Men's Basketball Revenue

[SluSignGuy]

Numbers I thought the board would find interesting: Revenue of Mens Basketball Programs that do not have football teams.

Found via a Tweet from West Pine Bills. 

 

West Pine Bills Tweet Here

https://twitter.com/WestPineBills/status/1658565464254042127

[HoosierPal]

20 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

Numbers I thought the board would find interesting: Revenue of Mens Basketball Programs that do not have football teams.

Found via a Tweet from West Pine Bills. 

 

West Pine Bills Tweet Here

https://twitter.com/WestPineBills/status/1658565464254042127

Interesting this is revenue.  What are the sources?  NCAA Tourney Shares, TV dollars, ticket sales, donations....and ....? 

The most interesting entry is DePaul, so far behind in the Big East.

[JMM28]

9 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

The most interesting entry is DePaul, so far behind in the Big East.

SLU being ahead of DePaul is really impressive considering DePaul gets a $3,000,000 payout from the Big East each year. SLU gets kibble from the A10's non existent revenue steams. 

[billikenfan05]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting this is revenue.  What are the sources?  NCAA Tourney Shares, TV dollars, ticket sales, donations....and ....? 

The most interesting entry is DePaul, so far behind in the Big East.

Is this a bit?

[Cowboy II]

-for me the jaw droppers are how are we $8.4mil behind X and how does Marq get $23.4? holy smokes

[HoosierPal]

41 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

SLU being ahead of DePaul is really impressive considering DePaul gets a $3,000,000 payout from the Big East each year. SLU gets kibble from the A10's non existent revenue steams. 

Ticket sales aren't much.  "DePaul's home attendance figures from last season finished at 60,671 at Wintrust Arena, which averaged out to 4,045 per game."  

[johnbj14]

28 minutes ago, Cowboy II said:

-for me the jaw droppers are how are we $8.4mil behind X and how does Marq get $23.4? holy smokes

Marquette plays in an NBA arena and averages 14,633 fans per game. Assuming an average ticket price of 35 bucks a seat, which is probably a bit low, that’s 9.2 million in revenue right there. Considering they get good money from Jordan Brand as one of their signature schools, Big East TV deals, and have a huge donor base, that 23.4 number isn’t surprising in the slightest. 

[courtside]

2 hours ago, SluSignGuy said:

Numbers I thought the board would find interesting: Revenue of Mens Basketball Programs that do not have football teams.

Found via a Tweet from West Pine Bills. 

 

West Pine Bills Tweet Here

https://twitter.com/WestPineBills/status/1658565464254042127

This is the link to the Department of Education, where one can look up any school by following the prompts. I believe Brian posted it in a recent discussion we had on the topic:

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

[Lord Elrond]

So we are #9 in terms of revenue generated among all D1 schools that don’t have a Football program? That’s not bad.  More interesting was total revenue from all sports:

Total Revenues by Team 

---

Varsity Teams	Men's Teams	Women's Teams	Total
Basketball	$7,623,032	$3,179,359	$10,802,391
Total Revenues of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined	$3,779,586	$5,100,829	$8,880,415
Total Revenues Men's and Women's Teams	$11,402,618	$8,280,188	$19,682,806
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport	N/A	N/A	$11,888,251
Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport)	N/A	N/A	$31,571,057

[slu72]

What’s most surprising is Dayton not in the top 10. Every UD game’s a sell out of 12000 +. What’s a ticket cost? Plus they travel like a P5. I’d wager they travel better than any Beast team other than UConn and Nova. Was it because they do have a low level FB team? I guess the same is true for Nova not being listed. 

[Lord Elrond]

For those interested, Dayton does generate a lot more revenue from men’s basketball than we do, but they weren’t on that list because they have a football team. I guess football doesn’t generate a lot of revenue unless you are a big time program I guess. Numbers for Dayton:

Total Revenues by Team 

---

Varsity Teams	Men's Teams	Women's Teams	Total
Basketball	$16,878,904	$1,618,489	$18,497,393
Football	$167,000	N/A	$167,000
Total Revenues of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined	$2,006,949	$2,478,402	$4,485,351
Total Revenues Men's and Women's Teams	$19,052,853	$4,096,891	$23,149,744
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport	N/A	N/A	$10,893,798
Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport)	N/A	N/A	$34,043,542

[slu72]

Face it, if SLU was a Beast member our $$’d would probably double. Every team we’d play is a Catholic rival because they are nationally known. 

[Taj79]

Colleges with lower level football teams like Dayton include ...... Butler, Georgetown, Fordham, Richmond, Drake, Holy Cross, Bill & Mare and of course ..... Notre Dame.

[Dr. Holly Hills]

How does providence generate that much revenue?!?  If we actually made the tournament more than twice a decade and stopped playing home games against lasalle and Duquesne, we could compete financially with those teams.

[Lord Elrond]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

How does providence generate that much revenue?!?  If we actually made the tournament more than twice a decade and stopped playing home games against lasalle and Duquesne, we could compete financially with those teams.

They averaged 10,608 per game, we only averaged 6,694 per game. Not sure what they averaged per ticket, but 4000 more fans per game adds up on the revenue side

[Old guy]

5 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

So we are #9 in terms of revenue generated among all D1 schools that don’t have a Football program? That’s not bad.  More interesting was total revenue from all sports:

Total Revenues by Team 

---

Varsity Teams	Men's Teams	Women's Teams	Total
Basketball	$7,623,032	$3,179,359	$10,802,391
Total Revenues of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined	$3,779,586	$5,100,829	$8,880,415
Total Revenues Men's and Women's Teams	$11,402,618	$8,280,188	$19,682,806
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport	N/A	N/A	$11,888,251
Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport)	N/A	N/A	$31,571,057

If you think about it, the amount of revenue generated shows only one side of the overall financial picture, the other side is expenses. The important number, which is not supplied in these figures is the net income generated overall, which can then be partitioned by sport, by team gender, etc. It is important to realize that a given school's athletic program may generate a fair amount of revenue and still generate very little income or evn loses. Gross revenue by itself is not a meaningful measurement of the financial health of any given Athletic Department. 

 

[Brighton]

But we’re told that SLU can’t do better than what they currently have.

[Brighton]

10 hours ago, slu72 said:

What’s most surprising is Dayton not in the top 10. Every UD game’s a sell out of 12000 +. What’s a ticket cost? Plus they travel like a P5. I’d wager they travel better than any Beast team other than UConn and Nova. Was it because they do have a low level FB team? I guess the same is true for Nova not being listed. 

FCS is under the D1 umbrella but is second tier ala Lindenwood.

[Lord Elrond]

6 hours ago, Old guy said:

If you think about it, the amount of revenue generated shows only one side of the overall financial picture, the other side is expenses. The important number, which is not supplied in these figures is the net income generated overall, which can then be partitioned by sport, by team gender, etc. It is important to realize that a given school's athletic program may generate a fair amount of revenue and still generate very little income or evn loses. Gross revenue by itself is not a meaningful measurement of the financial health of any given Athletic Department. 

 

All the expenses are also listed there on that website, broken out by sport. It’s a US gov website, based on info provided by the schools. You can pull it up per school, or compare 4 at a time

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

[thatskablamo]

14 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Ticket sales aren't much.  "DePaul's home attendance figures from last season finished at 60,671 at Wintrust Arena, which averaged out to 4,045 per game."  

Just build an on campus arena, already, DePaul. The Vincentians have money coming out of their ears. 18 miles between campus and Rosemont in the Meyer days and always great crowds. 7 miles from campus to McCormick center area / Wintrust and hardly a soul. How the mighty have fallen…

[ARon]

12 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

They averaged 10,608 per game, we only averaged 6,694 per game. Not sure what they averaged per ticket, but 4000 more fans per game adds up on the revenue side

Also all their alumna are wealthy Manhattanites.

[Lord Elrond]

3 minutes ago, ARon said:

Also all their alumna are wealthy Manhattanites.

Plus what else is there to do in Providence?  No professional teams in town, the other major college teams are an Ivy League school (Brown) and URI (but you have to find out where South Kingston is to see them). Probably can charge more per seat and get more for ads in the arena, etc…

[Lord Elrond]

So I put the information reported by each A10 university for Men’s Basketball just to see where we stand. The information is required to be reported to the Dept of Education by each school. The reporting period is 7/1/21 to 6/30/22 (makes sense from a school year point of view), so it doesn’t include last season, but the year before.  They don’t break out recruiting by sport, just total recruiting for all men’s sports, so while I sense the bulk is spent on men’s basketball, there’s no way to break it out from what they show. If anyone wants to pull it up, it’s on the Department of Education website at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/  I sorted by Total Revenue MBB

Mens Basketball A10
University	Total Recruiting Expenses (all Men's Sports)	Total Operating Expenses MBB	Total Expenses MBB	Total Revenue MBB	Grand Revenue Total all Teams	Has Football Team
University of Dayton	$212,132	$1,961,251	$8,657,248	$16,878,904	$34,043,542	Yes
VCU	$332,224	$1,110,245	$7,121,576	$8,598,515	$37,305,038	No
Saint Louis University	$242,563	$1,309,298	$7,623,032	$7,623,032	$31,571,057	No
Fordham University	$757,946	$1,190,605	$6,196,401	$6,196,401	$39,567,321	Yes
University of Richmond	$322,998	$1,391,668	$5,482,607	$5,482,607	$40,377,925	Yes
Duquesne University	$301,971	$1,274,906	$5,464,054	$5,464,054	$24,476,457	Yes
Saint Joseph's University	$137,032	$1,056,859	$5,251,050	$5,251,050	$22,989,452	No
George Mason University	$225,459	$1,237,519	$5,072,246	$5,072,246	$28,196,432	No
University of Rhode Island	$314,879	$1,561,198	$5,082,239	$4,918,314	$33,051,719	Yes
George Washington University	$152,104	$700,635	$4,911,135	$4,911,135	$30,473,846	No
Loyola Chicago University	$216,701	$1,059,313	$4,536,549	$4,536,549	$22,380,462	No
University of Massachusetts - Amherst	$592,751	$770,354	$4,454,190	$4,454,190	$43,882,480	Yes
St Bonaventure University	$194,472	$1,046,620	$4,239,342	$4,239,342	$16,370,515	No
Davidson College	$271,037	$884,763	$3,946,868	$3,738,010	$24,247,206	Yes
LaSalle University	$89,227	$725,035	$3,222,316	$3,222,316	$15,010,308	No

 

[Box and Won]

LaSalle could cut down on their operating expenses by turning off the pool pump during games.

Fordham must be taking every recruit to Peter Luger's.

[Lord Elrond]

Fordham really surprised me. You can’t say they aren’t spending money to try to be competitive. Since this didn’t include last season, you could question if they were getting a good return on their investment.