2023 Offseason - Coaching Discussion Thread

[ACE]

27 minutes ago, FromDaEastSide said:

Frank is still a believer in the 20 win season. 

There definitely is smoke to the rumor, but I'm still skeptical that it will actually happen and I think Ford deserves one more year, BUT if this is going to happen do two things. 1) You better have someone really good lined up and ready to take over quickly.  2) If you are going to do it, make the move ASAP, before the end of this week. Portal activity is already flying.

If Ford is still coach by the end of the week, I agree with Frank, the big money boosters would be better served rallying around the coach and pumping their money into the NIL.

[CenHudDude]

2 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Him using 20 wins as a measure of success, mainly. 

I agree.  That is not a good measure in 2023.

[stmdragons]

4 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

What part did you disagree with?

That we should be happy with 20 wins and a coach who isn’t a scumbag. 

[wgstl]

Just now, CenHudDude said:

I agree.  That is not a good measure in 2023.

I agree with a lot of what Frank said, it just a little frightening how highly he thinks of Travis - mainly because he's a friend.  You would think we have some outstanding coach that we cant afford to lose based on how he speaks of him. 

[dennis_w]

2 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Why is this so personal for you?   In this thread, you’ve been incapable of conveying a single thought without some kind of insult or attack on the “Ford haters”. 

maybe because most posts as of late start with how much a failure ford is, as if nothing positive has ever happened. just a thought

[CenHudDude]

3 minutes ago, stmdragons said:

That we should be happy with 20 wins and a coach who isn’t a scumbag. 

We shouldn’t be happy with 20 wins, but we should be very happy that our coach isn’t a scumbag.

[Lord Elrond]

1 minute ago, ACE said:

There definitely smoke to the rumor, but I'm still skeptical that it will actually happen and I think Ford deserves one more year, BUT if this is going to happen to two things. 1) You better have someone really good lined up and ready to take over quickly.  2) If you are going to do it, make the move ASAP, before the end of this week. Portal activity is already flying.

If Ford is still coach by the end of the week, I agree with Frank, the big money boosters would be better served rallying around the coach and pumping their money into the NIL.

If SLU was serious about making a coaching change, they should have done it by now. Other coaches are moving, committing to new teams, players from the portal are being contacted, many by current SLU assistant coachs. Delaying hurts you more and more the longer this gets dragged out. The end of the week is absolutely last day you can wait, if that date hasn’t already passed.

[gobillsgo]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Frank and Ford are tight. I definitely expect him to have Ford's back. And his point is sound. NIL is a huge deal. The portal is a huge deal. Ford can turn this around in 3 months if he plays his cards right this offseason. So could a new coach. There really aren't excuses for a rebuild anymore. And 20 win seasons and top 4 conference finishes are meaningless. Hell, there isn't much difference between a 10 win season and a 20 win season if neither ends up in postseason play.

I expect Ford to be the coach next season. I don't think it's the best move but the ability is there to turn it around. All it takes is one good offseason to lead to a big year and then a ton of stability. Honestly, he needs to feel his seat warming up. He has to change something and sometimes the only way to do that is to feel the heat. 

This is the main sticking point for me when it comes to Ford. Could he go crazy in the transfer portal and restock this roster with top of the A10 level talent?  Sure.  Would it change his inadequacies in in-game coaching?  History has told us no.   Ford has been in charge of some of our most talented rosters ever. We’ve got almost nothing to show for it.  Doesn’t matter if you’ve got an unsinkable ship if your captain steers it straight into an iceberg every voyage. 

[wgstl]

Just now, CenHudDude said:

We shouldn’t be happy with 20 wins, but we should be very happy that our coach isn’t a scumbag.

I mean, sure.  But would I take a scumbag who wins a lot... eh depending on who. 

[gobillsgo]

2 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

maybe because most posts as of late start with how much a failure ford is, as if nothing positive has ever happened. just a thought

By his own standards set out in his introductory press conference, Ford has objectively been a failure. Him and May can’t just go back and move the goalposts to suit their “accomplishments.”  Why is that an excuse for continued personal attacks on other posters?  

[wgstl]

This is what's going to happen imo.

Ford will be here next year. 

But until recently(last few weeks) it was that Ford would be here for a while. Now with boosters rising up, I think its assumed by all parties this is the put up or shut up year. 

If Ford cant put together a good team with the money and minutes available, then it proves he also may not be a great recruiter along with coach. 

Time to throw money to the NIL, and let the next 12 months be the deciding factor. 

[HenryB]

2 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

By his own standards set out in his introductory press conference, Ford has objectively been a failure. Him and May can’t just go back and move the goalposts to suit their “accomplishments.”  Why is that an excuse for continued personal attacks on other posters?  

Sure glad you have never launched any personal attacks on posters.

[wgstl]

10 minutes ago, ACE said:

There definitely smoke to the rumor, but I'm still skeptical that it will actually happen and I think Ford deserves one more year, BUT if this is going to happen to two things. 1) You better have someone really good lined up and ready to take over quickly.  2) If you are going to do it, make the move ASAP, before the end of this week. Portal activity is already flying.

No way Frank would waste time on this if this was purely a courtside rumor.  

[dlarry]

11 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Him using 20 wins as a measure of success, mainly. 

The 20 win thing is driving me nuts. It’s the equivalent of going to a bowl game in college football. Half the teams reach that marker, it doesn’t mean much anymore.

There are reasons to keep Ford around but winning 20 games is not one of them.

[gobillsgo]

1 minute ago, HenryB said:

Sure glad you have never launched any personal attacks on posters.

I’m sure we all have in the heat of the moment. But not every single post over the course of a week. 

[wgstl]

Just now, dlarry said:

The 20 win thing is driving me nuts. It’s the equivalent of going to a bowl game in college football. Half the teams reach that marker, it doesn’t mean much anymore.

There are reasons to keep Ford around but winning 20 games is not one of them.

to a certain degree, yes.  The 6 wins has NEVER made sense. At least the 20 wins did make sense, years ago, but college basketball was evolved. 

[dennis_w]

5 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

By his own standards set out in his introductory press conference, Ford has objectively been a failure. Him and May can’t just go back and move the goalposts to suit their “accomplishments.”  Why is that an excuse for continued personal attacks on other posters?  

i can only answer to ignore bbf, easy to do. are you one of those who say ford has accomplished nothing? then he is a failure in your eyes

[dennis_w]

4 minutes ago, wgstl said:

to a certain degree, yes.  The 6 wins has NEVER made sense. At least the 20 wins did make sense, years ago, but college basketball was evolved. 

just for accuracy, last five years ave 22.5 wins removing the covid short season.

[gobillsgo]

2 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

i can only answer to ignore bbf, easy to do. are you one of those who say ford has accomplished nothing? then he is a failure in your eyes

I’ve never said that in regards to Ford. I know in all of this slop it’s hard to know exactly where people stand. But I’ve maintained for all of this season that I’m grateful to Ford for raising the talent level of the program and bringing us out from the depths that were the Crews years.  But we’ve clearly plateaued for about three years now. I like Ford as a person.  He’s just not the person to take this program to the next level: ie, perennial at large CONTENDER. (Not saying we have to have an at large every season, but we should be in the conversation). 

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, dennis_w said:

just for accuracy, last five years ave 22.5 wins removing the covid short season.

correct.  This is more towards Frank using 20 wins in his rant than on Ford. 

[cheeseman]

Here is the thing - big boosters don't have to do one or the other.  They get a new coach if that is where they want to go and also give money for the NIL.  They are not mutually exclusive as Frank seems to imply.  GoBillsGo is right how does giving money for NIL help if the coach is not good at coaching that would just be throwing good money after bad.  I was OK with Ford coming back for another year because the money was a big stumbling block but apparently it is not so lets move on is my take now.  I can assure you that if Missouri had said lets give Martin one more year and give him a bunch of NIL money and see if he can turn it around, Frank would not have liked that.  

[SLUDrew]

A very basic question for those who think he should retain his job and I mean this with no snark whatsoever;

What have you seen that gives you such strong conviction about your stance? Why in your mind is Ford the guy to take this program to the proverbial "next level?"

Personally, I cant get past an 0fer against top 25 opponents in seven years AND never finishing higher than 4th in a rapidly declining league

I think we all agree he is a great ambassador for the program and, by all accounts, a stand-up guy in general. In other words, we all want him to succeed, but to date it just hasn't happened 

From where I sit, it appears that Coach Stone was held to a higher set of standards and she took over a program that was an absolute non-factor in women's college basketball, while Ford took over a couple years removed from some of the best Billiken teams ever. 

[HenryB]

12 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

I’m sure we all have in the heat of the moment. But not every single post over the course of a week. 

Here's the thing....I have been on this board for decades and when things get heated thing do sometimes get personal but I have noticed that no one seems to mind unless the poster is disagreeing with them. I have no doubt that if BBF was going after Ford he would get a whole lot less criticism. I don't mind you making your point, just make sure you are applying your standard equally. I certainly haven't noticed you having a problem with anyone personally attacking BBF. The good news is that most people on this board have a short memory. Hopefully this saga will be over shortly and we can find more positive things to discuss. 

[cheeseman]

13 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

just for accuracy, last five years ave 22.5 wins removing the covid short season.

Which only shows you that even 22.5 wins are not enough so how do we get to 26 and some Q1 wins?  Look at KY with Coach Cal - he has great players but his coaching is his problem and KY is getting tired of him.  Getting Ford good players with NIL money is not a silver bullet I just hope people are not thinking that way.

[dennis_w]

3 minutes ago, SLUDrew said:

A very basic question for those who think he should retain his job and I mean this with no snark whatsoever;

What have you seen that gives you such strong conviction about your stance? Why in your mind is Ford the guy to take this program to the proverbial "next level?"

Personally, I cant get past an 0fer against top 25 opponents in seven years AND never finishing higher than 4th in a rapidly declining league

I think we all agree he is a great ambassador for the program and, by all accounts, a stand-up guy in general. In other words, we all want him to succeed, but to date it just hasn't happened 

From where I sit, it appears that Coach Stone was held to a higher set of standards and she took over a program that was an absolute non-factor in women's college basketball, while Ford took over a couple years removed from some of the best Billiken teams ever. 

great ambassador for the school, no ugly scandals, i believe he has incrementally improved the overall program, of course i want to win more games. the previous coach won games but left nothing, travis the last five years is winning at nearly 70%. mark few didnt build gonzaga he improved on what someone else started and that took many years to build. i would rather a decent human being be the coach than a scandal plagued ****** that gets the school on probation at the expense of some short term success.