2023 NCAA Tournament Thread

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

12 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

right to privacy

Some of these players attend public universities run and funded by state and federal money. In SLU's case, you're correct, but it's not unreasonable to ask this of a public university. 

[Lord Elrond]

If no one knows how much anyone makes, or what the offers are, it makes it harder to compete on price.  Everyone is bidding blind, how do you know you aren’t just bidding against yourself? Every player has an interest in making it appear that someone else is making tons of money, as it will raise what they get offered.  And all for a player who may or may not help your team get to the NCAA. Yes, it helped Miami this year, how did it work out for North Carolina? And we are going to keep asking people to put more and more in every year? Just asking.

[TheA_Bomb]

39 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Some of these players attend public universities run and funded by state and federal money. In SLU's case, you're correct, but it's not unreasonable to ask this of a public university. 

But the NIL deal is not with the university it is with a private entity or in some cases the collectives are 501C. You're just trying to introduce more complications that won't be able to withstand legal argument. 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

11 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

But the NIL deal is not with the university it is with a private entity or in some cases the collectives are 501C. You're just trying to introduce more complications that won't be able to withstand legal argument. 

I'm just skeptical of introducing more money into all of this. Money complicates things.

[courtside]

2023 March Madness $ pay out by league:

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/college-sports/2023/march-madness-2023-unit-payouts-1234717368/

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Not going to happen.  Does IBM disclose how much they pay? Does Pepsi, Coke, Nike disclose how much they pay for NIL?  No so how would this be any different?

What accountability do you need? Players can make money based on their NIL. That amount depends on many things so just because they play college athletics you can undermine their right to privacy and know how much they're paid?  Not going to happen the normal rules of employment now apply to college athletics. 

We will know how much players are getting paid by the collectives operating as a charity or non profit. Those 990s will be publicly available.  

[Cowboy II]

5 hours ago, Taj79 said:

It obviously worked for Miami.  Did it work for North Carolina?  How about Ohio State?  Michigan?  For every instance, there will be an example that validates the narrative.  Tremaine endorsing the model should come as no surprise ---- I'd endorse it too if I was lucky enough to be in a position to clear some big cash as a college player.  Who wouldn't?  

I have long asked the question how you would parse out some amount of money across the recent SLU roster.  What would you pay and to whom?  All you hear about are these six figure payouts to guys.  I doubt that is th enorm but it does set an unrealistic bar (in my book) that can't be met annually.  I still would love to see an accouting of what schools are paying who.  Much like there are ways to find out what a coach is making, there should be a reciprocal listing coming out soon enough that shows that.  Maybe some of these NIL collectives are shielded from that by the law and privacy rules but eventually it will be known.  

Folks throwing out numbers are just speculating.  No one really knows and you can't level a playing field if you don't know.

-schools are not doing the paying in NIL, or at least not supposed to

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

We will know how much players are getting paid by the collectives operating as a charity or non profit. Those 990s will be publicly available.  

Ok, I'm good with this.

[Lord Elrond]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

We will know how much players are getting paid by the collectives operating as a charity or non profit. Those 990s will be publicly available.  

This captures some of the NIL activity, not all collectives are set up as charities, and non-charities dont have to report anything.

[Taj79]

@JMM28:  What does what I make a year have to do with things?  I could tell you that in married filing jointly the $$$ are in the six figures with both my wife and I retired.  But I don't know what that means in terms of your statement.  Care to expand upon that?

@TheA_Bomb:  Are you advocating $30k unilaterally?  So $30k for Perkins, ditto Pickett, ditto Collins, ditto Cisse, Thames, etc.  Over and above tuition, room, board, degree, etc.  Every parent in America that births a child should push their kids to these heights ... especially with college costs soaring out of control.  I am glad my dealing with that part of life is over.  We got away relatively cheap.  

[JMM28]

4 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@JMM28:  What does what I make a year have to do with things?  I could tell you that in married filing jointly the $$$ are in the six figures with both my wife and I retired.  But I don't know what that means in terms of your statement.  Care to expand upon that?

@TheA_Bomb:  Are you advocating $30k unilaterally?  So $30k for Perkins, ditto Pickett, ditto Collins, ditto Cisse, Thames, etc.  Over and above tuition, room, board, degree, etc.  Every parent in America that births a child should push their kids to these heights ... especially with college costs soaring out of control.  I am glad my dealing with that part of life is over.  We got away relatively cheap.  

You were asking to see what players were making. Is it any of your business, no different than is it any of my business what you make? I personally don't think it is any part of anyones business besides the player and those paying him. We don't get details of professional athletes endorsement deals. Those aren't made public, so why should these? 

[Taj79]

NIL Deals: How Much Are Top NCAA Tournament Players Earning? (basketballinsiders.com)

@JMM28:  The link above will take you to the top 10 NIL makers in the 2023 March Madness.  Interesting that none of them made the Final Four.  None.  So someone is tabulating lists like these because there is huge interest in who is getting what around the country.  And I've seen other lists that rank all NIL deals --- like the Cavinder twins at Miami.   Am I being nosy?  Well, yeah.  Seems like a simple question and folks like me are nothing if not mildly curious.  There is enough information out there on pro players as well.  What is Sprite paying LeBron James?  Subway and Steph Curry?  Chris Paul and State Farm?  You can find it if you want.  Me?  I don't really care in that regard.  But college guys I do.

My major interest remains who at SLU gets what.  What will I do with it.  Nothing but satisfy an itch.  

Next year, I will probably walk up to Troy Robertson and ask him the same question only on next year's squad.  He may tellme that is private information and I'll respect that but inquiring minds will always want to know.

We all seem to know what Ford makes.  Coaches are paid to coach and win.  If players are paid to win, came such questions be expected?  I think so.

[Lord Elrond]

1 minute ago, Taj79 said:

NIL Deals: How Much Are Top NCAA Tournament Players Earning? (basketballinsiders.com)

@JMM28:  The link above will take you to the top 10 NIL makers in the 2023 March Madness.  Interesting that none of them made the Final Four.  None.  So someone is tabulating lists like these because there is huge interest in who is getting what around the country.  And I've seen other lists that rank all NIL deals --- like the Cavinder twins at Miami.   Am I being nosy?  Well, yeah.  Seems like a simple question and folks like me are nothing if not mildly curious.  There is enough information out there on pro players as well.  What is Sprite paying LeBron James?  Subway and Steph Curry?  Chris Paul and State Farm?  You can find it if you want.  Me?  I don't really care in that regard.  But college guys I do.

My major interest remains who at SLU gets what.  What will I do with it.  Nothing but satisfy an itch.  

Next year, I will probably walk up to Troy Robertson and ask him the same question only on next year's squad.  He may tellme that is private information and I'll respect that but inquiring minds will always want to know.

We all seem to know what Ford makes.  Coaches are paid to coach and win.  If players are paid to win, came such questions be expected?  I think so.

Plus, it allows the SLU collective to spend its money most effectively. It’s not surprising that the top 10 aren’t playing in the tournament any longer. We have to spend money smarter if we don’t have the biggest pile of cash in the nation.

[Taj79]

@Lord Elrond:  Agreed however this sounds a lot like drafting the next franchise QB.  You know l... guys like Wilson, Darnold, Mayfield, Wentz, Goff, Mariota and many others.  

[JMM28]

25 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

NIL Deals: How Much Are Top NCAA Tournament Players Earning? (basketballinsiders.com)

@JMM28:  The link above will take you to the top 10 NIL makers in the 2023 March Madness.  Interesting that none of them made the Final Four.  None.  So someone is tabulating lists like these because there is huge interest in who is getting what around the country.  And I've seen other lists that rank all NIL deals --- like the Cavinder twins at Miami.   Am I being nosy?  Well, yeah.  Seems like a simple question and folks like me are nothing if not mildly curious.  There is enough information out there on pro players as well.  What is Sprite paying LeBron James?  Subway and Steph Curry?  Chris Paul and State Farm?  You can find it if you want.  Me?  I don't really care in that regard.  But college guys I do.

My major interest remains who at SLU gets what.  What will I do with it.  Nothing but satisfy an itch.  

Next year, I will probably walk up to Troy Robertson and ask him the same question only on next year's squad.  He may tellme that is private information and I'll respect that but inquiring minds will always want to know.

We all seem to know what Ford makes.  Coaches are paid to coach and win.  If players are paid to win, came such questions be expected?  I think so.

The On3 is a valuation algorithm based on social media followers, on court performance, and their school/exposure. They estimate the overall NIL marketplace and each player gets a percentage of that based on their formula result. It isn't what these athletes are making.

Every collective not bound by state disclosure law has a non disclosure clause in their contracts. Troy Robertson will probably tell you what you'd like to hear if you write a high 4 figure check to the BVF.

[TheA_Bomb]

50 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@JMM28:  What does what I make a year have to do with things?  I could tell you that in married filing jointly the $$$ are in the six figures with both my wife and I retired.  But I don't know what that means in terms of your statement.  Care to expand upon that?

@TheA_Bomb:  Are you advocating $30k unilaterally?  So $30k for Perkins, ditto Pickett, ditto Collins, ditto Cisse, Thames, etc.  Over and above tuition, room, board, degree, etc.  Every parent in America that births a child should push their kids to these heights ... especially with college costs soaring out of control.  I am glad my dealing with that part of life is over.  We got away relatively cheap.  

I'm just throwing out some actual validated information and speculation on my part.  If a Texas OLineman makes $50,000 they're in the top level OL recruits in the NCAA. So a SLU BB player maybe less.  Star players of course will/can be more.  Yes I'm speculating that a player baseline average player at a School like SLU can be $30000/season paid NIL above tuition, fees,  room and board.   Yes it's a good deal.  How much has CBS Made on NCAA basketball? How much has Ford made on NCAA basketball? How much has Nike, EA Sports? So now we're talking about players getting some money.  Which the courts have ruled they can just like every other American. 

Every parent in America can push their kids that'd be great but not many have the skill that's why we pay to see them play. 

[Lord Elrond]

17 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@Lord Elrond:  Agreed however this sounds a lot like drafting the next franchise QB.  You know l... guys like Wilson, Darnold, Mayfield, Wentz, Goff, Mariota and many others.  

Plenty of people thought Ryan Leaf would be a better choice at the overall #1 pick rather than Peyton Manning…

[Taj79]

which adds to my point.

[Taj79]

As to Abomb -=--- no issue with getting paid for Name, Image and Likeness.  Big issue with pay for play/enrollment.

[TheA_Bomb]

2 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

As to Abomb -=--- no issue with getting paid for Name, Image and Likeness.  Big issue with pay for play/enrollment.

Too hard to separate the 2 or prove it.  Just embrace the change. 

[Lord Elrond]

15 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Too hard to separate the 2 or prove it.  Just embrace the change. 

Exactly. NIL is just pay for play, it’s hard to argue otherwise. 

[Schasz]

NIL is here and I'd agree with the sentiment of The A_Bomb, no use complaining about. Best to figure out how it can work for SLU Hoops.

[Bay Area Billiken]

M-I-A-M-I (NIL) Fight, Fight, Fight!

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/miami-nil-recruitment-nijel-pack-isaiah-wong-norchad-omier/o7ac30reiefjqbki57rhmgnk

[Bay Area Billiken]

https://twitter.com/mid_madness/status/1640882194863345664?s=46&t=jikm5nKg-NlIUjy2c9C9zw

The NIT has an all-C-USA (for this season) Final, North Texas vs. UAB, both snubbed by the NCAA Tourney Committee/Power 5 Overlord at large bid pilfer.  North Texas, in particular, had an easily NCAA Tourney qualifying NET of 38.  UAB had NET of 57, better than NCAA at large bid recipients 66 Arizona State and 67 Pitt.

RPI?  North Texas 28, UAB 49, and SLU 53, all three of which would be IN the NCAA.  Of course, our Billikens were left OUT of everything.

[Bay Area Billiken]

AZTECS ️