2023 Offseason - Coaching Discussion Thread

[brianstl]

28 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Frank and Ford are tight. I definitely expect him to have Ford's back. And his point is sound. NIL is a huge deal. The portal is a huge deal. Ford can turn this around in 3 months if he plays his cards right this offseason. So could a new coach. There really aren't excuses for a rebuild anymore. And 20 win seasons and top 4 conference finishes are meaningless. Hell, there isn't much difference between a 10 win season and a 20 win season if neither ends up in postseason play.

I expect Ford to be the coach next season. I don't think it's the best move but the ability is there to turn it around. All it takes is one good offseason to lead to a big year and then a ton of stability. Honestly, he needs to feel his seat warming up. He has to change something and sometimes the only way to do that is to feel the heat. 

I don't think Frank did this for Ford last night.  No doubt Ford wants to keep his job, but I doubt with a buyout around 8 figures he feels the need to go around campaigning for it or to have people campaign for him.  If they buy him out, Ford will be fine.  He will just move on to TV and with the buyout make more money overall the next 3 years than he would have coaching.  

I think he did this for the guy who that morning told him 100% that Ford would be back, Chris May. If Ford gets bought out, May will quickly be following Ford out that door.  You don't keep around an AD when he recently extended the coach only for some of your biggest booster to then go around that AD and buy the coach out.  

[slufan13]

2 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

no ugly scandals,

Uhhhh?

[cheeseman]

13 minutes ago, HenryB said:

Here's the thing....I have been on this board for decades and when things get heated thing do sometimes get personal but I have noticed that no one seems to mind unless the poster is disagreeing with them. I have no doubt that if BBF was going after Ford he would get a whole lot less criticism. I don't mind you making your point, just make sure you are applying your standard equally. I certainly haven't noticed you having a problem with anyone personally attacking BBF. The good news is that most people on this board have a short memory. Hopefully this saga will be over shortly and we can find more positive things to discuss. 

Of course people only care about being call a nitwit and an idiot when it is being flung at them.  

[dennis_w]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

Which only shows you that even 22.5 wins are not enough so how do we get to 26 and some Q1 wins?  Look at KY with Coach Cal - he has great players but his coaching is his problem and KY is getting tired of him.  Getting Ford good players with NIL money is not a silver bullet I just hope people are not thinking that way.

i am not sure the road to 26 is getting rid of the guy that got you to 22 and starting over with an unknown, do you bring in a big name retread with baggage or the up and comer who leaves for greener pastures after some success? say a kim english who is looking for the big time

[dennis_w]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

Of course people only care about being call a nitwit and an idiot when it is being flung at them.  

ignore bbf

[slufan13]

1 minute ago, brianstl said:

I don't think Frank did this for Ford last night.  No doubt Ford wants to keep his job, but I doubt with a buyout around 8 figures he feels the need to go around campaigning for it or to have people campaign for him.  If they buy him out, Ford will be fine.  He will just move on to TV and with the buyout make more money overall the next 3 years than he would have coaching.  

I think he did this for the guy who that morning told him 100% that Ford would be back, Chris May. If Ford gets bought out, May will quickly be following Ford out that door.  You don't keep around an AD when he recently extended the coach only for some of your biggest booster to then go around that AD and buy the coach out.  

I don't think Ford asked Frank to campaign for him. I'm just saying that Frank's opinion on this matter is a little skewed because he and Ford are boys. 

[cheeseman]

6 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

i am not sure the road to 26 is getting rid of the guy that got you to 22 and starting over with an unknown, do you bring in a big name retread with baggage or the up and comer who leaves for greener pastures after some success? say a kim english who is looking for the big time

Look if getting an at large bid or a conference tourney trophy is how to get into the Dance then I can assure you that 26 wins is better than 22.5.  Making it to the tourney final adds games to your win total.  The big problem I see is unless you as a mid major dominate your league your are screwed.  Ford has never dominated anything since being here except for his tourney run 5 years ago.  To bad he could not have used that as a springboard.  Remember people want hope and when there is not really anything to hope for fans will get disengaged.  Ford has managed to accomplish this regardless of his 22.5 win simply by not bringing home the bacon now and then.  

I do think it is a fair question to ask who would I bring in but I am not making the big bucks to make that decision so it is mute.  This is why we pay May.

[Cowboy II]

-in Frank's world the boosters buck up and CFord is still the coach, CFord is the one some don't think can coach 

-there is no deadline as to when a change has to take place, sooner is likely better than later but IF making a change the key, the whole enchalada, is getting the right replacement, not timing

[BIG BILL FAN]

52 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Why is this so personal for you?   In this thread, you’ve been incapable of conveying a single thought without some kind of insult or attack on the “Ford haters”. 

I don’t call people liars unless they lie, pretty simple. I have to laugh at the notion of Ford haters being upset because I’m attacking them, isn’t that exactly what you’re doing to Coach Ford??? It would be impossible to lose a debate with any of you because you are all steeped in hypocrisy.

[DeSmetBilliken]

10 minutes ago, brianstl said:

 

I think he did this for the guy who that morning told him 100% that Ford would be back, Chris May. If Ford gets bought out, May will quickly be following Ford out that door.  You don't keep around an AD when he recently extended the coach only for some of your biggest booster to then go around that AD and buy the coach out.  

I agree with this. I think it’s becoming clearer that there are some people (seemingly big money boosters) that want to make a change, and my guess is that probably Chris May doesn’t want to do so, or at least wants to give Ford another year. So it’s the boosters vs May and maybe Pestello. 

[slu92]

I’ve been watching and hearing a lot, but on what Frank said…didn’t Travis have all the resources at OK State when there was no NIL? I think he did. He came to slu needed new lockers-got them, needed champions center - got it, and a whole list of other asks Majerus didn’t have or probably need, granted a lot has changed since he coached at slu. My point is slu has everything to compete right now, except a coach. If paying players automatically wins your conference or a championship then why even start the mlb baseball season in 9    days or so just give the Mets the WS trophy now! Plus NIL wasn’t around the year we got lucky and slipped into NCAA….Frank is way off on this imo. It’s not on donors they have actually come through big time, you can get a team of 5 stars and with the same guy coaching them probably get same results. Not a good in game coach, so NIL now makes a “great recruiter” less important than a real X’s and O’s Coach based on what Frank just said. We will see, should be a very interesting few days. 

[dennis_w]

10 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Look if getting an at large bid or a conference tourney trophy is how to get into the Dance then I can assure you that 26 wins is better than 22.5.  Making it to the tourney final adds games to your win total.  The big problem I see is unless you as a mid major dominate your league your are screwed.  Ford has never dominated anything since being here except for his tourney run 5 years ago.  To bad he could not have used that as a springboard.  Remember people want hope and when there is not really anything to hope for fans will get disengaged.  Ford has managed to accomplish this regardless of his 22.5 win simply by not bringing home the bacon now and then.  

I do think it is a fair question to ask who would I bring in but I am not making the big bucks to make that decision so it is mute.  This is why we pay May.

i think that likely is the question that may is asking these "donors" that want a change. yes the league has to be dominated, i have hope that the foundation has been laid by ford and think it very risky to dump it and start over, imo

[slu92]

1 minute ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I agree with this. I think it’s becoming clearer that there are some people (seemingly big money boosters) that want to make a change, and my guess is that probably Chris May doesn’t want to do so, or at least wants to give Ford another year. So it’s the boosters vs May and maybe Pestello.

Chris May didn’t have to go so far out of his way supporting Ford, if Ford leaves one way or another he’s going to look bad. I’m sure if Ford is not the coach after this week they might say personal reasons, health related to save face. When reality it’ll probably be Chaifetz making the call, paying the buyout. Money guys vs. AD who is lucky as hell to still have a job after 15 years isn’t a good or fair match up. Not very smart if Ford is out. 

[slu92]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

This is the main sticking point for me when it comes to Ford. Could he go crazy in the transfer portal and restock this roster with top of the A10 level talent?  Sure.  Would it change his inadequacies in in-game coaching?  History has told us no.   Ford has been in charge of some of our most talented rosters ever. We’ve got almost nothing to show for it.  Doesn’t matter if you’ve got an unsinkable ship if your captain steers it straight into an iceberg every voyage. 

This is spot on and can’t sum situation up any better! 

[slu92]

44 minutes ago, SLUDrew said:

A very basic question for those who think he should retain his job and I mean this with no snark whatsoever;

What have you seen that gives you such strong conviction about your stance? Why in your mind is Ford the guy to take this program to the proverbial "next level?"

Personally, I cant get past an 0fer against top 25 opponents in seven years AND never finishing higher than 4th in a rapidly declining league

I think we all agree he is a great ambassador for the program and, by all accounts, a stand-up guy in general. In other words, we all want him to succeed, but to date it just hasn't happened 

From where I sit, it appears that Coach Stone was held to a higher set of standards and she took over a program that was an absolute non-factor in women's college basketball, while Ford took over a couple years removed from some of the best Billiken teams ever. 

Rich Grawer is one of the greatest people and ambassadors of slu basketball ever and he was fired. Point is you can be nice and still be fired, Frank sounds like a relative or fanboy more than a reporter. Mike Schildt was nice. Bob Berry was nice. You don’t get paid millions of dollars to be nice. I like Ford personally but I like winning more. 

[SLUDrew]

32 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

great ambassador for the school, no ugly scandals, i believe he has incrementally improved the overall program, of course i want to win more games. the previous coach won games but left nothing, travis the last five years is winning at nearly 70%. mark few didnt build gonzaga he improved on what someone else started and that took many years to build. i would rather a decent human being be the coach than a scandal plagued ****** that gets the school on probation at the expense of some short term success.

It sounds like you are willing to forgive the performance on the court due to Ford being a great guy. That's fine. That's entirely your right to feel like that. 

My take on that would be that you can be a great guy AND be more successful on the floor. The two are not mutually exclusive. You can also be a great guy, and ill-suited to be a coach at this level. 

The track record you describe above would be a huge success story at a SEMO or possibly even some lower level A-10 teams. Shouldn't a SLU that is willing to make its coach the highest paid in the league, playing in arguably the best gym in the league, be allowed to expect one victory against a top-25 team over a seven-year span?

[HenryB]

38 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

ignore bbf

Ignore cheeseman 

[DeSmetBilliken]

I just remembered that 2 weeks ago during the “Travis Ford is going to be here for a long time” interview with Chris May, Frank and/or May mentioned how NIL can be helpful, but also cautioned it’s effectiveness, citing North Carolina’s heft NIL bill for this season with no NCAA tournament appearance to show for it. Now he’s citing Miami “buying a point guard” and getting to the Sweet 16?

[cgeldmacher]

FORD SUPPORTERS - Ford has underproduced given his salary and our expectations for this program.  He has shown us flaws and an inability to learn from those flaws and improve. If we can find the right candidate, it may just makes sense to part ways.

FORD HATERS - Ford has shown an ability to get 20 win seasons.  The fact that he hasn't gotten us over the hump doesn't mean he cannot.  If we can make a big splash hire this season, great, do it.  If not, hiring an up and comer is very dangerous.  If we have to part from Ford, this year or next, we better have right guy lined up.  The big name guys many of you would like to see may not want to come here.  Heck, the up and comers from smaller conferences many not want to come here if they can by-pass us for a power conference job.  You should be behind the idea that if we get rid of Ford, it better be to get a can't miss type of hire.

The moral of the above is let's not just pound on the Fire Ford or Keep Ford concepts until we all piss each other off.  Instead, it should be let's make sure we get the right guy next time, whether its this year or next or the season after that.  I'm willing to be patient in order to either (1) get the right guy as our next hire, or (2) let Ford surprise us and prove his is the next right guy.

 

[cheeseman]

23 minutes ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I agree with this. I think it’s becoming clearer that there are some people (seemingly big money boosters) that want to make a change, and my guess is that probably Chris May doesn’t want to do so, or at least wants to give Ford another year. So it’s the boosters vs May and maybe Pestello. 

Money talks and Pesty will go with the money not May.  If May is the guy trying to keep the from breaking he is playing with fire.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

This is the main sticking point for me when it comes to Ford. Could he go crazy in the transfer portal and restock this roster with top of the A10 level talent?  Sure.  Would it change his inadequacies in in-game coaching?  History has told us no.   Ford has been in charge of some of our most talented rosters ever. We’ve got almost nothing to show for it.  Doesn’t matter if you’ve got an unsinkable ship if your captain steers it straight into an iceberg every voyage. 

This is where I’m at. Wish it wasn’t, I like Ford, but it is. 

[TheA_Bomb]

No one wants to kick the tires on Blake Ahearn?  He's a board legend. I don't follow NBA so I'm unsure what he does at the Grizzlies. 

Don't make me get on the Diener Express toot toot (he hasn't won in KC so I'm off that train).

1. Mack

2. Kelsey

Tied Greg Marshall

Ahearn

Any others that should be on the shortlist?

My wild speculation.  Mack was lined up, but Providence opening is now being used to get more $.

 

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

No one wants to kick the tires on Blake Ahearn?  He's a board legend. I don't follow NBA so I'm unsure what he does at the Grizzlies. 

Don't make me get on the Diener Express toot toot (he hasn't won in KC so I'm off that train).

1. Mack

2. Kelsey

Tied Greg Marshall

Ahearn

Any others that should be on the shortlist?

My wild speculation.  Mack was lined up, but Providence opening is now being used to get more $.

 

You know Fords staying, right?

[dennis_w]

9 minutes ago, HenryB said:

Ignore cheeseman 

i did for awhile, along with others

[HenryB]

1 hour ago, wgstl said:

I agree with a lot of what Frank said, it just a little frightening how highly he thinks of Travis - mainly because he's a friend.  You would think we have some outstanding coach that we cant afford to lose based on how he speaks of him. 

It's frightening that he thinks highly of him because he is a friend? Hmmmm