Brock Vice de-commits

[slu72]

On 4/14/2023 at 1:44 PM, TheA_Bomb said:

How often have you seen a de-commit re-commit? 

Forte finally delivers on a couple recruits and 1 de-commits.  Is CJ Noland on de-commit watch now?

 

Probably de-committed because of negative message board posters.  He'll end up at a School with really positive fans. 

Turnbull decommitted from Butler then recommitted. I’m sure there are other cases. 

[WVBilliken]

51 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Turnbull decommitted from Butler then recommitted. I’m sure there are other cases. 

Believe there was a head coaching change in that case.  And there was no NIL as well.

[TheA_Bomb]

It's rare. 

[Taj79]

Tommie Liddell from SLU to UNLV back to SLU.  Times, however, have changed.  It's been said many times a coach has to re-recruit his roster every year now with NIL and the portal.  What happened in the past is more likely going to become ancinet history or "remember when."  

[cgeldmacher]

Has it been confirmed that we granted him his release?  I haven't heard that we have.  I only saw that he requested a release.  I know the popular opinion is that if a kid asks for a release you should give it to him, but what would be so bad about saying "No?"  He stays, plays a year, knows that he has to showcase his skills if he wants to transfer somewhere else next year.  Then he leaves.  Also, you've sent the message that if you commit to SLU plan on being here at least a year.  If a recruit has a problem with the policy of not granting releases from commitments, we probably don't want that kid anyway.

[BilliesBy40]

3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Has it been confirmed that we granted him his release?  I haven't heard that we have.  I only saw that he requested a release.  I know the popular opinion is that if a kid asks for a release you should give it to him, but what would be so bad about saying "No?"  He stays, plays a year, knows that he has to showcase his skills if he wants to transfer somewhere else next year.  Then he leaves.  Also, you've sent the message that if you commit to SLU plan on being here at least a year.  If a recruit has a problem with the policy of not granting releases from commitments, we probably don't want that kid anyway.

Using that logic, why do we want Vice?

[slu72]

12 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Using that logic, why do we want Vice?

Not sure how committed  he’d be if we said no. We don’t need malcontents. 

[slufan13]

Ford just said last week that he wants kids who want to be here. So I would assume he'll give him his release 

[JMM28]

47 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Has it been confirmed that we granted him his release?  I haven't heard that we have.  I only saw that he requested a release.  I know the popular opinion is that if a kid asks for a release you should give it to him, but what would be so bad about saying "No?"  He stays, plays a year, knows that he has to showcase his skills if he wants to transfer somewhere else next year.  Then he leaves.  Also, you've sent the message that if you commit to SLU plan on being here at least a year.  If a recruit has a problem with the policy of not granting releases from commitments, we probably don't want that kid anyway.

That sounds like a terrible idea. 

[WVBilliken]

28 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Not sure how committed  he’d be if we said no. We don’t need malcontents. 

Given he doesn't want to be at SLU, it would seem if not granted his release, he would just go the JC route or Prep school route.

[dlarry]

Not letting a kid out of a commitment is a good way to hurt recruiting down the road. 
Why would anybody commit here if the knew our staff would do that? 
 

Let him go on his way and make him regret leaving by becoming a better program than his new school. 

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Not letting a kid out of a commitment is a good way to hurt recruiting down the road. 
Why would anybody commit here if the knew our staff would do that? 
 

Let him go on his way and make him regret leaving by becoming a better program than his new school. 

ya zero chance this happens, ever. 

[Dr Bird]

I've moved on with respect to Vice.  His family situation changed and his recruiter left. 

Let's see what we have with Zhang and perhaps 1-2 TBD transfers.

Whether AD May says it publicly or not, CF knows this is an important year. 

To help me get through the offseason,  I'm assuming we'll have some pleasant surprises. 

[MusicCityBilliken]

4 hours ago, dlarry said:

Not letting a kid out of a commitment is a good way to hurt recruiting down the road. 
Why would anybody commit here if the knew our staff would do that? 
 

Let him go on his way and make him regret leaving by becoming a better program than his new school. 

Didn't Pepperdine have issues with Josh Fisher's transfer?

I always felt bad when Ryan Hollins de-committed.

[Billiken Rich]

4 hours ago, Dr Bird said:

I've moved on with respect to Vice.  His family situation changed and his recruiter left. 

Let's see what we have with Zhang and perhaps 1-2 TBD transfers.

Whether AD May says it publicly or not, CF knows this is an important year. 

To help me get through the offseason,  I'm assuming we'll have some pleasant surprises. 

Travis has always recruited his ass off.  I've no doubt this offseason will be any different.......

[SluSignGuy]

2 hours ago, MusicCityBilliken said:

Didn't Pepperdine have issues with Josh Fisher's transfer?

I always felt bad when Ryan Hollins de-committed.

I think Pepperdine originally kept him from playing 4 years, but after he played 3, he appealed and got his 4th year back...(but not 100% on this)

[thetorch]

54 minutes ago, SluSignGuy said:

I think Pepperdine originally kept him from playing 4 years, but after he played 3, he appealed and got his 4th year back...(but not 100% on this)

This is true. Pepperdine blocked his eligibility. Fisher had to appeal and won.

[SLU_Nick]

8 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Travis has always recruited his ass off.  I've no doubt this offseason will be any different.......

NIL era seems to have Travis flummoxed.  

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

2 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

flummoxed

This is a good word to describe his facial expressions courtside.

[DOC]

3 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

NIL era seems to have Travis flummoxed.  

If there’s anything most everyone agrees on is Ford’s ability to recruit. You may not like the roster composition or the players he recruits, but he’s been very good at it. If we don’t get the players we need, it has  nothing to do with Ford and everything to do with NIL funds. Remember what Tate said about recruiting. It’s all about the money. 

[brianstl]

21 minutes ago, DOC said:

If there’s anything most everyone agrees on is Ford’s ability to recruit. You may not like the roster composition or the players he recruits, but he’s been very good at it. If we don’t get the players we need, it has  nothing to do with Ford and everything to do with NIL funds. Remember what Tate said about recruiting. It’s all about the money. 

What is the use of a paying big bucks to great recruiter as your head coach when the importance of that skill has been minimized?

Let us all accept that it isn’t Ford’s fault.  The problem is that you have a stagecoach driver leading your program in the self driving car era.  It is the program wasting its own and donors money on something that is now obsolete.

[TheA_Bomb]

You may have noticed that I've been critical of Ford, however, I don't blame him for all the roster/recruiting turmoil right now.  It's the new normal.  Look at my other alma mater, Texas.  Texas went to the Elite 8 under interim coach, all players came out in support of making the coach permanent to include past players KD etc.  Terry gets the job, top PG to be Arterio Morris goes into portal, 2 top players testing draft waters, 1 top recruit decides to go the LoMelo Ball route to the Australian NBL, 1 top recruit decommits.  Now I don't know, but I suspect Texas has more NIL $$$ than SLU.  So money may help but not always, success may help but not always. It's just crazy right now.

What I do hold the coach accountable for is the end result.  They have to navigate this new normal and get the players that fit their "system" and win.  All coaches no matter the level are dealing with it so it's not an excuse for not achieving results.

[billiken_roy]

i would guess the vast majority of programs dont know how to utilize the NiL effectively.   particularly those that will have less than an unlimited supply of cash.  until that shakes out we are going to see wild turmoil.   all these players think they deserve the lottery.   hell maybe they do.   but no one knows how to use it or what limits are there.   

[DOC]

47 minutes ago, brianstl said:

What is the use of a paying big bucks to great recruiter as your head coach when the importance of that skill has been minimized?

Let us all accept that it isn’t Ford’s fault.  The problem is that you have a stagecoach driver leading your program in the self driving car era.  It is the program wasting its own and donors money on something that is now obsolete.

I agree. Ford should have his salary reduced to keep his job and Tate should be gone if he is correct and it's all about the money. Again though, Ford/Tate have done a nice job recruiting and if we don't get guys in the portal this year it's more about money than recruiting ability. 

[cheeseman]

49 minutes ago, brianstl said:

What is the use of a paying big bucks to great recruiter as your head coach when the importance of that skill has been minimized?

Let us all accept that it isn’t Ford’s fault.  The problem is that you have a stagecoach driver leading your program in the self driving car era.  It is the program wasting its own and donors money on something that is now obsolete.

You are correct on all of this but I would add one more thing - roster construction is part of the recruiting process.  If you just simply recruit players without real consideration of the entire picture then your effectiveness as a recruiter is in essence devalued.  I have come to the idea that just saying Ford is a good recruiter is not necessarily accurate.