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4 hours ago, CBFan said:

I only want the school to reach out to Chris Beard if they don’t I have a problem with that.

SLU wouldn’t be the only school after him there will be competition for his services so I would not blame SLU for not hiring him.

If Ford is back next season I will not renew my tickets until there is a change and that cannot be another coach fired that did not get the job done.

IF and only if SLU actually does fire Travis Ford, i agree there needs to be a true once in the lifetime run at a big time coach.   if not, the program slides back to where it was when Ford was the surprise hire imo.   We need to keep pushing the program to the next level.   if not, we will forever be stuck in this cycle of rebuilding, plateau, never getting to that next level, fire that coach, start over again, rebuild again.  5-10 years later repeat the entire cycle.

as to beard, i dont know about the rest, but i am an american that believes "innocent until prove guilty".   if Chris Beard was never convicted.   if the only "witness" says he didnt do it she made it up, then i am struggling with the issue.   couldnt SLU hire him with a no second chance clause?  all i know is the guy's run coaching has been really good. 

normally we are fearing (myself included) the coach that cheats to win.  i have never heard an inkling of that being the case with beard.   the other positive, beard will likely have to give a discount, at least to start out with, to get hired again due to this current issue.   when will we ever get another chance at a big time successful coach for the discounted price he is going to come with?  

of course all this is just wishful thinking.  we havent even severed ties with Travis Ford yet.   we all need to hold back and support our team for now.  who knows, maybe the big second half run is yet to come. 

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From Bernie Bits

ASSORTMENT OF STUFF: Bad loss for Saint Louis U, which surrendered too many times on defense in a 90-81 loss at UMass. The Billikens are 9-6 overall, and that’s ridiculous considering that they’re the 12th most experienced team in the nation (per Ken Pom) … SLU ranked 81st in defensive efficiency last season and that’s dropped to the No. 159 ranking this season … the Billikens are also ranked No. 356 in the nation defensively in the percentage of forcing turnovers …

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16 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

From Bernie Bits

ASSORTMENT OF STUFF: Bad loss for Saint Louis U, which surrendered too many times on defense in a 90-81 loss at UMass. The Billikens are 9-6 overall, and that’s ridiculous considering that they’re the 12th most experienced team in the nation (per Ken Pom) … SLU ranked 81st in defensive efficiency last season and that’s dropped to the No. 159 ranking this season … the Billikens are also ranked No. 356 in the nation defensively in the percentage of forcing turnovers …

This is all that needs to be said. They can’t play defense. 

Is it the coaches fault?

Is it the Payers faults? 
 

Moat likely some combination of both.

If they just played defense as well as last year we aren’t having any of these discussions and an “At Large” is still in play. 

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3 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Until somebody answers my question that I have asked at least 3 times recently - what is the status of Ford's current contract, how many years left, is there a buy out and what is it, and how much would we owe him if he was fired - all this discussion is just silly noise.  I have no problem with expressing your dissatisfaction with Ford and the team but blaming the school for not hiring a Chris Beard is just naive.

No one's dodging your question, we just don't know.

He makes about $2.4MM a year and he reportedly signed "a very lucrative extension" in February 2021. So if I had to guess, I'd say that puts him at 3 more seasons after this one. I don't know if the salary escalates from what it is now, but that would put the buyout in the $7MM to $7.5MM neighborhood if it stays the same, and more if he has increases built in.

That's my best guess.

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

 

of course all this is just wishful thinking.  

Perhaps it's because I am an eternal pessimist but the part of the equation everyone seems to be forgetting is Chris Beard wanting to coach at SLU!?!

I'd imagine there will be a handful of middle-of-the-road P5 schools with more money than us to burn who are willing to take the risk on Beard. 

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53 minutes ago, Pistol said:

No one's dodging your question, we just don't know.

He makes about $2.4MM a year and he reportedly signed "a very lucrative extension" in February 2021. So if I had to guess, I'd say that puts him at 3 more seasons after this one. I don't know if the salary escalates from what it is now, but that would put the buyout in the $7MM to $7.5MM neighborhood if it stays the same, and more if he has increases built in.

That's my best guess.

That’s probably the best estimate anyone can make, since it’s not public information. The question: “Is this truly the best use of $7-$7.5 million that benefits the SLU athletic program overall the most?”  For SLU, this is not chump change.

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1 hour ago, Pistol said:

No one's dodging your question, we just don't know.

He makes about $2.4MM a year and he reportedly signed "a very lucrative extension" in February 2021. So if I had to guess, I'd say that puts him at 3 more seasons after this one. I don't know if the salary escalates from what it is now, but that would put the buyout in the $7MM to $7.5MM neighborhood if it stays the same, and more if he has increases built in.

That's my best guess.

Yes.  This was published a year or two ago, but confirms $2.45 M.  salaries.jpg.9a64c9a06c4d47cc5531aee72cf3de9c.jpg

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Lord Elrond I agre the issue is not what is best for the Athletic Department, the issue is what is best for SLU. If SLU's investments results for 2022 were as bad as they have been for other academic institutions, then the buyout and additional hiring costs may be a real quandary. Remember that the replacement cost is not limited to the buyout. They include search costs plus sundries (moving expenses, etc.) plus the salary of the new coach. Firing and replacing Ford may get to depend, at least partially, on the donor's willingness to provide funds. However, the donors do not have bottomless money wells either, and probably had losses for 2022 like everyone else. We may be stuck with Ford for a number of additional years.

Ford, on the other hand can get free money if there is a buyout of his contract, so he has nothing to worry about. He will get hired by some other school and his cycle will start again. Eventually he will get to the point where he will not need any additional income and can retire comfortably.

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2 hours ago, Pistol said:

No one's dodging your question, we just don't know.

He makes about $2.4MM a year and he reportedly signed "a very lucrative extension" in February 2021. So if I had to guess, I'd say that puts him at 3 more seasons after this one. I don't know if the salary escalates from what it is now, but that would put the buyout in the $7MM to $7.5MM neighborhood if it stays the same, and more if he has increases built in.

That's my best guess.

I didn't think people were dodging me.  All I was trying to do was get some numbers out there so people would see that just saying Ford has to go is not that easy.  Thanks for the information.

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11 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Lord Elrond I agre the issue is not what is best for the Athletic Department, the issue is what is best for SLU. If SLU's investments results for 2022 were as bad as they have been for other academic institutions, then the buyout and additional hiring costs may be a real quandary. Remember that the replacement cost is not limited to the buyout. They include search costs plus sundries (moving expenses, etc.) plus the salary of the new coach. Firing and replacing Ford may get to depend, at least partially, on the donor's willingness to provide funds. However, the donors do not have bottomless money wells either, and probably had losses for 2022 like everyone else. We may be stuck with Ford for a number of additional years.

Ford, on the other hand can get free money if there is a buyout of his contract, so he has nothing to worry about. He will get hired by some other school and his cycle will start again. Eventually he will get to the point where he will not need any additional income and can retire comfortably.

Even if we found a donor with the money, would that be the best use for it?  Say it’s a $7.5 million buyout, plus various sundries, plus the signing bonus for the new coach, call it $10 million total at a guess (this is just a guess), and a donor was willing to give that much to SLU so it would not affect the athletic budget or require drawing money from SLU investments. Is the best use of this money to make Travis Ford go away, or could you better use it elsewhere (say $5 million for a NIL collective, and $5 million for facilities improvement of some kind (like for example the proposal mentioned by Zac on the Midtown Madness podcast for a new Softball/Field Hockey Field and improvements to the baseball grandstand, or pick whatever improvements you want)? You could do a lot with that money.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Even if we found a donor with the money, would that be the best use for it?  Say it’s a $7.5 million buyout, plus various sundries, plus the signing bonus for the new coach, call it $10 million total at a guess (this is just a guess), and a donor was willing to give that much to SLU so it would not affect the athletic budget or require drawing money from SLU investments. Is the best use of this money to make Travis Ford go away, or could you better use it elsewhere (say $5 million for a NIL collective, and $5 million for facilities improvement of some kind (like for example the proposal mentioned by Zac on the Midtown Madness podcast for a new Softball/Field Hockey Field and improvements to the baseball grandstand, or pick whatever improvements you want)? You could do a lot with that money.

The more money you owe the easier it is to buy the guy out - he will want to be able to take the money and go look for another job.  If you have to pay him the whole nut then why would you buy him out just sit back and let it run out.  That is what happened to Crews.  Ford will want another job is my guess.

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9 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Even if we found a donor with the money, would that be the best use for it?  Say it’s a $7.5 million buyout, plus various sundries, plus the signing bonus for the new coach, call it $10 million total at a guess (this is just a guess), and a donor was willing to give that much to SLU so it would not affect the athletic budget or require drawing money from SLU investments. Is the best use of this money to make Travis Ford go away, or could you better use it elsewhere (say $5 million for a NIL collective, and $5 million for facilities improvement of some kind (like for example the proposal mentioned by Zac on the Midtown Madness podcast for a new Softball/Field Hockey Field and improvements to the baseball grandstand, or pick whatever improvements you want)? You could do a lot with that money.

There are always more things that need to be done than the amount of money available to do them with. The person in charge decides how to spend the money. There is an exception to the rule that the person in charge decides what to do with the money. If a donor contributes a large sum of money for the purpose of getting rid of Ford, that money cannot be switched to pay for something else.

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2 hours ago, Pistol said:

He makes about $2.4MM a year and he reportedly signed "a very lucrative extension" in February 2021. So if I had to guess, I'd say that puts him at 3 more seasons after this one. I don't know if the salary escalates from what it is now, but that would put the buyout in the $7MM to $7.5MM neighborhood if it stays the same, and more if he has increases built in.

 

If the extension part is true, it is a classic example of an AD negotiating against himself. No one was hiring Travis Ford away from SLU at that point. 

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4 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

The more money you owe the easier it is to buy the guy out - he will want to be able to take the money and go look for another job.  If you have to pay him the whole nut then why would you buy him out just sit back and let it run out.  That is what happened to Crews.  Ford will want another job is my guess.

They bought out Crews. They paid him $1.8 million in 2016 to cover the last two years of his contract.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Yes.  This was published a year or two ago, but confirms $2.45 M.  salaries.jpg.9a64c9a06c4d47cc5531aee72cf3de9c.jpg

Paying this kind of money for Travis Ford was always highway robbery. The extension in the middle of COVID era was a disaster.

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8 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

If the extension part is true, it is a classic example of an AD negotiating against himself. No one was hiring Travis Ford away from SLU at that point. 

Reminds me of the Cardinals extending Matt Carpenter in April 2019 when he still had a full year left on his contract.  Marp had an overall solid 2018, but only batted 0.170 in the previous September.  The 2 cases may be apples-to-oranges in that the coaching extension projects stability to would-be recruits.

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48 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

If the extension part is true, it is a classic example of an AD negotiating against himself. No one was hiring Travis Ford away from SLU at that point. 

A lot of people on this board were worried that was going to happen. Your take is very revisionist . Somebody who is better at search can look it up. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

Even if we found a donor with the money, would that be the best use for it?  Say it’s a $7.5 million buyout, plus various sundries, plus the signing bonus for the new coach, call it $10 million total at a guess (this is just a guess), and a donor was willing to give that much to SLU so it would not affect the athletic budget or require drawing money from SLU investments. Is the best use of this money to make Travis Ford go away, or could you better use it elsewhere (say $5 million for a NIL collective, and $5 million for facilities improvement of some kind (like for example the proposal mentioned by Zac on the Midtown Madness podcast for a new Softball/Field Hockey Field and improvements to the baseball grandstand, or pick whatever improvements you want)? You could do a lot with that money.

The best use for that money is irrelevant. If a donor wants to fork over $10M of his/her money to buy out Ford and pay for the new coach's signing bonus, then that is what the $10M will be used for.

Unless you can give a very convincing PowerPoint presentation to that donor in favor of field hockey field improvements. Make sure to use lots of really cool graphics.

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1 minute ago, willie said:

A lot of people on this board were worried that was going to happen. Your take is very revisionist . Somebody who is better at search can look it up. 

They were wrong.  As people pointed at the time Ford was going to have to show he could reach the second weekend of the tournament multiple times before P5 programs were going to want to hire Ford.  He already had an underwhelming track record at a P5 program that had a history of success and a athletics budget that only trailed Texas and OU in the Big 12.

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4 hours ago, Cowboy II said:

-don't see a problem with our schemes on offense or defense? wow

-I would take Chris Beard in a heartbeat

-I have no idea what CFord's contract says but I think Dr Chaifetz is either the key or a key into any change at whatever time

-reading a bit more about Chris Beard's dismissal from Texas, for me to be on board with him at SLU any charges would have to be dropped or not filed

-but IF we are looking for a new coach in a few months I don't think SLU would explore the Chris Beard option unless Randi said she made up the entire thing

-could you imagine our Deputy Director of Athletics dealing with Chris Beard? that alone would be worth the price of admission to whatever chance to observe it

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32 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

The best use for that money is irrelevant. If a donor wants to fork over $10M of his/her money to buy out Ford and pay for the new coach's signing bonus, then that is what the $10M will be used for.

Unless you can give a very convincing PowerPoint presentation to that donor in favor of field hockey field improvements. Make sure to use lots of really cool graphics.

But would that be the best use of a donors money?  Instead of paying that and just having Travis Ford go away, would we be better of if that money was used for a NIL collective while keeping Ford until his contract is up?  It’s a lot of money just to make someone go away.

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31 minutes ago, brianstl said:

They were wrong.  As people pointed at the time Ford was going to have to show he could reach the second weekend of the tournament multiple times before P5 programs were going to want to hire Ford.  He already had an underwhelming track record at a P5 program that had a history of success and a athletics budget that only trailed Texas and OU in the Big 12.

I was never even worried about the second weekend thing.  It was and still is a focus that we need a coach who can just get us to the tournament routinely. Once we've established that, if said coach cant take us past the first weekend, then we look else where. 

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