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9 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

To speak to this, a few current alumni are trying to keep it alive contingent on demands being met, but the people I know aren't optimistic about it. My thinking is always just to outlast the a$$holes even if new ones take their place.

SLU would hire the entire St. Louis orchestra before they would give in to “demands” of volunteer band members.

…or just not have a band (more likely) 

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2 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

SLU would hire the entire St. Louis orchestra before they would give in to “demands” of volunteer band members.

…or just not have a band (more likely) 

Color me the eternal optimist on that front. I'm not a big fan of bastardization nor am I losing institutions, but the folks I know who are choosing to try to trudge on are doing it for the right reasons; AD be damned.

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6 hours ago, willie said:

Not sure of this but we might not of had a Board of Trustees back then. Having a lay board is relatively new. That said yes Bakken was hired to raise money. We paid for a membership to Algonquin CC. Idea was to play golf and raise money. He did one of the two. John Kadlec the Missouri assistant AD was the runner up. 

The lay board goes back to 1967 - not that new.

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1 hour ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Color me the eternal optimist on that front. I'm not a big fan of bastardization nor am I losing institutions, but the folks I know who are choosing to try to trudge on are doing it for the right reasons; AD be damned.

"Higher Purpose. Greater Good." These four words are proudly displayed on nearly every correspondence SLU has with the general public. These four words will forever be seared into the minds of anyone associated with SLU for at least the past decade. 

Last night, the most prominent department at SLU, led by (or many would argue micro-managed by) arguably the single most incompetent leader at SLU chose to distance itself from these four words. As a student, adjunct faculty member in the Doisy College of Arts and Sciences, and Director of the World's Greatest Pep Band, Austin has devoted most of his life to SLU. 

Despite Austin pleading with members of the Athletic Department to not acknowledge his departure, they did it anyway - not because they wanted to thank Austin for his contributions to the University, but because they wanted to once again mask the culture of incompetence that has been the trademark of the Athletic Department under Chris May's watchful eye (competent organizations with good leadership don't have the level of turnover the Athletic Department has had in recent years). By portraying Austin's departure as a joyous "retirement", they attempted to save face. They hoped to avoid this exact discussion. They hoped to avoid questions as to the circumstances surrounding his sudden departure. 

All Chris May and his lemmings had to do last night was nothing - just as they had done for the past several years when presented with legitimate issues, including those involving the mental health of students. The Athletic Department under Chris May will never act in pursuit of a higher purpose or greater good. They have proven time and time again that they will always act in pursuit of self-interest, even at the expense of members of the University community and the University itself. 

Anyone considering continuing a bastardization of an institution that for many years provided more enjoyment to fans than the product on the floor needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. Fulfilling Chris May's stated dream of a small ensemble (of 20 or so people) is a tacit approval of his past actions towards the band and others who have poured their hearts and souls into everything SLU stands for. 

In this situation, taking a stand is how you promote a "higher purpose and greater good."

Unfortunately, the World's Greatest Pep Band is dead. Long live the World's Greatest!

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10 minutes ago, SouthSide_Billiken said:

Anyone considering continuing a bastardization of an institution that for many years provided more enjoyment to fans than the product on the floor needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. Fulfilling Chris May's stated dream of a small ensemble (of 20 or so people) is a tacit approval of his past actions towards the band and others who have poured their hearts and souls into everything SLU stands for. 

This is unfair. The people considering continuing it have given just as much and do not deserve to be attacked.

 

E: I get the sentiment, but this comes off the wrong way in my opinion. 

Edited by BrettJollyComedyHour
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I have to say, I'm a bit confused.  If the band is a volunteer group and the commenters on this thread are members of the band, then I don't understand why, if you/they were so unhappy, in some cases for many years, why you didn't just quit.  

And if you're not part of the band (former member or not) then I'm not sure what purpose you're serving by coming here to badmouth SLU, Athletics, and the AD.  Based on the comments, it sounds like there are band members who are still interested in playing and doing their part to create a memorable experience for the fans.  As an avid basketball fan since the early 80s, I've attended games at many different schools and the SLU Band is definitely one of the most enjoyable pep bands around.

That said, if there are issues (communication, expectations, scholarships, etc.)  that need to be sorted, IMO that should be left for the remaining band members and the new director to sort out with the Athletic Department.  Not sure any one else's opinion matters...especially not the ones of those who've elected to move on.

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10 hours ago, William Kenneth said:

I have to say, I'm a bit confused.  If the band is a volunteer group and the commenters on this thread are members of the band, then I don't understand why, if you/they were so unhappy, in some cases for many years, why you didn't just quit.  

And if you're not part of the band (former member or not) then I'm not sure what purpose you're serving by coming here to badmouth SLU, Athletics, and the AD.  Based on the comments, it sounds like there are band members who are still interested in playing and doing their part to create a memorable experience for the fans.  As an avid basketball fan since the early 80s, I've attended games at many different schools and the SLU Band is definitely one of the most enjoyable pep bands around.

That said, if there are issues (communication, expectations, scholarships, etc.)  that need to be sorted, IMO that should be left for the remaining band members and the new director to sort out with the Athletic Department.  Not sure any one else's opinion matters...especially not the ones of those who've elected to move on.

If the band members want to have changes made, the only way to force those changes is by all of them not showing up for games

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1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

If the band members want to have changes made, the only way to force those changes is by all of them not showing up for games

The worry here seems to be they'll just replace them with the DJ and not even bother trying.

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Band Alum as well. I was a member from 2010-2017, so I was there for the end of Mike's term and the beginning of Austin's.

SLU doesn't have much of a music department, so band was it's own thing. It was mostly people who loved basketball and/or just wanted the chance to keep playing music after high school. It was a fun activity, in contrast to honor societies and resume builders. For a while, the athletic department was asking the band to have less alumni members to provide more space for students, but I think since I left there are less students and the alumni keep coming. It was always a great dynamic and one that was quite unique. You had 18 year-olds learning the ropes from 30-year members. 

If I remember my history right, the band wasn't started by the school or AD. It was a student-run group that played jazz and was asked to play at games. It evolved into the 100+ member band of a few years ago. 

For some of the other questions that have been raised. I'd assume that other school provide more credit/scholarships if they have more requirements. As others have said, large football schools will have a marching band and multiple pep bands, usually different students play for different sports. They also likely have a lot of marketing/activities they are expected to do. If the "rewards" that the members get haven't changed since my time, I wouldn't be happy trying to do more events. 

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38 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

The worry here seems to be they'll just replace them with the DJ and not even bother trying.

i told my wife this exact statement last night when we angrily were discussing the band state right now.   you all know i am the band's biggest supporter.   i go way back with the good doctor B and a good number of the alumni members.   i helped them back in the doug woolard days get the administration to back off once before.    and as a musician myself (i am a 20+ year member of the Ainad Shriner Drum and Bugle Corps which happens to be a 14 time world champion Drum and Bugle Corps of all Shriners in the world,) i have played with the band over the christmas break many times in the past.  i actually sit in the stands and picked our location of our season tickets so we can get maximum enjoyment of the band.   

so you can see why my heart remains with the band.   this happening truly makes no sense.   few basketball programs in all of america would not take our band if given the chance.  so what the hell is their point?   why are the powers to be doing this?   somebody explain to us mbm's please.

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19 minutes ago, Deutschkind said:

Band Alum as well. I was a member from 2010-2017, so I was there for the end of Mike's term and the beginning of Austin's.

SLU doesn't have much of a music department, so band was it's own thing. It was mostly people who loved basketball and/or just wanted the chance to keep playing music after high school. It was a fun activity, in contrast to honor societies and resume builders. For a while, the athletic department was asking the band to have less alumni members to provide more space for students, but I think since I left there are less students and the alumni keep coming. It was always a great dynamic and one that was quite unique. You had 18 year-olds learning the ropes from 30-year members. 

If I remember my history right, the band wasn't started by the school or AD. It was a student-run group that played jazz and was asked to play at games. It evolved into the 100+ member band of a few years ago. 

For some of the other questions that have been raised. I'd assume that other school provide more credit/scholarships if they have more requirements. As others have said, large football schools will have a marching band and multiple pep bands, usually different students play for different sports. They also likely have a lot of marketing/activities they are expected to do. If the "rewards" that the members get haven't changed since my time, I wouldn't be happy trying to do more events. 

The first time I heard the Band was when I attended those 2 Grawer NIT finals back in the late 80s. I believe it was called the St Louis U Jazz Ensemble. When I was at SLU early to mid 70s we had no band. Couple times, if it was a big game they bring in a 3-4 piece band-but that was it.

During the 1/2 time they played "McArthur's Park". All of Madison Square Garden was in awe! They sounded great. 

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2 hours ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

The worry here seems to be they'll just replace them with the DJ and not even bother trying.

But then it comes down to the fans.  If the fans rise up and demand a band play at the games, the school will have to do something.  If the fans don't care about the difference between the band and a DJ, that would tell you something.

Myself, I would fall into the camp that I would be upset if we did not have our band playing at games.  I would let my feeling be known to the school and the Athletic Department.  That being said, I don't know about the rest of the folks who attend games.

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7 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Myself, I would fall into the camp that I would be upset if we did not have our band playing at games.  I would let my feeling be known to the school and the Athletic Department.  That being said, I don't know about the rest of the folks who attend games.

I would let them know. They don't listen to the band. If enough people said something then maybe something would happen.

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1 minute ago, HoosierPal said:

Trivia no one cares about- the song title is MacArthur Park. Not possessive (‘s). 

Yeah, I noticed that too.The actor Richard Harris is probably responsible for the possessive. He sang it "MacArthur's Park" on the hit record way back in 1968.

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8 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

But then it comes down to the fans.  If the fans rise up and demand a band play at the games, the school will have to do something.  If the fans don't care about the difference between the band and a DJ, that would tell you something.

Myself, I would fall into the camp that I would be upset if we did not have our band playing at games.  I would let my feeling be known to the school and the Athletic Department.  That being said, I don't know about the rest of the folks who attend games.

The pep band is a necessary part of any game day experience at a university. Even SIUE has a pep band. SLU has way too much money to be this bush league and sad.

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9 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

But then it comes down to the fans.  If the fans rise up and demand a band play at the games, the school will have to do something.  If the fans don't care about the difference between the band and a DJ, that would tell you something.

Myself, I would fall into the camp that I would be upset if we did not have our band playing at games.  I would let my feeling be known to the school and the Athletic Department.  That being said, I don't know about the rest of the folks who attend games.

Additionally: the problem seems to be that the AD wants too much pep band, not that they are trying to get rid of it. I'd love it if they would strike the middle ground: an ensemble of scholarshiped students to play at smaller events and call in the alumni/extra students with a smaller scholarship to hit the big events like MBB/tourneys/etc.

That might make too much sense though.

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2 minutes ago, Soderball said:

The pep band is a necessary part of any game day experience at a university. Even SIUE has a pep band. SLU has way too much money to be this bush league and sad.

All they have to do is just not be jerks to the band. It's not really like they're asking for much. Give them back control over what they do and the problem is mostly solved.

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

few basketball programs in all of america would not take our band if given the chance.  

In fact, the band has stood in for other programs multiple times. At the A10 tournament, they've played for St Bona because Bona didn't bring their band down to Atlantic City

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After getting more information from the responses given by Desmet Billiken and Brett Jolly Comedy Hour, here are my thoughts.

I do not think the answer is to pay members of the band.  I say this, because I believe that is not the normal practice among universities.  As I said in previous comments, there is no way large football school's pay the members of their marching bands.  I also do not believe that they give out anything close to full or half scholarships.  I just looked it up.  The Ohio State Marching band has 228 members.  192 march in the halftime shows each week.  I cannot believe they are expending much on compensation or scholarships for that many students.  This means that most, if not all, of them are doing it because they enjoy spending their time playing their instrument and proudly representing their school.

Short of paying students, there has to be some other incentive to participate it the band.  I would reinstate, or create if it hasn't been something in the past, a pep band class.  Give students scholastic credit, and an easy A, for participating in the band.  This would also create class time for the pep band to practice, so that they don't have use their free time.  0.50 credits is not nearly enough.  I would give 2.0 credit hours per semester for participating in the pep band.  There is no argument that this is a problem as playing an instrument is a fine art.  Fine arts credits are offered at almost every university.

As I said earlier, when I was at SLU, I was on the Mock Trial team, and we got 3 credit hours a semester for participating in the Mock Trial class, which was basically practicing for the Mock Trial team.  If there wasn't a class for Mock Trial, there wouldn't have been a Mock Trial team, because hardly anyone would put that amount of time into the team without some incentive for doing so.

If you increase the numbers of students participating in the band, then the Athletic Department can get extra events covered by using only portions of the band.  If there are 60 students in the pep band, you could use groups of 15-20 at a time to cover ancillary events and spread the requirements out.

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27 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

Yeah, I noticed that too.The actor Richard Harris is probably responsible for the possessive. He sang it "MacArthur's Park" on the hit record way back in 1968.

Yep. Fun fact isn’t it. Jimmy Webb wrote it and Harris and Summers changed it. The artwork for both songs had it singular. They sang it possessive. 

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19 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Yep. Fun fact isn’t it. Jimmy Webb wrote it and Harris and Summers changed it. The artwork for both songs had it singular. They sang it possessive. 

I've only ever known it as MacArthur Park. Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed have a great instrumental version on their Me & Jerry album.

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31 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

After getting more information from the responses given by Desmet Billiken and Brett Jolly Comedy Hour, here are my thoughts.

I do not think the answer is to pay members of the band.  I say this, because I believe that is not the normal practice among universities.  As I said in previous comments, there is no way large football school's pay the members of their marching bands.  I also do not believe that they give out anything close to full or half scholarships.  I just looked it up.  The Ohio State Marching band has 228 members.  192 march in the halftime shows each week.  I cannot believe they are expending much on compensation or scholarships for that many students.  This means that most, if not all, of them are doing it because they enjoy spending their time playing their instrument and proudly representing their school.

Short of paying students, there has to be some other incentive to participate it the band.  I would reinstate, or create if it hasn't been something in the past, a pep band class.  Give students scholastic credit, and an easy A, for participating in the band.  This would also create class time for the pep band to practice, so that they don't have use their free time.  0.50 credits is not nearly enough.  I would give 2.0 credit hours per semester for participating in the pep band.  There is no argument that this is a problem as playing an instrument is a fine art.  Fine arts credits are offered at almost every university.

As I said earlier, when I was at SLU, I was on the Mock Trial team, and we got 3 credit hours a semester for participating in the Mock Trial class, which was basically practicing for the Mock Trial team.  If there wasn't a class for Mock Trial, there wouldn't have been a Mock Trial team, because hardly anyone would put that amount of time into the team without some incentive for doing so.

If you increase the numbers of students participating in the band, then the Athletic Department can get extra events covered by using only portions of the band.  If there are 60 students in the pep band, you could use groups of 15-20 at a time to cover ancillary events and spread the requirements out.

We aren't talking about half. Desmet said they wiped out a 250$ per semester scholarship. The AD is also asking these volunteers to work booster events, nonrevenue sports and the like. It sounds like the AD does want live music for it's events. Cool. Pay people for it. It doesn't take a half scholarship at SLU(which is what like a million by now?)

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11 minutes ago, Soderball said:

We aren't talking about half. Desmet said they wiped out a 250$ per semester scholarship. The AD is also asking these volunteers to work booster events, nonrevenue sports and the like. It sounds like the AD does want live music for it's events. Cool. Pay people for it. It doesn't take a half scholarship at SLU(which is what like a million by now?)

If it costs $60,000 to go to SLU and you typically get 30 hours of credit in per year (15 per semester), then giving you 2 credits per semester, 4 per year, is very valuable.  By my calculations, you are allowing kids to use about $8,000 of their tuition money on something that they, presumably, love doing, and giving them an easy A on the report card to help the GPA.  I think that is more valuable than giving them $250 off of their $60,000 tuition.

EDIT - It would be $500 per year if it is $250 per semester.  Still doesn't change my point.  Giving the credit is more of an incentive than a $500 scholarship.

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