Hargrove's Story

[slu72]

Easy to see how derogatory comments on here can offend these young men. For the most part they’ve received nothing but praise through their pre teen and teen years. Then they get to college and suddenly subjected to some harsh brutal fan criticism. If they hear it enough it’s bound to get to them. I think Rickma had a policy that players were prevented from reading the board. Don’t quite know how he policed it, but I think that’s a great policy for any coach. We MBM’ers don’t realize all the effort that goes into being a D1 athlete. Along with all that work, they put up with coaches critiques which in a lot of cases can be very harsh. Add us know nothings to the mix, its not hard to understand how a kid can fall into a mental funk. I praise TJ for exposing his bout with depression and getting the help he needed to hopefully put it behind him. It’s also a reminder to all of us to think before post. 

[BigMouthBilliken]

54 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

Shame on any of us MBMs who may have trashed TJ or any of our players.  They are 18 to 23 years old young men, who are impressionable.  Some of them have more natural ability than others.  They all have rigorous schedules for both academics and basketball.  None of them need to see themselves trashed on a message board because we feel that the team is not performing up to our expectations.  As for TJ himself, he has great athleticism and always plays hard.  When he is not on the court, he is one of our best cheerleaders from the bench.  I give him all the credit in the world for coming forth with his struggles.  You are in my prayers TJ.

I commend TJ’s courage to publicly opening up like this. Hope it helps others in a positive way.

 

That being said, while personal attacks should be off limits, these young men in many cases are making pretty good $$$, full ride scholarships, and other perks to play a game. They should not be immune to criticism and it comes with the territory. Sports fanatics have been around since the beginning of time, for the better or worse, so this is nothing new. But now there is no longer credence to use the amateur excuse now that they are borderline professionals. 

[Billiken Rich]

1 minute ago, slu72 said:

Easy to see how derogatory comments on here can offend these young men. For the most part they’ve received nothing but praise through their pre teen and teen years. Then they get to college and suddenly subjected to some harsh brutal fan criticism. If they hear it enough it’s bound to get to them. I think Rickma had a policy that players were prevented from reading the board. Don’t quite know how he policed it, but I think that’s a great policy for any coach. We MBM’ers don’t realize all the effort that goes into being a D1 athlete. Along with all that work, they put up with coaches critiques which in a lot of cases can be very harsh. Add us know nothings to the mix, its not hard to understand how a kid can fall into a mental funk. I praise TJ for exposing his bout with depression and getting the help he needed to hopefully put it behind him. It’s also a reminder to all of us to think before post. 

This site is the Disneyworld of big time college athletics.  It's mostly G rated.  Anyone finding "harsh brutal fan criticism" here needs to get out more....

[Billiken Rich]

6 minutes ago, OkieBilliken said:

Didnt Ford spend the preseason in Wuhan one year?

I heard "Ishtar" was his Idea.........

[slu72]

1 minute ago, Billiken Rich said:

This site is the Disneyworld of big time college athletics.  It's mostly G rated.  Anyone finding "harsh brutal fan criticism" here needs to get out more....

I was speaking in general terms. Still, the level of skin thickness varies for each individual, so you never really know the effect your comment is going to have on any one player. 

[CenHudDude]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I want to add to this that Hargrove's depression may have something to do with Ford. Ford was severely limiting his playing time and in some games he would yank him out of the court when Hargrove was having a hot run. Never underestimate how important the relationship of a player with his coach may be.

TJ clearly stated that one of his distractions was “negativity expressed about him from the outside.”  This could very well have included Billikens.com, which I believe was the point that Steve was trying to make in his initial post in this thread.  Were we MBMs the sole cause of his depression? No.  Were we one of the distractions that he referenced?  We each need to look at ourselves in a mirror for that answer.

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, CenHudDude said:

TJ clearly stated that one of his distractions was “negativity expressed about him from the outside.”  This could very well have included Billikens.com, which I believe was the point that Steve was trying to make in his initial post in this thread.  Were we MBMs the sole cause of his depression? No.  Were we one of the distractions that he referenced?  We each need to look at ourselves in a mirror for that answer.

Don't know why you even dignified it with a response. Dude isn't going to stop harping until Ford is tarred and feathered. 

[RUBillsFan]

Important for student athletes to understand/remember that their worth as a person is not tied to their performance in their sport. I’m sure it is easy to lose sight of that at times.

[juniorbill76]

17 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Important for everyone to understand/remember that their worth as a person is not tied to their performance. I’m sure it is easy to lose sight of that at times.

FIFY

[Taj79]

You play sports and have a bad game. you hear about it.  I don't know how you change that.  I wouldn't want to be TCU today.

[Soderball]

Hargrove is a real university representative. I see him after every game taking photos and doing signatures for fans, especially kids.

One of the finest ambassadors the program has had imo. He truly cares and gives his time for fans.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, Soderball said:

Hargrove is a real university representative. I see him after every game taking photos and doing signatures for fans, especially kids.

One of the finest ambassadors the program has had imo. He truly cares and gives his time for fans.

i think it is remarkable he is still a billiken.   my gosh the minutes he has gotten (or rather not gotten) considering his time here and the apparent athleticism would have been all the reason he needed to head out to a different program.   he obviously loves being close to home and being a billiken.   regardless how much we like (or dont) hargrove, you have to like the loyalty.  

[CenHudDude]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i think it is remarkable he is still a billiken.   my gosh the minutes he has gotten (or rather not gotten) considering his time here and the apparent athleticism would have been all the reason he needed to head out to a different program.   he obviously loves being close to home and being a billiken.   regardless how much we like (or dont) hargrove, you have to like the loyalty.  

Well said b’roy.

[Billikenbooster]

Ran into a fan today at lunch. Never met him before. Spoke to him at length about Billikens.com. Told him, as I say to anyone else, the chat room is like sitting at a bar with 20 friends talking about yr favorite team. He will check out the Board and might join.

I mentioned THJ recent revelation. We agreed that when 2 individuals discuss a third, they would talk differently if the third individual were standing right there vs not present. I thought this interesting, and will attempt to follow this guideline and see where it leads me.

mhg

[BigMouthBilliken]

Just win

[JettFlight5]

TJ had a nice first game after the story too…

#RiseUpTJ

[Soderball]

10 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i think it is remarkable he is still a billiken.   my gosh the minutes he has gotten (or rather not gotten) considering his time here and the apparent athleticism would have been all the reason he needed to head out to a different program.   he obviously loves being close to home and being a billiken.   regardless how much we like (or dont) hargrove, you have to like the loyalty.  

I separate out his character(which is outstanding) vs his basketball ability(which is inconsistent imo) .. he likes being close to home especially. Only other options for him woulda been SIUE imo.

But it is the truth that he's an outstanding ambassador for the program. He doesn't have to interact with fans like he does, that's a choice he makes.

[BC1764]

The Athletic Department is full of pretty horrible people who don't actually care about the students. There have been multiple reports of mental health issues from the students with no action taken, they don't communicate plans or events where students are expected to be in attendance until very short notice (part of the mental health concerns), the staff who actually care are the ones directly interacting with the students and unfortunately are only able to escalate their students concerns to the Athletic Department leadership but it's fallen on deaf ears. A few of these staff have already either quit or announced that they're quitting at the end of the season since they can't do their job successfully and protect the students due to the AD not caring about anything but money.

Chris May and Jan Oberle have either been willfully ignorant of these issues or just don't think they matter since the team is still winning and the money is coming in. SLU in general has been woefully failing at their mission statement for a long time, and this is just another example of this.

[gabriel]

1 hour ago, BC1764 said:

The Athletic Department is full of pretty horrible people who don't actually care about the students. There have been multiple reports of mental health issues from the students with no action taken, they don't communicate plans or events where students are expected to be in attendance until very short notice (part of the mental health concerns), the staff who actually care are the ones directly interacting with the students and unfortunately are only able to escalate their students concerns to the Athletic Department leadership but it's fallen on deaf ears. A few of these staff have already either quit or announced that they're quitting at the end of the season since they can't do their job successfully and protect the students due to the AD not caring about anything but money.

Chris May and Jan Oberle have either been willfully ignorant of these issues or just don't think they matter since the team is still winning and the money is coming in. SLU in general has been woefully failing at their mission statement for a long time, and this is just another example of this.

Being a student athlete is a difficult and stressful task - any evidence that SLU has more of an issue of this than any other university? Would love to see some evidence to back up your lofty criticisms. 

[almaman]

32 minutes ago, gabriel said:

Being a student athlete is a difficult and stressful task - any evidence that SLU has more of an issue of this than any other university? Would love to see some evidence to back up your lofty criticisms. 

or maybe just keep it & a lot "assessments" 2yourself

[Billiken Rich]

2 hours ago, BC1764 said:

The Athletic Department is full of pretty horrible people who don't actually care about the students. There have been multiple reports of mental health issues from the students with no action taken, they don't communicate plans or events where students are expected to be in attendance until very short notice (part of the mental health concerns), the staff who actually care are the ones directly interacting with the students and unfortunately are only able to escalate their students concerns to the Athletic Department leadership but it's fallen on deaf ears. A few of these staff have already either quit or announced that they're quitting at the end of the season since they can't do their job successfully and protect the students due to the AD not caring about anything but money.

Chris May and Jan Oberle have either been willfully ignorant of these issues or just don't think they matter since the team is still winning and the money is coming in. SLU in general has been woefully failing at their mission statement for a long time, and this is just another example of this.

It's SO GREAT to have such a caring and compassionate poster like you on the board.  Just always trying to make things better.  My hat's off to you sir! 

[cgeldmacher]

5 hours ago, BC1764 said:

The Athletic Department is full of pretty horrible people who don't actually care about the students. There have been multiple reports of mental health issues from the students with no action taken, they don't communicate plans or events where students are expected to be in attendance until very short notice (part of the mental health concerns), the staff who actually care are the ones directly interacting with the students and unfortunately are only able to escalate their students concerns to the Athletic Department leadership but it's fallen on deaf ears. A few of these staff have already either quit or announced that they're quitting at the end of the season since they can't do their job successfully and protect the students due to the AD not caring about anything but money.

Chris May and Jan Oberle have either been willfully ignorant of these issues or just don't think they matter since the team is still winning and the money is coming in. SLU in general has been woefully failing at their mission statement for a long time, and this is just another example of this.

Man I miss the "Bad Post" and "Troll" designations.

[billikenfan05]

He’s not all that off base. It’s just a shame he’s been a troll since he got here and this nobody is gonna take him seriously. 

[TheChosenOne]

I hadn't noticed this thread until now, but one thing I am sure more than just me has witnessed is that playing football or hoops at East St. Louis is much different than most area high schools. I watched East St. Louis play Chaminade a number of years ago and was sitting in a section with fans of both programs and it was rather surprising to hear how their fans ride their players. It was definitely more in line with what you would expect watching professionals play than high school kids. And then Hargrove staying home and having a mediocre career here likely leads to him and his family hearing some things that aren't overly positive. I think there is a chance more of this is coming from his neighborhood than SLU fans who are about as tame as you can get with respect to riding players. I didn't read the article, so maybe this is a garbage take. Regardless, it is good to hear Hargrove is in a better state of mind.

And don't look at a fan message board if you are expecting rational and balanced commentary one would find from a journalist. This site and social media are essentially just codifying the drunk talk at a game or bars as fans watch their team. It is rather lame to call someone out for something they posted on a game thread that wasn't overtly positive. If we are placing blame for a player being down to the point Hargrove was, I would likely be placing more of that on the coaching staff than this website. Maybe a lesson to be learned for those around the program to do a better job checking in on guys on a personal level.