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Rightly or wrongly, whether many want to admit it or not


BC1764

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The non alum perception of Saint Louis Men’s basketball is that it’s farcical. It’s been that way for as long as I’ve been living except for a six or so year strings of the Spoonhour and Majerus eras. I’m afraid anger will turn into frustration which will then turn into apathy. Late 70’s to early 80’s apathy, and if they have, well faint, aspirations of someday going to another conference, then they need to part ways with Ford. You can make all the excuses you want as to why this program is stuck in neutral, but the reality is he’s not getting the job done. He’s not earning the money he’s been given. He’s not the only D1 coach in the country that has gone through adversity. What separates the good coaches from the mediocre is how they handle it and outside of Tremaine Isabell playing out of his mind for four games in four days in 2019, Ford falls in the latter. Cut the losses and future endeavor him.

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1 hour ago, BC1764 said:

The non alum perception of Saint Louis Men’s basketball is that it’s farcical. It’s been that way for as long as I’ve been living except for a six or so year strings of the Spoonhour and Majerus eras. I’m afraid anger will turn into frustration which will then turn into apathy. Late 70’s to early 80’s apathy, and if they have, well faint, aspirations of someday going to another conference, then they need to part ways with Ford. You can make all the excuses you want as to why this program is stuck in neutral, but the reality is he’s not getting the job done. He’s not earning the money he’s been given. He’s not the only D1 coach in the country that has gone through adversity. What separates the good coaches from the mediocre is how they handle it and outside of Tremaine Isabell playing out of his mind for four games in four days in 2019, Ford falls in the latter. Cut the losses and future endeavor him.

i assume you have the supposed $7.5 Million lined up to buy him out and the $10 million needed to sign a better coach for a 4 year guaranteed contract?   if you do, then i am with you all the way.  

for those of you supporting our BoT, if you think they are ponying up for all of Fords compensation you are beyond naive.   if up to them ford would make the same money as our new volleyball coach.   we are lucky Chris May is the fund raiser he is, but there comes a point in time he cant go to the well again successfully, and my guess says if he isnt to that point yet, he is close.  Chaifetz's twitter post seemed a little out of character for me.   i took it to say this is getting close to unbearable for him.   that doesnt mean necessarily he will buck up again.   it could mean it's time for him to take his wallet full time to pickleball.   we dont know. 

this is definitely a crossroad i hoped we would never be at.   so close, and yet so far away.  (that should be a song.)

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Not an Alum, just a fan who moved to STL many years ago and got to experience the great late 80’s teams and Spoonball!  Spoon, Majerus…simply amazing fun!  Big fan on a limited budget, go to a few games, pay the parking, buy concessions, buy a lot of clothing and gear.  This should be the hottest ticket in STL during the winter months.  It’s affordable and there is the beautiful arena to enjoy.  The point is, it’s not just the Alums who are losing faith.  It’s not just the Alums who fill the seats a few games per year.  It will take Spoon or Majerus type success to build this back.  Spoonball sold 17k per game.  This current regime is lucky to sell out 3 or 4 games per year.  You need the casual fan as well.  This version of Billiken basketball is not getting it done.

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19 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

Spoon era had the advantage of playing in a much better league with several old and/or geographically nearby rivals. Can’t really compare attendance.

It was also a “off campus” arena and not exactly the greatest for basketball.  Granted, the rival schools were close, but on average what do you think the amount of fans were rival fans at those games?? Even if it was 6000 out of the 17k—SLU is still not getting anywhere close to that 11k mark of home fans during this regime.

Edited by BANGheGOTit
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2 hours ago, Marlow said:

Whenever I watch Creighton play in games of consequence on national TV-and relying heavily on a post player from St. Louis-I get jealous. Why do we seem so far from this?

Because Creighton as an athletic dept and institution took basketball seriously decades ago. They knew it paid the bills. SLU stopped giving a damn in the early 70's and it has bit them ever since.

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33 minutes ago, BC1764 said:

Because Creighton as an athletic dept and institution took basketball seriously decades ago. They knew it paid the bills. SLU stopped giving a damn in the early 70's and it has bit them ever since.

Not disagreeing with you, just saying. whatever D1 school with revenue generating sports can’t figure out this equation by now, should just drop down a few levels.  With the ‘fetz, and enough booster $ to pay the HC the highest salary in the conference—this shouldn’t even be a topic of discussion but who knows?

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16 minutes ago, BC1764 said:

Oh I’m in agreement. You even have some members here who are ok with the status quo.

I’m sorry, but BC1764 is right. As a college basketball fan, as a fan of a few different schools, rooting for most regional schools, but with my heart belonging to the Billikens—I don’t give 2 craps about collegiate baseball, track, soccer, crochet…or whatever other sport people care about. Too many people on here worry about what happens to the swim team.  News flash!  You or Biff may like them but most people don’t even know the school has a tennis team or whatever!  Nothing against those athletes, it’s just not a draw to 99% of the casual fans!  SLU doesn’t have football or fans would likely be upset about the success of that team as well.  This is about MENS BASKETBALL and the lack of direction this team has.   

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2 hours ago, BANGheGOTit said:

I’m sorry, but BC1764 is right. As a college basketball fan, as a fan of a few different schools, rooting for most regional schools, but with my heart belonging to the Billikens—I don’t give 2 craps about collegiate baseball, track, soccer, crochet…or whatever other sport people care about. Too many people on here worry about what happens to the swim team.  News flash!  You or Biff may like them but most people don’t even know the school has a tennis team or whatever!  Nothing against those athletes, it’s just not a draw to 99% of the casual fans!  SLU doesn’t have football or fans would likely be upset about the success of that team as well.  This is about MENS BASKETBALL and the lack of direction this team has.   

I swear bc1969 made another account.

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hey twins, please tell us who will pay the $7.5 Million to buy out ford and who will play the salary that outdoubtedly will be more than ford's (reputed to be around $2.5 million per year) for this new coach that must be the next coming of john wooden?   maybe if you can convince us the money works, we would be more open to listen.

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Honestly I don’t know who ANYONE is on this board, and  don’t care who anyone is.  Ignore me, block me, whatever…I’m just a fan who is fed up and expressing my opinions.  I guess in this point in time it’s obvious many people don’t like that concept or cant handle it.  As far as I can tell, I haven’t said anything controversial, haven’t called anyone any names, just stated some opinions and some facts.  Is this some good ‘ol boy network that can’t handle some posts?  If that’s the case, just block me, because I don’t want anything to do with people who can’t handle some truth.  I’m assuming the “twins” reference was about me and someone else?  Is it safe to assume the $7.5M reference was directed towards me?  If you want me to come up with a solution to buy out the $7.5m buyout—I’ll do that as soon as you get Travis to start changing his style of coaching (or show he has ANY kind of plan).  Of course if Ford developed a different plan I may be on board with keeping him.  Point being—likely none of us will have much say in what happens moving forward unless you’re in a position to spend enough $$.   Maybe just let the forum be a open forum and try to have a little thicker skin or be a little more tolerant of opinions?  If this is forum embraces cancel culture—cancel me immediately.

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24 minutes ago, BANGheGOTit said:

Honestly I don’t know who ANYONE is on this board, and  don’t care who anyone is.  Ignore me, block me, whatever…I’m just a fan who is fed up and expressing my opinions.  I guess in this point in time it’s obvious many people don’t like that concept or cant handle it.  As far as I can tell, I haven’t said anything controversial, haven’t called anyone any names, just stated some opinions and some facts.  Is this some good ‘ol boy network that can’t handle some posts?  If that’s the case, just block me, because I don’t want anything to do with people who can’t handle some truth.  I’m assuming the “twins” reference was about me and someone else?  Is it safe to assume the $7.5M reference was directed towards me?  If you want me to come up with a solution to buy out the $7.5m buyout—I’ll do that as soon as you get Travis to start changing his style of coaching (or show he has ANY kind of plan).  Of course if Ford developed a different plan I may be on board with keeping him.  Point being—likely none of us will have much say in what happens moving forward unless you’re in a position to spend enough $$.   Maybe just let the forum be a open forum and try to have a little thicker skin or be a little more tolerant of opinions?  If this is forum embraces cancel culture—cancel me immediately.

i asked about money because let's say we do fire ford.  bam we owe him at least $7.5 Million right there and now.   then obviously since you want him fired, you are pitching we hire someone better.   that eliminates the cheap coaches like a hot shot recruiting only assistant or a mid major or lower coach, so to pirate a high D1 head coach or go after some big name coach that is out of the game at the moment like chris beard or jay wright will cost AT LEAST what ford is getting.   so you tell us, where is that money going to come from?   there is no sense firing the coach if our budget will only allow a lateral move.   so please direct the board to the method you go to come up with at last $10 million immediately for the buyout and the minimum salary of the great coach.  plus you now put us on the line for like another $10 million if the new coach signs a 5 year contract.   i know we all like to think coming up with the benjamin's will just fall out of the sky, but i am a skeptic and not very smart on these sports financial things, so please explain it to me.  

p.s. i dont think there is anyone here who cant handle your dream posts, we just want the x's and o's on how that can be accomplished in the real world.

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Quote

i know we all like to think coming up with the benjamin's will just fall out of the sky

Hmmm

Quote

but i am a skeptic 

We’re well aware of that. So afraid of where the program was over 40 years ago that you would rather have Ford waste away talent year after year.

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Two take aways from this thread: 

1) A fans message board can’t do squat about the program’s current state of disrepair. 
2) Ford’s contract is between him and the school. It’s up to the powers that be to figure out his future and what’s in SLU’s best interest. 
Neither of these should stop the fan’s opinions from being expressed on here. Whether or not our feelings or opinions will be a factor in the program’s direction may be noted by management but will play little or no role in their decision making process. The only means the fans have at their disposal is through attendance and dollars spent at games, donations, and merchandise purchases. I would assume if the program doesn’t show improvement the fan’s $$ contributions will decrease. That will get their attention. I sincerely hope it doesn’t sink to that level, but at some point we’re going to have to see improvement from our current status of seeing our high expectations go down in flames every season. 

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If Ford actually got an extension prior to this season that has SLU on the hook for $7.5 million, May should be fired.  That would have been a completely unnecessary and irresponsible extension at the time.  It doesn’t matter where you sit when it comes to Ford’s future, that action would make zero sense given the results of the last six seasons.  Ford wasn’t going to be poached by a program paying him more.

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6 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Two take aways from this thread: 

1) A fans message board can’t do squat about the program’s current state of disrepair. 
2) Ford’s contract is between him and the school. It’s up to the powers that be to figure out his future and what’s in SLU’s best interest. 
Neither of these should stop the fan’s opinions from being expressed on here. Whether or not our feelings or opinions will be a factor in the program’s direction may be noted by management but will play little or no role in their decision making process. The only means the fans have at their disposal is through attendance and dollars spent at games, donations, and merchandise purchases. I would assume if the program doesn’t show improvement the fan’s $$ contributions will decrease. That will get their attention. I sincerely hope it doesn’t sink to that level, but at some point we’re going to have to see improvement from our current status of seeing our high expectations go down in flames every season. 

You are correct in both of your points, this message board and all posts on it can’t do anything about the current state of the program, nor will the posts on here affect the status of the head coach.  The only way the people on here have to send a message is with how they personally spend their money, just like all sports.

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38 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i asked about money because let's say we do fire ford.  bam we owe him at least $7.5 Million right there and now.   then obviously since you want him fired, you are pitching we hire someone better.   that eliminates the cheap coaches like a hot shot recruiting only assistant or a mid major or lower coach, so to pirate a high D1 head coach or go after some big name coach that is out of the game at the moment like chris beard or jay wright will cost AT LEAST what ford is getting.   so you tell us, where is that money going to come from?   there is no sense firing the coach if our budget will only allow a lateral move.   so please direct the board to the method you go to come up with at last $10 million immediately for the buyout and the minimum salary of the great coach.  plus you now put us on the line for like another $10 million if the new coach signs a 5 year contract.   i know we all like to think coming up with the benjamin's will just fall out of the sky, but i am a skeptic and not very smart on these sports financial things, so please explain it to me.  

p.s. i dont think there is anyone here who cant handle your dream posts, we just want the x's and o's on how that can be accomplished in the real world.

Who needs X’s and O’s?? It’s obvious Travis Ford can get by without that skill set for 25+ years, now you expect me to be able to do it for free?!!

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13 minutes ago, brianstl said:

If Ford actually got an extension prior to this season that has SLU on the hook for $7.5 million, May should be fired.  That would have been a completely unnecessary and irresponsible extension at the time.  It doesn’t matter where you sit when it comes to Ford’s future, that action would make zero sense given the results of the last six seasons.  Ford wasn’t going to be poached by a program paying him more.

Almost as bad a Mo signing Carp to a huge extension when it wasn’t necessary.  At least in that case Matt had produced.

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44 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i asked about money because let's say we do fire ford.  bam we owe him at least $7.5 Million right there and now.   then obviously since you want him fired, you are pitching we hire someone better.   that eliminates the cheap coaches like a hot shot recruiting only assistant or a mid major or lower coach, so to pirate a high D1 head coach or go after some big name coach that is out of the game at the moment like chris beard or jay wright will cost AT LEAST what ford is getting.   so you tell us, where is that money going to come from?   there is no sense firing the coach if our budget will only allow a lateral move.   so please direct the board to the method you go to come up with at last $10 million immediately for the buyout and the minimum salary of the great coach.  plus you now put us on the line for like another $10 million if the new coach signs a 5 year contract.   i know we all like to think coming up with the benjamin's will just fall out of the sky, but i am a skeptic and not very smart on these sports financial things, so please explain it to me.  

p.s. i dont think there is anyone here who cant handle your dream posts, we just want the x's and o's on how that can be accomplished in the real world.

Everyone knows the majority of fans can only speak with dollars spent.  Most don’t have the deep wallets to influence a drastic change over a short period of time.  It takes a bad year or two of attendance and dollars not being spent to raise some concern among the powers that be.  Some members seem to think they are so influential in their ideas on  boards like this that they can change the direction of a program.   There is constant game plan strategy, ideas for Chris May, Travis, comments about players, etc.  If that’s the case, then seeing a lot of posts that’s critical of the program or coach may just be a faster way of heating up the seat under a regime that has gotten stale.  Will it work?  I have no idea, but it’s not my job to worry about where the money will come from.  The money will either be there or it won’t.  What’s the alternative?  Not criticizing anything and watch the program sink to Crews-like levels?

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