Very Interesting...

[Billikenbooster]

Expectations…..every disappointed comment starts with the expectations. Perk is 80% of what he wanted, GJ had a mid season slump, lose FT late in the season, the ‘glue guy’. These things add up

[cheeseman]

I have a solution- can we all just agree to give everybody a participation trophy. 

[TheChosenOne]

1 hour ago, Billikenbooster said:

Expectations…..every disappointed comment starts with the expectations. Perk is 80% of what he wanted, GJ had a mid season slump, lose FT late in the season, the ‘glue guy’. These things add up

We can eliminate expectations from the discussion and just say we are an average team this season. We are #102 in the NET rankings and #103 in Pomeroy with a roster of 4th and 5th year guys. Regardless of expectations, this team isn't overly good nor enjoyable to watch.

[billiken_roy]

26 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

............. this team isn't overly good nor enjoyable to watch.

oh there were plenty of enjoyable moments.   but the less than 5 minute mark excrutiating moments erase a lot of good memories.  

[VeniceMenace]

6 hours ago, dennis_w said:

the supposed top player doesnt fully recover from a major injury  and has another lingering injury, two other top of the rotation players injured one lost for the season and still win 20 games and season isnt over yet. the word may not be exceptional , but certainly solid coaching. not many teams lose top three players and do well, rickma lost his top two players and had a losing record, the fire ford crowd is delusional in there thought processes about what makes a good coach and team

Excuses. Thatch played 29 minutes vs SIUE & EVERY team has injuries during the season.

[longtimelistenerfirsttimec]

what % of winning a game is coaching vs players?

[dennis_w]

4 hours ago, VeniceMenace said:

Excuses. Thatch played 29 minutes vs SIUE & EVERY team has injuries during the season.

every team does not have major injuries, i get it you hate ford, but you lack basketball knowledge. unfortunately for the fire ford crowd they will have to suffer for another year

[dennis_w]

3 hours ago, longtimelistenerfirsttimec said:

what % of winning a game is coaching vs players?

i think it was lou holtz said it aint the x's and the o;s its the jimmies and joes

[TheA_Bomb]

5 hours ago, dennis_w said:

every team does not have major injuries, i get it you hate ford, but you lack basketball knowledge. unfortunately for the fire ford crowd they will have to suffer for another year

We'll all suffer together. 

[Littlebill]

7 hours ago, dennis_w said:

every team does not have major injuries, i get it you hate ford, but you lack basketball knowledge. unfortunately for the fire ford crowd they will have to suffer for another year

Dennis, we were 100% healthy for SIUE. Perkins had 23. Even if we did win a couple more games that we lost, that is a game that keeps us out of the tournament.

the only injury we’ve dealt with in the second half of the season is we lost a 6 ppg guy. If we lost Thatch when he was playing like he was in 2022 conference play, that would make a difference. You can blame the disappointing season on a lot of things. Injuries is not one of them. 
 

we didn’t have Perkins last year, yet we were considerably worse this year. Why?
 

At the end of the day, the way this roster was constructed wasn’t good enough. In every game post that SIUE loss, the whole was less than the sum of its parts. I’m not as down on Ford’s in-game coaching as many here. I’m not as down on Yuri as many are. He’s an elite PG nationally who had too long of a leash at times. That’s it.

 

Ultimately, there are entirely too many holes on this roster. They were obvious from the beginning of the off-season, and they didn’t get filled.

What was the plan when Perkins wasn’t ready yet? There wasn’t one. Pickett is easily (imo) the most disappointing Billiken newcomer relative to expectations in recent memory. Was a huge huge liability post GW - a big reason why we were outside the top 100 for that stretch. But he continued to have an absolute green light. That’s unacceptable.

What was the plan for when Yuri had to sit for foul trouble, fatigue, whatever? LH2 has been very good the last couple weeks, but that certainly wasn’t the case the first 75% of the year. Not because he wasn’t a good player, he was just still getting used to this level. Was Thatch the plan? Did we rely on an injury-prone 2/3, who isn’t as quick as he used to be, to give our ultra-high usage PG a rest?

We ran into times last season where a lack of a real third big hurt us. We lost a very reliable second big, and our project third big decided to leave. How did we attempt to plug that hole? Another injury-prone player whose body could not compete with a physical big. Played well against undersized 5’s but just couldn’t compete. The project third big wasn’t good enough. With all that being said, Okoro took a giant step back this season. He was good defensively once again, but took a big step back on O. We didn’t have the depth to spell Franco if he was hurt, or how it ended up: him taking a step back for a huge chunk of the season.

Undersized wings: we threw four guards out there at all times. We didn’t hVe the option to do anything else. TJ and Pickett were really our only two options if the other team played a true PF. Guys like Brandon Johns killed us. We didn’t have anyone to guard them. We never brought in anyone who could guard that guy. I know we attempted to in the off-season with a guy like Andrew Carr, but ultimately no one like that is on this roster. 
 

There are other criticisms of Ford/Staff/May certainly. I really like Ford as a person and as an ambassador of the program. I think he is someone who is easy to root for because he roots for his guys.

I just honestly don’t know how you can watch what we’ve been watching night in and night out and continue to think that the way we’ve been going is okay. We really might finish outside of the top 100. 100! It’s not because we don’t have enough talent. It’s not because of injuries. We didn’t have very many. It’s not because of the P6s or NET or whatever some of the old school MM guys want to blame. We lost too many games we should have or had to win. This roster had entirely too many holes. It’s easy to break down a team with too many holes to expose. 
 

You just can’t really defend the result of the season, how it has worked out. You can’t. 
 

edit. PS: Collins and Jimerson are both some of the all-time great Billikens. Really fantastic players. Zero NCAAs.

[dennis_w]

perkins was never 100% healthy he lost a lot of mobility, thatch was greatly missed down the stretch and pickett had a snagging leg that limited his play, i never said there was not some disappointing losses, but firing ford and getting an unknown quantity in my opinion is a very risky move. eleven teams in the conference would have like the billikens record, be careful what you wish for. getting a top 25 roster at the a-10 level is a tall task and everything has to fall into place and it happens rarely

[cheeseman]

59 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

perkins was never 100% healthy he lost a lot of mobility, thatch was greatly missed down the stretch and pickett had a snagging leg that limited his play, i never said there was not some disappointing losses, but firing ford and getting an unknown quantity in my opinion is a very risky move. eleven teams in the conference would have like the billikens record, be careful what you wish for. getting a top 25 roster at the a-10 level is a tall task and everything has to fall into place and it happens rarely

What about VCU Dayton and Fordam. We should aspire to be more than the bottom 11 teams. 

[Littlebill]

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

perkins was never 100% healthy he lost a lot of mobility, thatch was greatly missed down the stretch and pickett had a snagging leg that limited his play, i never said there was not some disappointing losses, but firing ford and getting an unknown quantity in my opinion is a very risky move. eleven teams in the conference would have like the billikens record, be careful what you wish for. getting a top 25 roster at the a-10 level is a tall task and everything has to fall into place and it happens rarely

But isn’t that the point though? I guess personally I’m so disappointed in the record/results because I think we’re better than the a10. ESPECIALLY in this current state. The league is what it is this year and we’re no better than it.

 

(Edit) and fwiw, your points make sense. My greater point in my last post was saying that there were a ton of weaknesses/questions/unknowns going into the season, and they weren’t addressed.

[cheeseman]

4 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

But isn’t that the point though? I guess personally I’m so disappointed in the record/results because I think we’re better than the a10. ESPECIALLY in this current state. The league is what it is this year and we’re no better than it

Bill Parcels

[dennis_w]

1 minute ago, Littlebill said:

But isn’t that the point though? I guess personally I’m so disappointed in the record/results because I think we’re better than the a10. ESPECIALLY in this current state. The league is what it is this year and we’re no better than it

fact is we are in the a-10 and aspirations of better are great, i wanted a pony when i was young , but my dad gave me a bicycle, i didnt moan and ***** about not getting a pony i rode the bike, dream on , but be careful about burning down the building, you can bet schools will use this bitching against the billikens and tell them that ford is on the hot seat "dont" go there, 

[cheeseman]

We are in A10 because people in power did not aspire to be better. I guess Creighton should have been happy in the MVC. When you have no goals you never accomplish anything great. This has been the age old problem we have the Billikens fan base is split - one wants to be the Zags of the Midwest and the other wants to just be.  Where is the American Exceptionalism we are supposed to be known for. The real question is why can’t we be better?  As far as other teams using what is said on the board against us - well you reap what you sow. As FDR said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. 

[BC1764]

That attitude is within the Cardinals fanbase too regarding Mo and DeWitt.

[wgstl]

41 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

What about VCU Dayton and Fordam. We should aspire to be more than the bottom 11 teams. 

Could definitely make an argument vcu and UD had worse injury luck 

[johnbj14]

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

perkins was never 100% healthy he lost a lot of mobility, thatch was greatly missed down the stretch and pickett had a snagging leg that limited his play, i never said there was not some disappointing losses, but firing ford and getting an unknown quantity in my opinion is a very risky move. eleven teams in the conference would have like the billikens record, be careful what you wish for. getting a top 25 roster at the a-10 level is a tall task and everything has to fall into place and it happens rarely

Sure, firing a coach is a risky move, and the AD has pretty much assured they aren’t taking on that risk this year. I truly hope Travis wins here. As others have said he is a good ambassador for the program, and the personal trauma he’s had here makes me root for him even harder. However, he needs to have answers for how a season like this isn’t going to happen again. They’ve regressed from a top 75 team to one just outside the top 100. That’s really concerning for a team that he said could be his best ever. I’m pretty confident SLU will never bottom out under Travis. I’m not confident we’ll ever become a consistent NCAA Tournament team. Which for what he’s paid should 100% be the expectation. My fear is that instead of taking on risk, the AD and fans will just grow apathetic, and accept that these results of being on the outside looking in are fine. 

[cheeseman]

16 minutes ago, BC1764 said:

That attitude is within the Cardinals fanbase too regarding Mo and DeWitt.

At least the Cards make the Dance

[JMM28]

With the amount of money being pumped into the program, top 100 is the absolute floor. Anyone saying, through their chattering teeth, "we can't afford to fire Ford because what if we can't get another mediocre coach!" suffers from low expectations. 

[dennis_w]

12 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Sure, firing a coach is a risky move, and the AD has pretty much assured they aren’t taking on that risk this year. I truly hope Travis wins here. As others have said he is a good ambassador for the program, and the personal trauma he’s had here makes me root for him even harder. However, he needs to have answers for how a season like this isn’t going to happen again. They’ve regressed from a top 75 team to one just outside the top 100. That’s really concerning for a team that he said could be his best ever. I’m pretty confident SLU will never bottom out under Travis. I’m not confident we’ll ever become a consistent NCAA Tournament team. Which for what he’s paid should 100% be the expectation. My fear is that instead of taking on risk, the AD and fans will just grow apathetic, and accept that these results of being on the outside looking in are fine. 

dont you think we should wait until the season is over before declaring it a disaster? odds might be low but the "dance" is still in play until it isnt. we will know more after tomorrow

[cheeseman]

15 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

dont you think we should wait until the season is over before declaring it a disaster? odds might be low but the "dance" is still in play until it isnt. we will know more after tomorrow

You make a fair point but catching lightening in a bottle does not address the long term systemic issues. 

[johnbj14]

14 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

dont you think we should wait until the season is over before declaring it a disaster? odds might be low but the "dance" is still in play until it isnt. we will know more after tomorrow

Sure, that’s fine to wait. But this season has been a disappointment as a whole. The expectation outlined by the staff was that this would be an at-large quality team. Instead, they eeked out 12 wins in one of the weakest A-10 seasons of the last 20 years and lost several games when leading at halftime. I’d love to see them win 3 games and make the tournament. That small sample won’t fully alleviate concerns I have about how this staff builds rosters and struggles making in-game adjustments. 

[wgstl]

18 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

dont you think we should wait until the season is over before declaring it a disaster? odds might be low but the "dance" is still in play until it isnt. we will know more after tomorrow

No. As we've talked about before, even if we win in Brooklyn, that's more luck than anything. Ford and the team blew their chance at proving they are actually a decent team and decent coach. The ship has sailed "on lets just let the season finish out".  Last time this was brought up we had 7 or 8 games left where I was like, fine, that's fair.  Winning the A10T given how the season went and how bad the A10 was is still a failed season to some degree. The best outcome of a failed season, sure. 

 

There's a reason why real teams make the at large, and lucky teams just win the Conf Tourney.  

I would just love to know are people in favor of Ford at least a little frustrated with him?  Based on how it sounds here, those folks would sign another extension today if they could.