2023 Offseason - Coaching Discussion Thread

[ACE]

2 minutes ago, JettFlight5 said:

That was a good team...I still have trouble with the LaSalle loss that year. 

That came after a nearly 40 day Covid pause. In addition to being out of game shape, reportedly a few players had Covid pretty bad and were still feeling the aftereffects. That was clearly a warning sign. Even with that, the team had a NET of 43 and was in the first four out.

[DeSmetBilliken]

31 minutes ago, gabriel said:

1. I'm curious on what the perfect scenario for the 'Fire Travis' contingent is?

2. Is there a single realistic candidate out there that right now that would be a smart business decision to get rid of travis right now and give him his massive buyout?

After seeing Providence settle for Kim English, it gave me a whole different perspective on what coaches are out there for this year. 

This is a good point. Personally I’m not convinced that Ford is the guy to get us over the hump. I think he’s plateaued here, just as he did at OSU. At OSU, his plateau was the Round of 64. Here, his plateau is 4 seed in the A10, semifinals of the A10 tournament, and a NIT berth.

If the right candidate was out there and attainable, I’d replace Ford without a second thought. With that said, it’s certainly possible that SLU could fire Ford and make a mess of the search, ending up with a lateral replacement at best. Confidence in the powers that be at SLU to get it right is a different conversation. So there is a credible argument for rolling the dice on Ford for another year and hoping he doesn’t have an absolute clunker of a year like his last at OSU.

Anyway, I don’t know who would be officially available this year because I’m not in a position to be part of those conversations. My ideal Ford replacement would be Chris Mack. I know he has said he wasn’t taking a job this year, and that may be, but if you removed Ford, you have to try and make him say “no”. Beyond that, Pat Kelsey at Charleston and Darian Devries at Drake would be next on my list. I had this thought when we were replacing Jim Crews, and I still think a good hiring strategy for SLU is to hire someone with experience at Xavier, Creighton, Marquette, or some other school like SLU that has had more basketball success. Tell them to build SLU’s program the way those other schools operate. Kelsey was at Xavier, and Devries was a longtime assistant at Creighton.

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

That came after a nearly 40 day Covid pause. In addition to being out of game shape, reportedly a few players had Covid pretty bad and were still feeling the aftereffects. That was clearly a warning sign. Even with that, the team had a NET of 43 and was in the first four out.

That team was actually snubbed out of the NCAA, had an NCAA at large qualifying NET.

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, gabriel said:

1. I'm curious on what the perfect scenario for the 'Fire Travis' contingent is?

2. Is there a single realistic candidate out there that right now that would be a smart business decision to get rid of travis right now and give him his massive buyout?

After seeing Providence settle for Kim English, it gave me a whole different perspective on what coaches are out there for this year. 

I am not in the contigent of RIGHT NOW, but the only way you let him go RIGHT NOW is if Chris Mack is locked and loaded.

I don't think Providence think they are settling with Kim English.

[Bay Area Billiken]

16 hours ago, Schasz said:

Soderball...maybe Pope Francis should take your suggestion. SLU no longer has a Jesuit running SLU, and if they did one would think they would not have put up with being sub 100 program. 

Why don't you appeal to Pope Francis?  Let's see how far that gets you.

[Cowboy II]

On 3/26/2023 at 11:19 AM, Schasz said:

Young St. Louis area HS players aren't stupid...they see the product on the court year after year and obviously the majority go elsewhere. Are folks on this board ignorant enough to believe that what SLU fans have to say about Ford keeps them from signing on at SLU. Please don't tell me that anyone on here is that naive. Results or non results on the court are what the good players are watching. I'll continue watching and rooting for the team with very meager expectations things will improve under the present setup both HC and AD. I am a fan and an Alum. I donate money to SLU so I feel that entitles me to have a Strong opinions. Wonder how many of you making snarky remarks about me can say the same (maybe a few). I'll continue voicing my opinion regardless! You don't have to tell me what you think and if your comments about me are too ridiculous you'll be added to my ignore List!

-whoa, whoa, whoa, somewhere you said you neither donated to SLU or Tennessee and now this?

[ACE]

On 3/25/2023 at 3:44 PM, brianstl said:

Nesbitt and Goodwin were both 4 star recruits.  Goodwin was ranked 54th by 24/7.  Nesbitt was ranked 76th.  Goodwin was slightly higher ranked, but very similar level recruits.

Also, regardless of ranking, Yuri and Perk are two very successful. Even Hargrove is the kind of player that if he was thriving at a MVC school or even a role player on a P6 school, some would be clamoring for SLU to have him. Also, regionally, Okoro was Top 75 - you could broadly consider him local having played for Beagles I believe, and Fred was recruited by several P6 programs. Local recruiting has been just fine, in fact, I would say quite strong.

[dennis_w]

7 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

the best thing ford has going for him imo is that he now longer is married to yuri collins.   collins was a good point guard.   probably one of the 3 or 4 best in billiken history.  but somehow it was believed he was the end all of the team this season.   he had moments where he lived up to it, but the majority of the time when he tried to do more than just be a very good point guard, he failed and took the team down.   i believe it cost us at least 5 games.  

i would not have wanted to play this past season without yuri collins.   however i wish Ford had stepped up and created a different focus on each game and not tried to make him the man that the game depended on and just had him play point guard.  

i believe next year will be better even though it appears the well is dry.  while i have never been a fan of Ford's practice and game coachng as well as player development, i still believe he is the best recruiter the billikens have ever had and am hoping that the money for NiL will be sufficient to find success bringing in maybe 3 starters to meld with Young Hughes and one of the other returnees to put a team on the floor as good as last year talentwise and hopefully a better "team" than last year.  

i believe the well might not be as dry as one thinks, the right transfer with, hughes, parker, will be solid backcourt. hargroves, thames maybe add a forward to rebound . momo, frosh and a big. might be a good roster

[dennis_w]

7 hours ago, ACE said:

"I helped put Jordan Goodwin into the NBA - a tough blue collar player who was willing to work, also did it previously with Marcus Smart, I helped develop Yuri Collins (not a national recruit) into a PG who led the country in assists two years in a row and was a Cousy Award finalist and a player good enough that a program like TN was willing to throw a bunch of money at (before you scoff, both Medlay and the Hunter kid each mentioned Yuri), helped developed Gibby into a more well rounded player, had some success with some P6 transfers Bess, Foreman, Okoro, Pickett, success with local recruits, juco recruits, grad transfers (Isabell) and East Coast recruits. Inherited a dumpster fire, got the team in the Big Dance in year 3, and two Top 50 teams the following two seasons. With free agency, we can turn it around quicker, I have playing time and NIL money to offer."

Before a few folks potentially fly off the handle, I have been on the record as saying Ford is rightfully on the hot seat, but I think some very real bad luck (not excuses) is why he does not have at least a couple of more NCAA Tourney bids to his credit. How I think he saves his job? Do exactly what he did when he started here - land quality transfers Bess, Foreman, Henriquez, Graves (this time they would be immediately eligible) then follow it up in the fall landing a couple of impact high school players like he did when he got French and Goodwin. That's a tall order, but he has done it before.

i would guess he will say this very thing, last five seasons have won nearly 70% of the games and have been competitive in the league, i am looking forward to next year

[Schasz]

The HC who will be in a much different income bracket after the NCAA Tourney is FAU's Dusty May. He will be well into the 7 figure category for some team next season.

[GOSLU68]

I was disappointed that our HC could not get Yuri Collins led team to play better together. Some tranfers like Picket seem to fit in as team mates: too many of our players seemed to play for themselves and had good games if their shots fell but were not ball stealers, assist makers or threats as dribblers, drivers, rebounders or ball hawks. I do think the players responded better to LH2 and he grew up a lot in a hurry. I am not knocking Collins I think he tried hard- court vision or flow something never quite happened- maybe he needs another year to envision his plays, his passes. The whole team was guilty of bad passing at times. Players not aware they were getting passed to or low passes to tall players. It just did not happen for two halves too often. Maybe some are gifted athletes but not smooth like Perkins before his injury. I commend the coach for an offense that seemed capable of 80 points even in loses but we had too much ugly basketball.

 

[TheA_Bomb]

Pulled this information off another message board,  I did not validate it but it looks legit. 

The Sweet 16

Rank Coach School Salary

1. Tom Izzo Michigan State $5,738,727

2. Rick Barnes Tennessee $5,450,000

3. Mick Cronin UCLA $4,100,000

4. Eric Musselman Arkansas $4,100,000

5. Nate Oats Alabama $3,418,644

6. Kelvin Sampson Houston $3,200,000

7. Danny Hurley Connecticut $2,900,000

8. Jim Larrañaga Miami $2,562,916

9. Sean Miller Xavier $2,400,000

10. Greg McDermot Creighton $2,143,312

11. Jerome Tang Kansas State $2,1000,000

12. Mark Few Gonzaga $1,877,687

13. Brian Dutcher San Diego State $1,353,100

14. Rodney Terry Texas $800,000*

15. Dusty May Florida Atlantic $390,000

16. Mitch Henderson Princeton N/A

*interim head coach

[gobillsgo]

13 hours ago, GOSLU68 said:

I was disappointed that our HC could not get Yuri Collins led team to play better together. Some tranfers like Picket seem to fit in as team mates: too many of our players seemed to play for themselves and had good games if their shots fell but were not ball stealers, assist makers or threats as dribblers, drivers, rebounders or ball hawks. I do think the players responded better to LH2 and he grew up a lot in a hurry. I am not knocking Collins I think he tried hard- court vision or flow something never quite happened- maybe he needs another year to envision his plays, his passes. The whole team was guilty of bad passing at times. Players not aware they were getting passed to or low passes to tall players. It just did not happen for two halves too often. Maybe some are gifted athletes but not smooth like Perkins before his injury. I commend the coach for an offense that seemed capable of 80 points even in loses but we had too much ugly basketball.

 

That was maybe true the first half of the season.  By conference play (or the Fordham game at the latest), Pickett rarely passed the ball and simply put his head down and tried to bulldoze his way to the hoop… which rarely works when you’re slow and maybeeee 6’4”.   I appreciate the effort Pickett put in each game, but we need to be looking at a higher level player this off-season. 

[BIG BILL FAN]

35 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Pulled this information off another message board,  I did not validate it but it looks legit. 

The Sweet 16

Rank Coach School Salary

1. Tom Izzo Michigan State $5,738,727

2. Rick Barnes Tennessee $5,450,000

3. Mick Cronin UCLA $4,100,000

4. Eric Musselman Arkansas $4,100,000

5. Nate Oats Alabama $3,418,644

6. Kelvin Sampson Houston $3,200,000

7. Danny Hurley Connecticut $2,900,000

8. Jim Larrañaga Miami $2,562,916

9. Sean Miller Xavier $2,400,000

10. Greg McDermot Creighton $2,143,312

11. Jerome Tang Kansas State $2,1000,000

12. Mark Few Gonzaga $1,877,687

13. Brian Dutcher San Diego State $1,353,100

14. Rodney Terry Texas $800,000*

15. Dusty May Florida Atlantic $390,000

16. Mitch Henderson Princeton N/A

*interim head coach

Please note that the salaries listed are primarily base salaries and doesn’t necessarily show bonuses, media appearance fees and other perks. 

[slu72]

Dutcher looks like a bargain. 

[slufan13]

Even though I think that the way Ford handled Yuri this season was detrimental to the team, it's also a good recruiting pitch to lead guards. The offense relied on Yuri and basically only Yuri. He can sell that idea to recruits but I sure hope that's not how the actual offense is next year.

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Even though I think that the way Ford handled Yuri this season was detrimental to the team, it's also a good recruiting pitch to lead guards. The offense relied on Yuri and basically only Yuri. He can sell that idea to recruits but I sure hope that's not how the actual offense is next year.

Does it make sense to a coach to put all his eggs in one basket?  This may be an area Ford can make a change since doing this makes it very easy to game plan against us.  Seems intuitive to me.

[billikenblue]

Just like division in the country right now,  being on either side of the ledger doesn't correlate to only love or hate for  Travis. Focusing on extremes tends to obstruct the actual facts.

Travis has coached for 25 years with the same weaknesses present today:

1.Roster construction and understanding the importance of match ups..

2.Making quick and thoughtful decisions on game flow and substitution patterns happening in real time.

3. Playing an offense that's utilizes the strengths and hides the weaknesses of your team 

4 a system of strong fundamentals of screens and defense 

5  His management skills are omnipresent on game day and his flaws are so obvious  it has a big impact on results. During the VCU blow out I wax right behind the team.  Duting the second half melt-down  He personally "shutdown " ,which a great coach doesn't do. For 15 game minutes he fumed and walked back and forth . No engagement with the team...we can do this .ideas to turn it around .etc ...no interaction with the coaches who stoucally sat with arms crossed taking the beating.. .especially no adjustments  to try SOMETHING...no press ...etc . With 4 minutes left we finally woke but why then ...to look good? act like we are trying? ..baffling to say the least.

After the game he was quoted telling Hargrove sorry you didn't start but you will start every game next.  What head coach says that especially to a player who really has no true position ...no handle so not a 2 ...not a great shooter so not a 3 ...too small so not really a 4 ...probably a great energy 6th man but once again shows Travis struggles with roster construction and match ups

 

Yes he recruits great players but his  weaknesses offset the advantages those players bring to us . So for the fans on the love side  .Yes Talent will always be there ...Yes 20 wins will happen ...but for a program to aspire to be great the whole package is needed..that's all some of us on the other side are saying . We all care about the program and it's growth and success. 25 years of similar coaching is like saying I have seen this  film before and didn't like the ending ..hard for us to see the change happening.  

[almaman]

45 minutes ago, billikenblue said:

Just like division in the country right now,  being on either side of the ledger doesn't correlate to only love or hate for  Travis. Focusing on extremes tends to obstruct the actual facts.

Travis has coached for 25 years with the same weaknesses present today:

1.Roster construction and understanding the importance of match ups..

2.Making quick and thoughtful decisions on game flow and substitution patterns happening in real time.

3. Playing an offense that's utilizes the strengths and hides the weaknesses of your team 

4 a system of strong fundamentals of screens and defense 

5  His management skills are omnipresent on game day and his flaws are so obvious  it has a big impact on results. During the VCU blow out I wax right behind the team.  Duting the second half melt-down  He personally "shutdown " ,which a great coach doesn't do. For 15 game minutes he fumed and walked back and forth . No engagement with the team...we can do this .ideas to turn it around .etc ...no interaction with the coaches who stoucally sat with arms crossed taking the beating.. .especially no adjustments  to try SOMETHING...no press ...etc . With 4 minutes left we finally woke but why then ...to look good? act like we are trying? ..baffling to say the least.

After the game he was quoted telling Hargrove sorry you didn't start but you will start every game next.  What head coach says that especially to a player who really has no true position ...no handle so not a 2 ...not a great shooter so not a 3 ...too small so not really a 4 ...probably a great energy 6th man but once again shows Travis struggles with roster construction and match ups

 

Yes he recruits great players but his  weaknesses offset the advantages those players bring to us . So for the fans on the love side  .Yes Talent will always be there ...Yes 20 wins will happen ...but for a program to aspire to be great the whole package is needed..that's all some of us on the other side are saying . We all care about the program and it's growth and success. 25 years of similar coaching is like saying I have seen this  film before and didn't like the ending ..hard for us to see the change happening.  

well said

[BIG BILL FAN]

1 hour ago, billikenblue said:

Just like division in the country right now,  being on either side of the ledger doesn't correlate to only love or hate for  Travis. Focusing on extremes tends to obstruct the actual facts.

Travis has coached for 25 years with the same weaknesses present today:

1.Roster construction and understanding the importance of match ups..

2.Making quick and thoughtful decisions on game flow and substitution patterns happening in real time.

3. Playing an offense that's utilizes the strengths and hides the weaknesses of your team 

4 a system of strong fundamentals of screens and defense 

5  His management skills are omnipresent on game day and his flaws are so obvious  it has a big impact on results. During the VCU blow out I wax right behind the team.  Duting the second half melt-down  He personally "shutdown " ,which a great coach doesn't do. For 15 game minutes he fumed and walked back and forth . No engagement with the team...we can do this .ideas to turn it around .etc ...no interaction with the coaches who stoucally sat with arms crossed taking the beating.. .especially no adjustments  to try SOMETHING...no press ...etc . With 4 minutes left we finally woke but why then ...to look good? act like we are trying? ..baffling to say the least.

After the game he was quoted telling Hargrove sorry you didn't start but you will start every game next.  What head coach says that especially to a player who really has no true position ...no handle so not a 2 ...not a great shooter so not a 3 ...too small so not really a 4 ...probably a great energy 6th man but once again shows Travis struggles with roster construction and match ups

 

Yes he recruits great players but his  weaknesses offset the advantages those players bring to us . So for the fans on the love side  .Yes Talent will always be there ...Yes 20 wins will happen ...but for a program to aspire to be great the whole package is needed..that's all some of us on the other side are saying . We all care about the program and it's growth and success. 25 years of similar coaching is like saying I have seen this  film before and didn't like the ending ..hard for us to see the change happening.  

I’m glad you received your talking points… please post your basketball resume, maybe we can hire you with your vast knowledge and expertise… 

[Coach314]

3 hours ago, slufan13 said:

Even though I think that the way Ford handled Yuri this season was detrimental to the team, it's also a good recruiting pitch to lead guards. The offense relied on Yuri and basically only Yuri. He can sell that idea to recruits but I sure hope that's not how the actual offense is next year.

Lol that is his exact pitch

[cgeldmacher]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:20 PM, DeSmetBilliken said:

This is a good point. Personally I’m not convinced that Ford is the guy to get us over the hump. I think he’s plateaued here, just as he did at OSU. At OSU, his plateau was the Round of 64. Here, his plateau is 4 seed in the A10, semifinals of the A10 tournament, and a NIT berth.

If the right candidate was out there and attainable, I’d replace Ford without a second thought. With that said, it’s certainly possible that SLU could fire Ford and make a mess of the search, ending up with a lateral replacement at best. Confidence in the powers that be at SLU to get it right is a different conversation. So there is a credible argument for rolling the dice on Ford for another year and hoping he doesn’t have an absolute clunker of a year like his last at OSU.

Anyway, I don’t know who would be officially available this year because I’m not in a position to be part of those conversations. My ideal Ford replacement would be Chris Mack. I know he has said he wasn’t taking a job this year, and that may be, but if you removed Ford, you have to try and make him say “no”. Beyond that, Pat Kelsey at Charleston and Darian Devries at Drake would be next on my list. I had this thought when we were replacing Jim Crews, and I still think a good hiring strategy for SLU is to hire someone with experience at Xavier, Creighton, Marquette, or some other school like SLU that has had more basketball success. Tell them to build SLU’s program the way those other schools operate. Kelsey was at Xavier, and Devries was a longtime assistant at Creighton.

The problem with this is why would Mack, Kelsey, and Devries take the SLU job when they will be getting offers from power conference schools.  We all think that these guys are available to SLU, but they are really not.  if those guys are going to leave their current school, it will be to make a big leap, not a small one, from where they currently are.  The up and coming type guys that are available to SLU are guys most of this board would look at and say "Why did we hire this guy?"  Could turn out just fine, but we probably wouldn't be happy at first.

[dennis_w]

1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

The problem with this is why would Mack, Kelsey, and Devries take the SLU job when they will be getting offers from power conference schools.  We all think that these guys are available to SLU, but they are really not.  if those guys are going to leave their current school, it will be to make a big leap, not a small one, from where they currently are.  The up and coming type guys that are available to SLU are guys most of this board would look at and say "Why did we hire this guy?"  Could turn out just fine, but we probably wouldn't be happy at first.

the up and comer kim english types have a bit of success and move to the power five and take the best players with them. then you start over again

 

[BigMouthBilliken]

23 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

I’m glad you received your talking points… please post your basketball resume, maybe we can hire you with your vast knowledge and expertise… 

What a stupid post. Please bring back the troll button. I would gladly spam it with my new NCAA tourney bracket bonus of of daily reactions

[Soderball]

4 minutes ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

What a stupid post. Please bring back the troll button. I would gladly spam it with my new NCAA tourney bracket bonus of of daily reactions

"big bill fan" = "mrjoelabs"