wgstl Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, cheeseman said: My point is the Cards at least get in to lose where as the Bills don’t even get in. Not sure why you are having such a tough time understanding this It’s bs SLU doesn’t have 11 NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 7 years and no top 50 teams at a school who says their goal is to be a top 50 program. That's really my only issue. If the goal has changed, then tell us. But man I just have a feeling about Brooklyn. Mason just has never impressed me and I think we finally break through against VCU. Adman, Littlebill and Bizziken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schasz Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, slufan13 said: 7 years and no top 50 teams at a school who says their goal is to be a top 50 program. That's really my only issue. If the goal has changed, then tell us. But man I just have a feeling about Brooklyn. Mason just has never impressed me and I think we finally break through against VCU. Sure hope that you aren't putting money on that. BC1764 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 hours ago, DOC said: The culture in Fords first 5 years was excellent. Bully ball and teamblue were staples of the program. In the last 2 years it’s dropped off considerably. No argument there. But it’s as much on the players to develop it and spread it to the new players. Guys like Goodwin, Bess and French. Those guys were top notch leaders. We don’t have anyone who comes close to that this year. Thatch was as close as it got to it. But it’s up to ford to recruit to that culture, those kind of men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: But it’s up to ford to recruit to that culture, those kind of men. He recruited all 3 of those guys as well as several other strong leaders. Medley is considered the same type. My point is the culture was exceptional until last year. And yes, he needs to fix it. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BILL FAN Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 I guess only in the sports world is continuity and experience not a valuable tool in building an organization. It seems that the plan many are advocating is give a coach 4 years and if they don’t make it to the top of the heap, blow it up and start over again. Very few schools deviate from that probably because of pressure from vocal critics. But is that the best way to build a program? What is magical about 4 or even 7 years at the same school, maybe they would be better at 10? Most successful businesses do so because of they have had continuity in their leadership and philosophy. A school shouldn’t just look at a Coaches record ( albeit important) but at the progress of the overall program which would include recruiting, relationships with coaches from high schools, sponsors, donors, the media, facilities, and development of players, etc. We have two excellent examples of schools in the A10 who have been successful going this route, Davidson and St Bonaventure. I think in the larger scheme, Coach Ford is building a program that is close to bringing this program to where we all want it to be. I think Chris May is well aware of this as well. Ford is consistently bringing in quality player, we have a big time donor and supporter of the program, the facilities are top notch, our coach is very good with the media, and something not talked about much, he is a quality human being. Talk to some of the fans who attend road games how Ford will take time to visit with them and thank them for their support. No one knows the future, but I like it better with a plan than rolling the dice every few years and hope you get lucky. There was actually a study done a few years ago and it supports some of the points I made with actual data. https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/the-relationship-between-staff-continuity-and-team-performance-part-i/ cgeldmacher and Billikenbooster like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 6 hours ago, billikenfan05 said: IMO, he should have at least acknowledged fan climate. I hate buzzwords, but it almost reached gaslighting the way he talked about this season. Don't treat fans like they are stupid. He could have easily said, this season has been tough, Travis Ford is our coach and Brooklyn is a "new opportunity" for this team. In fact, I've been around Chris May enough to know that's exactly something that would come out of his mouth. I've seen him be non-committal on countless occasions. So is that a good thing or a bad thing? What is anAD supposed to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 11 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said: I guess only in the sports world is continuity and experience not a valuable tool in building an organization. It seems that the plan many are advocating is give a coach 4 years and if they don’t make it to the top of the heap, blow it up and start over again. Very few schools deviate from that probably because of pressure from vocal critics. But is that the best way to build a program? What is magical about 4 or even 7 years at the same school, maybe they would be better at 10? Most successful businesses do so because of they have had continuity in their leadership and philosophy. A school shouldn’t just look at a Coaches record ( albeit important) but at the progress of the overall program which would include recruiting, relationships with coaches from high schools, sponsors, donors, the media, facilities, and development of players, etc. We have two excellent examples of schools in the A10 who have been successful going this route, Davidson and St Bonaventure. I think in the larger scheme, Coach Ford is building a program that is close to bringing this program to where we all want it to be. I think Chris May is well aware of this as well. Ford is consistently bringing in quality player, we have a big time donor and supporter of the program, the facilities are top notch, our coach is very good with the media, and something not talked about much, he is a quality human being. Talk to some of the fans who attend road games how Ford will take time to visit with them and thank them for their support. No one knows the future, but I like it better with a plan than rolling the dice every few years and hope you get lucky. There was actually a study done a few years ago and it supports some of the points I made with actual data. https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/the-relationship-between-staff-continuity-and-team-performance-part-i/ Actually the link you provided focus mostly on the tenure of the entire staff not the head coach. Granted when the head coach leaves so do the assistants but in this study it showed staff turnover to be high as one might expect given assistants are looking to improve their status. Continuity tends to be somewhat subjective. Is 5 years good or 10 better there is no data to support or not to support this idea. I guess one could say if a coach and his staff are around multiple years it would probably be because they are being successful in somebody’s eyes at least so looking only at programs that have their coach around a long time as evidence to support the idea of continuity as being good is a skewed way of viewing the matter. They would not be around all that time if they were not being successful hence why get rid of them. Now the question of if Ford is building or stagnating our program is once again subjective and based solely on a person criteria for evaluating the program. Until consensus is reached on how to evaluate Ford it is only a matter of opinion. In my humble opinion if the program is not a top 50 regularly then it is stagnating I base this on the idea that you should get what you pay for and we aren’t getting that from Ford. If the school has now changed its goal then let’s save money and stop gigging the donors and season ticket holders on prices. Also next year will be 8 years when is long enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 hours ago, willie said: So is that a good thing or a bad thing? What is anAD supposed to say? -pretty much this but he could have wordsmithed it better -perhaps he was shocked Frank asked the question, not like Frank to throw a fastball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUMS81 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Maybe we could convince Jim Boeheim to become the assistant head coach. Quite a track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewsorlose Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 23 hours ago, Schasz said: Like your post and agree with many of your points. Besides Traore we also lost the other smaller athlete (sorry can't remember his name) too. He would also have contributed this year too. Ford has been awful in teaching the super athletic players how to play college hoops. It's one thing to recruit potential gems but an entirely different thing to coach them up. That is a Huge failure in Ford as a HC. I fear that the fringe supporters of SLU hoops won't wait after this year's disappointment. They will not spend their money on SLU hoops. That is on the AD May if he does decide to keep Ford. Lesser crowds at Chaifetz next year is lost revenue for SLU and again that's on AD May if he does stay with Ford. For sure. That's what makes SLU hoops so precarious. There are a few real loyalists. But it's not like the Cubs, where people come out because it's fun and they like Wrigley Field. People were amped about this season. That Memphis crowd was awesome. Many national writers had SLU on the fringe of the top 25. This team has STUNK. They don't like playing for the coach (ask around). I've had season tix for 5 years and my kids enjoy the games but I may not renew next year. Chaifetz will be a morgue next year. You can be a screaming maniac if you're a great coach. Not so much if you're a fringe top-100 NCAA coach. Schasz likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said: Maybe we could convince Jim Boeheim to become the assistant head coach. Quite a track record. it's always been my opinion that boeheim is one of the original "good recruiter, bad floor coach" guys. he is likely who ford aspires to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 hours ago, cheeseman said: Actually the link you provided focus mostly on the tenure of the entire staff not the head coach. Granted when the head coach leaves so do the assistants but in this study it showed staff turnover to be high as one might expect given assistants are looking to improve their status. Continuity tends to be somewhat subjective. Is 5 years good or 10 better there is no data to support or not to support this idea. I guess one could say if a coach and his staff are around multiple years it would probably be because they are being successful in somebody’s eyes at least so looking only at programs that have their coach around a long time as evidence to support the idea of continuity as being good is a skewed way of viewing the matter. They would not be around all that time if they were not being successful hence why get rid of them. Now the question of if Ford is building or stagnating our program is once again subjective and based solely on a person criteria for evaluating the program. Until consensus is reached on how to evaluate Ford it is only a matter of opinion. In my humble opinion if the program is not a top 50 regularly then it is stagnating I base this on the idea that you should get what you pay for and we aren’t getting that from Ford. If the school has now changed its goal then let’s save money and stop gigging the donors and season ticket holders on prices. Also next year will be 8 years when is long enough? biondi told grawer he wanted a top 50 program and didnt give him the resources to do it, it is only recently the top resources became available , the conference doesnt produce top 50 programs on a regular basis, so that needs to be taken into context. if the net is the rating tool it is so highly favored toward p6 it is difficult to be rated highly outside of the power guys. there certainly might be a better guy than ford out there, we dont know, but to grade him as a trash coach as many do it a very poor take Billikenbooster and DOC like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimelistenerfirsttimec Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 you are comparing the cubs a major league baseball team to a college team? I believe that people who are so upset with ford have realized that they care more than the players do about wins and loses and they are mad at that fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 People are complaining about May's comments, but they are just that, comments. If he has the backing, I think he'd be willing to make a move. He has shown the willingness to make tough calls with coaching changes. He fired Sodie after a 20-win season and Stone after she showed significant progress with the program but couldn't get the team over the hump. The Stone firing particularly felt like a head scratcher at the time. Now look where we're at. If the money wants Ford out, I think that's what will happen. Let's also see what happens this week. Hopefully the seniors are as hungry as they sound. Box and Won and billiken_roy like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 12 hours ago, willie said: So is that a good thing or a bad thing? What is anAD supposed to say? Again, I think he could have at least paid lip service to the fans. Give us a little dog whistle, let us know he hears the frustration in this season. Instead he essentially told us we're not watching this team do what it's done all season and that clearly he knows better than we do, the fans that have watched this program since long before he arrived. Saying that this team has bought in over the last two weeks is as hilarious as it is insulting. Bizziken and cheeseman like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, SShoe said: People are complaining about May's comments, but they are just that, comments. If he has the backing, I think he'd be willing to make a move. He has shown the willingness to make tough calls with coaching changes. He fired Sodie after a 20-win season and Stone after she showed significant progress with the program but couldn't get the team over the hump. The Stone firing particularly felt like a head scratcher at the time. Now look where we're at. If the money wants Ford out, I think that's what will happen. Let's also see what happens this week. Hopefully the seniors are as hungry as they sound. I don't love the power dynamic with Ford and May. It really seems as though Ford has May under his thumb in a lot of ways. TaLBErt likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: I don't love the power dynamic with Ford and May. It really seems as though Ford has May under his thumb in a lot of ways. Its not so much an issue now but if things go south quick, feels like May will let it continue way longer than it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, dennis_w said: biondi told grawer he wanted a top 50 program and didnt give him the resources to do it, it is only recently the top resources became available , the conference doesnt produce top 50 programs on a regular basis, so that needs to be taken into context. if the net is the rating tool it is so highly favored toward p6 it is difficult to be rated highly outside of the power guys. there certainly might be a better guy than ford out there, we dont know, but to grade him as a trash coach as many do it a very poor take Just because the A10 may not regularly produce a bevy of top 50 teams doesn’t preclude us from being one. The two are not mutually exclusive. I never mentioned the NET. Others have pointed out different metrics. Use whatever metric you want but being a top 50 program on a somewhat regular status is mine. People often comment on the quality of facilities and other pieces available to players along with our overpaid coach (highest in the A10) so reaching this goal is not out of the question. I have never said he is a trash coach just that he has not delivered at the level expected for what he is given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, cheeseman said: Just because the A10 may not regularly produce a bevy of top 50 teams doesn’t preclude us from being one. The two are not mutually exclusive. I never mentioned the NET. Others have pointed out different metrics. Use whatever metric you want but being a top 50 program on a somewhat regular status is mine. People often comment on the quality of facilities and other pieces available to players along with our overpaid coach (highest in the A10) so reaching this goal is not out of the question. I have never said he is a trash coach just that he has not delivered at the level expected for what he is given. you may not have called ford trash but many have, of course top 50 is possible but in the a-10 it is difficult because of the way ratings are determined, ie a loss in the a-10 is considered bad but a loss in a power conference isnt looked at the same way. what metric would you use to say top 50? at large bids are very scarce outside of the power conferences so if that is the metric the margin is very slim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, SShoe said: People are complaining about May's comments, but they are just that, comments. If he has the backing, I think he'd be willing to make a move. He has shown the willingness to make tough calls with coaching changes. He fired Sodie after a 20-win season and Stone after she showed significant progress with the program but couldn't get the team over the hump. The Stone firing particularly felt like a head scratcher at the time. Now look where we're at. If the money wants Ford out, I think that's what will happen. Let's also see what happens this week. Hopefully the seniors are as hungry as they sound. May was not here when Sodie was fired. SShoe likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, dennis_w said: you may not have called ford trash but many have, of course top 50 is possible but in the a-10 it is difficult because of the way ratings are determined, ie a loss in the a-10 is considered bad but a loss in a power conference isnt looked at the same way. what metric would you use to say top 50? at large bids are very scarce outside of the power conferences so if that is the metric the margin is very slim This is a little harsh. Perhaps one person has said this, most just think we can do better. I love Ford as a person way too much to even think like that. cheeseman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, cheeseman said: May was not here when Sodie was fired. I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 10 minutes ago, cheeseman said: May was not here when Sodie was fired. -correct, my recollection is Fr Biondi wanted Coach Majerus, Cheryl Levick did not and she left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, cheeseman said: May was not here when Sodie was fired. now that you say that, i agree cheryl levick was the AD and biondi went around her. i remember that now and it led to her resignation. SShoe likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.