he is by far our best screener in the offense--he playes great positional defense (he is not great when he has to clase someone all over the floor but he is a very good low post defender because he is strong and holds his position). In addition, particularly when he plays the 5, his outside shooting ability brings the opposing center away from the basket and as of now he is our best outside shooter in game situations. His rotation is excellent and the fundamentals of his shot allow for soft bounces--a sign of a good shooter. As coach said after the last game the players must earn their minutes by playing hard in practice. Varner has earned every minute that he will play. IO has had ankle problems and was out of sync in the last game. I think he will continue to develop but his confidence level is down and his defense is still less than stellar. Remember that the coach is playing with a very short bench--one missing scholarship--one redshirt and two suspended players. that leaves very few options for the first three games. We will have to grind out wins with defense and hustle until we get Bryant back. IO and Clarke will need to play important minutes off the bench. The coaching staff are not idiots as a person would conclude they must be if you read these posts--they know and recognize the strengths and weaknesses of this team. Once we get Clarke and Ian back in the rotation things will be much different. From what was said last night Ian is a very willing worker and he is improving day by day. My guess is that by mid Feb. he will be a key guy in the rotation and Varner's time will be much more limited. But for now lets support the team AND Varner while we attempt to win games with limited personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Majerus Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Good post, but I don't think you can get through to the negative bashers. At least you made the effort, and I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I was not a Varner fan before practice even really started and posted on Tuesday that my exasperation should not be taken out on Varner, but rather IO at this point. I don't think Varner was ever expected to be much and to contribute on a limited basis. Well, if anything he is doing that and more. IO on the other hand is not living up to the billing. I know there have been reasons and I will patiently wait, but up to this point regardless of the situation, he hasn't contributed much. I think the message that a lot of people were trying to get across, is that if Varner is seeing a lot of time come mid season, then the year's been a disappointment. Sure, Ross works hard and his effort is appreciated, but every player only has so much ability. If Ross plays up to his ability and beyond, he is till only so good. So, if he is getting a lot of minutes mid season, then others aren't trying, aren't playing well, etc. And if that is the case, and Ross is outplaying others on our team then when we face conference teams we are in trouble. I don't think that point is too harsh and a direct bash on Varner. I think if anything it's as shot on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Why do some people want no critcism to be made against Varner? When you have to point out that a player sets good screens and that is the best compliment you can give him what does that say? While an integral part of our offense it requires little to no skill. The assertion that Varner is our best 3 point shooter is even worse. It may be true, and if it is this team is in trouble. Varner is a hard worker, a decent shooter but that is it. He is a good practice player, but if a player like Ross is getting large amounts of playing time, we are not going to be very good. This is not criticism personally to Ross, it is an indictment of the team and the couple of underachievers we have on the roster. Ross is Ross, he is never going to be Larry Bird or even Eddie Bird. He is an indicator of how much talent we have on the team, if he is on the bench than we have some decent talent and players using that talent, if he is playing alot we have guys not living up tp potential or we very short on skilled players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Tonka, thanks for your well put explanation. For those of you who think the team will be better if Ross is playing more minutes based on two exhibition games and some practices all I have to say is where have you been the last two years? His play over that period has not shown he is of starting caliber. Now granted anybody can get better but all we have to go on is what we have seen over the long term not some short period of time. I hope Ross is as good as a couple of you seem to think he is. Tonka's point about if we do not have others who can beat Ross out then we will be disappointed in our season is not a knock on Ross - he is what he is - but a knock on the others for not stepping up. Time will only tell about IO but I am still starting to feel uneasy about what we really have in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Until Izik's sprained ankles heal, Varner will have to start. His whole offensive game is predicated on his ability to slash and he can't do that effectively right now. Hopefully Izik will be 100% by the West Virginia game because he owned them last year. Easy Ike played great the last three months and the first exhibition game. I'm not going to give up on him because of one game where he was injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Ridiculous is now an understatement. You say that "if Varner is seeing a lot of time come mid season then the year's been a disappointment" What a joke! If the team is winning at mid season and it continues to win then the year is a great success regardless of who is playing. The idea is to win games--it is not to win games with certain people playing the big minutes. Have you been to a game? Have you been to parctice? If you have then you must realize that coach Brad looks to Varner for a contribution on both ends of the court. I would suspect that the coach has a better feel for the game and his team than the "coaches" on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 The key is whether we win the games, not who plays. Varner has strengths and weaknesses the same as every player on the roster. why are you so caught up in the idea that Varner can't play? Have you seen him play this year? He is markedly better and much stronger. He plays hardnosed ball like sloan, Frericks, Drejaj and Fischer. He will probably sit a lot once Ian gets eligilbe. But if he proves with his play that he deserves to play then let's have him on the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Your problem is that you are not comprehending what is being said - I did say it is possible that Ross improved but all we have to go on is what we have seen over the past 2 years - I will always look at someone's long term track record over any short term play. Water always seeks its own level. Ross has not shown in the past that he is starter caliber for a good program. So if your team has non starting caliber people playing then you are going to get that kind of a record. Brad has who he has and he is not going to come out and say that Ross or any player is not good - that is counterproductive. He may say things like we have to get better at whatever but that is as far as a coach is going to go. Your contention of only our record will matter is correct but if you have role players starting your record will reflect it. 3 Star's point that IO is hurt and Ross is going to get more minutes because of it may very well be true but that does not mean that Ross will fill all the needs - he is just who we have at this point. The only point I am making and others is that Ross is a role player and we need to have starter quality people playing the bulk of the minutes not role players. I heard a coach once tell parents that while he admires those players who hustle all the time and get the most out of their abilities, a team full of them will hustle you right in to a losing record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Certainly Coach has a better feel for the game, but that's not why Varner will be getting minutes in the beginning. It's because of lack of options. You still are missing the point. I'm not trashing Varner, I'm only saying if he is getting a lot of minutes, then we could be in trouble. You're right, wins are the most important thing. That being said I don't care if the Billiken mascot plays center and two of the Baby Blues play guard positions. As long as they are winning - great! But, is that a realistic expectation - no! Just as Varner playing a lot of minutes and us winning a lot of games are not realistic. Yes, I have been to a practice and both exhibition games as well as all but one home game since Varner has been a Billiken. And, it's because of that, that I say these things. If you think Varner should and can stand up to some real competition as the season progresses then great. I guess time will tell. IMO, though Varner is not a better player then some of our other options once everybody is up and playing. If he is, then like it has been stated before, we're in trouble and to add to that we will be again next year - because the players that are supposed to be who we were told they are - apparently aren't just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikan Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 You have obviously never played or coached basketball. Your description of what the coach said is exactly the opposite of what I have believed in for years. I'll take hard working overachievers any day over lazy wasted talent. The ultimate goal is to get great players and get them to play hard and "overachieve" but I will always take a hard working overachiever because those great players are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mobile-iken Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Thank you 3 Star, my sentiments exactly! Those with questions on Izik, quit panicking, he'll be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufanskip Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I agree that if Ross is getting significant minutes on a regular basis we are probably in trouble. Though I think some people are going a little overboard with their assesment off IO. He had a bad game and was injured, to compound that he was probably playing against one of the best defensive players he will see this year. The guy was a shot blocking machine. Playing against him was probably a blessing in disguise as after watching the game Brad will teach him how to approach a taller player of that skill level. We shot badly ... ok, it was one exhibition game. Experience tells us that JF, CS, and AD are all better 3 point shooters and probably will not shoot that badly as a team again this year. Add to that RB will be playing significant guard minutes after the 1st 3 games. Friday will give us a better chance to assess where they are as a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bballvr Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Varner is as good as SLU is going to get ... you are a mid major school with wanna-be aspirations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 That is an interesting comment, since he is probably the least athletic of the group, but will contribute very well the team concept we use here at SLU. We'll just have to see how well we do over the season. It is interesting how year after year we are picked to finish low in the league pre season poll, and consistently end up higher than everyone thought. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts, I believe I once read. Might be a good definition of TEAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Does anyone have the link to the "You are an idiot! ha, ha, ha....." page? Bballvr deserves it more than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 And what basketball powerhouse do you represent making such comments like that? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Let me quote Coach Soderberg and his thinking on Ross Varner per last seasons media guide. "You can't have a team of 12 Ross Varners but you need at least one guiy like that on every team." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 What round do you guys think Varner will go in the NBA draft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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