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Rightly or wrongly, whether many want to admit it or not


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11 hours ago, JMM28 said:

Every other sport could be on a 10 year conference title run, but if men’s basketball is really bad - the AD gets fired. Just how it is. 

I have no skin in the game other than the $ I spend on Billiken basketball and gear, but for as hard as those other athletes or students work at their craft—I just can’t get that excited about a rowing or cross country championship. I feel like “yay for them, good job”, but the mens basketball team can be in the midst of a 7 year level of mediocrity and pull off the upset of a Top 10 team at home and I’m “YEAH!  Take that you &$@?!!! BILLIKENS BABY!”  There’s just no level of interest in anything other than basketball or football for me.  I have to believe this is the norm for most fans.

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Anybody know how many D1 sports exist at SLU?  The answer is 16 ---- seven for the men and nine for the women.  The men have the flagship program namely basketball.  The others are 'niche' sports -- soccer, cross country, baseball, track & field, swimming and diving and tennis.  I  know, I know --- folks will argue against the classification for soccer and baseball.    Isn't that the vocal niche?  The women's side is all the same (softball for baseball) and the additions of field hockey and volleyball.  Realistically, short of soccer, we don't really compete on a national level.  And if we had the national champion in say the javelin, who would really care?  I could see cutting upwards of 12 of those programs but I doubt some rule, namely Title IX, would let you.

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2 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Anybody know how many D1 sports exist at SLU?  The answer is 16 ---- seven for the men and nine for the women.  The men have the flagship program namely basketball.  The others are 'niche' sports -- soccer, cross country, baseball, track & field, swimming and diving and tennis.  I  know, I know --- folks will argue against the classification for soccer and baseball.    Isn't that the vocal niche?  The women's side is all the same (softball for baseball) and the additions of field hockey and volleyball.  Realistically, short of soccer, we don't really compete on a national level.  And if we had the national champion in say the javelin, who would really care?  I could see cutting upwards of 12 of those programs but I doubt some rule, namely Title IX, would let you.

Disappointing to realize there will never be a local football program to root for other than Mizzou or The Illini.  With the rules as they are, they would have to cut so many mens programs so the scholarships would be “fair” for women’s sports.  You should be able to stand on your own.  If the Golf Team can’t get enough $$ generated on their own then start having car washes lol.  Not trying to “get cancelled”, it’s just the facts are the facts.  Other than a very select group of people—nobody pays ANY attention to the other sports.  I mean look across town at Wash U women’s basketball and the success they have had.  Yeah it’s a different level, but even a proven winning program struggles to generate $$.  I would venture to guess even the UConn women would be in the red if it wasn’t for the UConn Mens program.  Don’t even get me started on the WNBA losing money…it’s just how supply and demand works.  Until the day comes that the govt forces me to watch the WNBA to make things “equitable”, I have no interest in wasting the time to do it.  

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9 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Disappointing to realize there will never be a local football program to root for other than Mizzou or The Illini.  With the rules as they are, they would have to cut so many mens programs so the scholarships would be “fair” for women’s sports.  You should be able to stand on your own.  If the Golf Team can’t get enough $$ generated on their own then start having car washes lol.  Not trying to “get cancelled”, it’s just the facts are the facts.  Other than a very select group of people—nobody pays ANY attention to the other sports.  I mean look across town at Wash U women’s basketball and the success they have had.  Yeah it’s a different level, but even a proven winning program struggles to generate $$.  I would venture to guess even the UConn women would be in the red if it wasn’t for the UConn Mens program.  Don’t even get me started on the WNBA losing money…it’s just how supply and demand works.  Until the day comes that the govt forces me to watch the WNBA to make things “equitable”, I have no interest in wasting the time to do it.  

Lindenwood football is in D1 (FCS).

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I think story of this season has not been completed yet.  If we get swept by Dayton and VCU and drop another one at Richmond or another at home, I dont see how they can retain Travis.     If TF gets fired, I think it will be entirely because they lose so many damn home games and look terrible doing it.   Thats how you lose/turn off bandwagon fans.   Who would want to go see them if there is a chance of SIUE or Boise State level effort?   I wish there was a little more "this sh#t has to stop now" fight from the players, but I'm not sensing that at all.   Is that because of the head coach??  I dont know.  

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This is just my opinion, but I think many D1 players if they’re honest with themselves know that they will not be earning a income from a playing career after college. There’s also the faction That truly believes they have a shot— or if they work hard enough, they can get paid to play professionally. I would never criticize anyone for chasing their dream, but I wonder how many players just see this has a entry level job and just go through the motions so to speak, trying to get the attention of some scout while working on their craft?  Yuri thinks he is a power five guard, or even a NBA guard.  If you’re trying to make a name for yourself, he already is known for assists, but was he told he needs to shoot more? Is the NIL money taking the drive to succeed at the collegiate level away from someone like Yuri, and replaced with a desire to be noticed more?  Has the NIL money and chasing a NBA contract made it so that at the seven minute mark left in the game you look up and have 10 assists but only four points, you feel like you need to get more points to pad your numbers?  Is this why he decides to drive into the trees to get the ball slapped away so many times? Driving and getting the ball stuffed down your throat or throwing up a prayer doesn’t count against your stats as a turnover, but it’s just as costly.  Add those stupid decisions to his stats as a TO and his numbers look ALOT worse.  There’s still a good opportunity to lose a lot of games going down the stretch, and I hope Travis has a “come to Jesus” moment and wakes up.  Get control of your players.  There hasn’t been fire (besides Fred and TJ) since Bess (sweating his butt off playing 39 min), Goodwin, and French.  SIT SOME BUTTS ON THE BENCH!  It can’t be any worse than lazy play!

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4 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

If you're a rotation guy on a decent mid major or above team, you can make money playing basketball professionally. It isn't just NBA or bust. 

I completely agree, and I say go for it!  You get to play a game you love overseas and get paid, but some guys who are actually good players are still interested in their degree and life after basketball.  Someone like Fred comes to mind.  Would he have pursued a career playing if he hadn’t gotten hurt?  Doubt it but who knows.

I will say this—if this group can’t figure something out and win the A10 tournament and the Automatic Bid…I don’t care if they win all of the rest or lose all of the rest.  If they win out, only to lose in the Championship and not get a bid (no way possible they get a at-large), I’d rather them stink the place up and force May to make a decision.  That may ruffle some feathers, but I’m done with no NCAA bids.

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The NCAA expanded its tourney (I think) in the late 70's.  Let's say 1979.  That;s abouit 44 years (minus one for COVID) and we have 8 tournament appearances.  Two were answered prayers (once in Memphis another in Brooklyn).  On merit, that is five invites over about 40 years or a success rate of about 16%.  To me, the numbers are maddening.  

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15 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

The NCAA expanded its tourney (I think) in the late 70's.  Let's say 1979.  That;s abouit 44 years (minus one for COVID) and we have 8 tournament appearances.  Two were answered prayers (once in Memphis another in Brooklyn).  On merit, that is five invites over about 40 years or a success rate of about 16%.  To me, the numbers are maddening.  

Contrast that with Murray State who has  made 18.  In no way am I advocating moving to the OVC, just pointing out some mid major success.  At this point, I would kill for the success Murray State had in a a mostly 1bid conference.  This version of the A10 is getting ONE bid.  Playing it n conferences that would almost always get multi-bids—-this is a miserable stat you bring up.  With the history Murray has, I think they will be able to pull off the jump in competition in the MVC.  It’s one of the schools I pull for, so hoping for their continued success.

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2 hours ago, BANGheGOTit said:

I completely agree, and I say go for it!  You get to play a game you love overseas and get paid, but some guys who are actually good players are still interested in their degree and life after basketball.  Someone like Fred comes to mind.  Would he have pursued a career playing if he hadn’t gotten hurt?  Doubt it but who knows.

I will say this—if this group can’t figure something out and win the A10 tournament and the Automatic Bid…I don’t care if they win all of the rest or lose all of the rest.  If they win out, only to lose in the Championship and not get a bid (no way possible they get a at-large), I’d rather them stink the place up and force May to make a decision.  That may ruffle some feathers, but I’m done with no NCAA bids.

As to not NCAA Bids (me too)...only 1 in Ford's 7 years which is not enough!!!

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4 minutes ago, Schasz said:

As to not NCAA Bids (me too)...only 1 in Ford's 7 years which is not enough!!!

Not when he’s paid $2+ mm. 
One observation. I always thought a Ford strength was his maintaining good relations with his players. Anyone else get the feeling some of these relationships might not be so good? I base this on nothing other than they tend to drift for 10-15 mpg and next thing you know it’s an L. 

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3 hours ago, OkieBilliken said:

I think story of this season has not been completed yet.  If we get swept by Dayton and VCU and drop another one at Richmond or another at home, I dont see how they can retain Travis.     If TF gets fired, I think it will be entirely because they lose so many damn home games and look terrible doing it.   Thats how you lose/turn off bandwagon fans.   Who would want to go see them if there is a chance of SIUE or Boise State level effort?   I wish there was a little more "this sh#t has to stop now" fight from the players, but I'm not sensing that at all.   Is that because of the head coach??  I dont know.  

Ya, The home court advantage seems very minimal with this team. At least Boise's defense is ranked #9 in the nation, but VCU and SIUE should never be losses at home. 

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17 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Not when he’s paid $2+ mm. 
One observation. I always thought a Ford strength was his maintaining good relations with his players. Anyone else get the feeling some of these relationships might not be so good? I base this on nothing other than they tend to drift for 10-15 mpg and next thing you know it’s an L. 

I’ve felt like Travis lost this team going back to last season.  I can’t help but wonder if the Yuri NIT game was the beginning of it.  It may have happened way before that.  Couple that NIT bs injury (in my opinion), the effort that was extended to keep Yuri from transferring, and Travis saying Yuri asked him not to put goals on this season…I seriously questioned who was in control. That told me all I needed to know about Yuri Collins.  Maybe I’m wrong but I interpret that conversation with Travis as being all about Yuri watching out for Yuri.  Can he not handle the pressure of goals, or was it a different goal he was trying to achieve?  This team has no fight, save for a 4-8 minute stretch and then they’re done.  I still worry the NIL money is affecting the desire to win.  

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On 2/6/2023 at 12:50 PM, billiken_roy said:

dayton

@billiken_roy or @wgstlmentioned something about the 5 year rebuild timeframe…pretty sure it was @billiken_roy but sorry if I’m mistaken…anyway, my question is this.  Isn’t this already going to be a rebuilding process after this season?  Yuri, Fred, Franco, Pickett, Perkins…all gone.  TJ, Parker, and Larry Jr are the only ones getting ANY time this season.  How is this already not in rebuilding mode?  Because we have a couple guys on the bench that have seen zero to maybe 10 min all year?  Who even knows if the current recruits actually ever wear a Billiken uniform.  This is it!  THIS last 4-6 weeks is the determining factor in not only if Ford keeps his job, but what effect does this stretch have on the roster moving forward.  SLU is not reloading, they are rebuilding like it or not.

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8 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

@billiken_roy or @wgstlmentioned something about the 5 year rebuild timeframe…pretty sure it was @billiken_roy but sorry if I’m mistaken…anyway, my question is this.  Isn’t this already going to be a rebuilding process after this season?  Yuri, Fred, Franco, Pickett, Perkins…all gone.  TJ, Parker, and Larry Jr are the only ones getting ANY time this season.  How is this already not in rebuilding mode?  Because we have a couple guys on the bench that have seen zero to maybe 10 min all year?  Who even knows if the current recruits actually ever wear a Billiken uniform.  This is it!  THIS last 4-6 weeks is the determining factor in not only if Ford keeps his job, but what effect does this stretch have on the roster moving forward.  SLU is not reloading, they are rebuilding like it or not.

It was Roy

and from the outside looking in, yes it feels and looks like a rebuild will happen.  But we have no clue if Ford has talked with GJ about coming back next year.  Im sure Parker and THJ would be back. If this is the case, we're looking at adding 2 starters.  and bringing in a few bench players.  Its not a full on rebuild you would have with a new coach. 

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10 minutes ago, wgstl said:

It was Roy

and from the outside looking in, yes it feels and looks like a rebuild will happen.  But we have no clue if Ford has talked with GJ about coming back next year.  Im sure Parker and THJ would be back. If this is the case, we're looking at adding 2 starters.  and bringing in a few bench players.  Its not a full on rebuild you would have with a new coach. 

Yeah I forgot all about Gibby! I guess I just assumed he was going to be gone in the portalYeah I forgot all about Gibby! I guess I just assumed he was going to be gone in the portal

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I'm not saying this is the correct way to look at things, but I think the AD at SLU should be judged 90 to 95% on the success of the basketball team. I, along with many of the other graduates in my circle of friends, truly only care about the success of the basketball team.

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@BANGheGOTit:  this is directed solely about your last line about NIL money affecting winning:  what NIL money?  Until I (or anyone else for that matter) know exactly who is getting what and how much (and if it's even happening at SLU) the pro or con on the point is indefensible.  Again we don't know, which makes it pure speculation.  

I have heard someone bucked up for Yuri.  It was in direct competition with the supposed Tennessee offer.  I've heard names but don't feel comfortable divulging them.  Because it's third person removed.  I have heard nothing on additional NIL dollars being handed over to other players.  I've heard Perkins but can neither confirm nor deny it.

And I use the term 'handed over' because while I don't begrudge kids making money off their NAME, IMAGE and LIKENESS, I do have a problem with pay-for-play.  Fred Thatch getting money from Two Men and a Garden is okay in my book.  Thatch getting some proceeds from his basketball camp in Sikeston is okay.  Kids going to a car dealer and getting money for signing autographs is okay (the Penn State QB did this).  Kids getting free use of an advertised Tesla while on campus is questionable --- what college kid is going out to buy a Tesla?  Armando Bacot getting $1 million or Nigel Pack getting $200k is not okay no matter how much back peddling is done to claim it's a NIL deal.  Who else o our roster is 'deserving' of pay-for-play?  What are we paying Nick Kramer?  Or better yet, when does Nick enter the realm of a kid deserving of such pay-for-play?  Surely not this year but when?  How does one determine a sliding scale?  

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@Taj79 I, like a lot of people am strictly speculating that Yuri for NIL money or someone to back his clothing or shoe line.  I have a hard time believing this was something started out of his dorm room.  There were reports of NIL $ from TN, boosters have complained about the NIL $ they are asked for.  Seriously doubt Yuri’s change of heart wasn’t connected to some $$.  Speculation on my part.  It’s also simply my question or speculation that getting NIL money could have taint your game.

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1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Not when he’s paid $2+ mm. 
One observation. I always thought a Ford strength was his maintaining good relations with his players. Anyone else get the feeling some of these relationships might not be so good? I base this on nothing other than they tend to drift for 10-15 mpg and next thing you know it’s an L. 

I alluded to this a few weeks ago when we were going through the first hiccup.  I have no direct knowledge of the situation but normally when you hear the boss say things like they are not playing for each other or they aren't carrying out the plan - same things he is saying now -  that usually means in any organization that the leadership has lost the confidence.  This pattern seems to happen often on his teams so who really knows.

 

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How unbelievable would it be if Travis Took this team through the A-10 tournaments, got the bid, and then made the Sweet 16 or elite eight and had all kinds of interest from other schools lol. Let’s just say this happens since I am creating this in my head, and Porter has had it with OU and Notre Dame goes in a different direction, and it’s only a $6 million buyout instead of the 7.5 which is rumored to be what Ford’s buyout is.  Dr. Chaifetz I said screw it, I’m in!

It actually would be ironic if Travis takes his team through the tournament and into the NCAA tournament and is poached by another school.

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I have to believe that if Ford were to be poached, the buyout would go away.  We could also do it like VCU did with Wade to LSU --- require a home-and-home with the poaching school.

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On 2/7/2023 at 7:47 PM, BANGheGOTit said:

How unbelievable would it be if Travis Took this team through the A-10 tournaments, got the bid, and then made the Sweet 16 or elite eight and had all kinds of interest from other schools lol. Let’s just say this happens since I am creating this in my head, and Porter has had it with OU and Notre Dame goes in a different direction, and it’s only a $6 million buyout instead of the 7.5 which is rumored to be what Ford’s buyout is.  Dr. Chaifetz I said screw it, I’m in!

It actually would be ironic if Travis takes his team through the tournament and into the NCAA tournament and is poached by another school.

WOW! That was a heckuva dream!!!

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