GDT: SIUE

[cheeseman]

Just now, cheeseman said:

Ok enough with the Scrooge spirit.  Being rude to someone does not make you a bad person it only makes you a rude person.  I also would have thought that if he was such a bad person Rachel Diener would not have continued working for him.  Clearly he had some amount of goodness in him.

 

[MUTGR]

On 12/23/2022 at 4:25 PM, wgstl said:

Illinois was horrible, but doesn’t take away the fact mizzou hustled, and also couldn’t miss 

Yes, the hustle was impressive.  The shooting was out of their mind, a bit flukish.

Merry Christmas, by the way. 

[Billiken Rich]

4 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Ok enough with the Scrooge spirit.  Being rude some one does not make you a bad person it only makes you a rude person.

Dude.   I tried to be nice and you called me out for it.  If you treat little people like an ass that makes you an ass. Do it often and you are a bad person.  I'd have liked to have broken bread with the guy and had him try to explain three dimensional basketball chess to me but I wouldn't want to be a plebe that inconvenienced the guy....... 

[Billiken Rich]

1 hour ago, MUTGR said:

Yes, the hustle was impressive.  The shooting was out of their mind, a bit flukish.

Merry Christmas, by the way. 

And to you.  I appreciate the non-trolling post.  After some of what was said about the Tigers on this board this year, we probably deserve a little nose-rubbing in it.  I appreciate your restraint and, strangely, wish the Tigers well this year.  They've got spunk..........something the Bills are missing presently....

[Slu let the dogs out?]

15 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

I haven’t done it, but this would be a really good season to be locked in on the entirety of college basketball. With the COVID year, NIL, and transfer rules it would be interesting to see what sort of mix the top 25 type teams have. Illinois has a ton of talent and length, but clearly the chemistry or mix isn’t quite there at this point in the season. Most of the roster is new whether it be big time transfers (Shannon and Mayer who are 4th and 5th year guys and Dainja) or freshmen (Epps, Skyy Clark, Harris, and Rodgers) and then the few contributing guys who have been around are stepping into bigger roles (Coleman Hawkins and Melendez). So, the continuity just isn’t there. Not saying that can’t work, but it becomes essentially the Kentucky model for a lot of programs across the country just with transfers vs. one and dones. We’ve seen how the mix sometimes works and sometimes blows up at Kentucky when each season you are bringing in essentially a completely new group of players. And then you throw in NIL and I have to imagine that makes things potentially even more volatile. Maybe something worth doing once I slow down at work since it’s not like I have a social life at this point. Could be interesting to see whether there are any common themes. I know with college football transfer QBs the results were all across the board.

Honestly this was why I thought we had a real opportunity to make noise this winter. With a roster that has been together for years, primarily grown men at this point, and a number of all conference caliber players it seemed like such a great opportunity to take that next step. And then we added two grad transfers who profiled as more role player types (plus many of us know Pickett from his time at Mizzou where the coaches loved him) and a JUCO scorer, so guys you figure have the maturity to mesh. I do think we failed to supplement the roster with missing positions or skill sets (a true combo guard and stretch big) which appears to be a failure, but I thought that might just dictate how we play. For whatever reason, we just haven’t played to the level and consistency you would expect given the experience of the roster. I suppose the health of Perkins needs to be mentioned as he continues to work to full strength, but otherwise we are seeing a team not playing up to its perceived ability with little individual development. Hopefully we see growth over the conference season and put it together at the right time, I think that is what we are left with after that SIUE loss.

I have been amazed seeing the number of players on rosters who are in their 5th seasons of college basketball. Way more players than I was expecting using that COVID year.

Long way of saying with some of the “new” dynamics of college basketball, it will be interesting to see how different programs approach it and what profile of program or model seems to be having the most success.

Agree, Illinois has top 10-15 talent (see: wins vs UCLA in Vegas and Texas @ Texas). I’d imagine they’ll find some chemistry by the end of conference play. Impressive win for Mizzou. SLU is used to being on the wrong end of those neutral court blowouts under Ford. 
 

Talk about perspective, my Kentucky buddy is “fed up” with Coach Cal and wants him gone. Should be easy to kick him to the curb, he only has a lifetime contract and a $54M buyout. Now when people say “who are you going to find that’s better?”…. That seems more applicable to Kentucky’s situation than ours. 

[cheeseman]

7 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Dude.   I tried to be nice and you called me out for it.  If you treat little people like an ass that makes you an ass. Do it often and you are a bad person.  I'd have liked to have broken bread with the guy and had him try to explain three dimensional basketball chess to me but I wouldn't want to be a plebe that inconvenienced the guy....... 

Dude, I am sorry you have taken this personal.

[MUTGR]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:14 PM, Billiken Rich said:

And to you.  I appreciate the non-trolling post.  After some of what was said about the Tigers on this board this year, we probably deserve a little nose-rubbing in it.  I appreciate your restraint and, strangely, wish the Tigers well this year.  They've got spunk..........something the Bills are missing presently....

While I'm not a Billiken fan per se, it would sadden me if Travis Ford fails there.  I don't know him personally at all, but I've always kind of liked him from his Mizzou days even though he bolted for greener (bluer) pastures and thought he was underrated as a coach at OSU back in Mizzou's Big 12 days. 

Anyway, good luck the rest of the way. College sports baffles me now with the portal and NIL.  Not sure what to make of any of it. 

[TheA_Bomb]

NIL is the "Sound and the Fury signifying nothing. "

 

Look at the Top 25 today, look at a Top 25 10 years ago 15, 20 years ago are they really different?  The big schools are still the big schools. They always had more $ more support.  Maybe Deion Sanders at Jacksonville St was an outlier in FB but did he win a NC?  No. 

Chill NIL/transfers are new but the sport stays the same.

 

(If we could've struck while the iron was hot perhaps we could've taken advantage of the newness of NIL.  But we didn't.)

[Lord Elrond]

2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

NIL is the "Sound and the Fury signifying nothing. "

 

Look at the Top 25 today, look at a Top 25 10 years ago 15, 20 years ago are they really different?  The big schools are still the big schools. They always had more $ more support.  Maybe Deion Sanders at Jacksonville St was an outlier in FB but did he win a NC?  No. 

Chill NIL/transfers are new but the sport stays the same.

 

(If we could've struck while the iron was hot perhaps we could've taken advantage of the newness of NIL.  But we didn't.)

I’m going to assume that the money was always there, it was just passed to players in plain envelopes by shady people in back rooms.  The only thing NIL did was change how it went to players, and shine a huge light on what’s been really going on the last 20 years for everyone else to see.

[billikenbill]

After listening to The Pressbox podcast discussing the game and Midtown Madness’s breakdown, I decided to watch the replay. Didn’t see or listen to it as it happened.
 

I’m at the 11:47 mark of the second half with the Bills up 51-36 and Perkins has been on fire having scored 23 at this point. He definitely looks like he’s rounding back to form. My impression so far is that, outside of Jimerson’s misfires and Forrester not being able to finish, the team has looked good on both ends. Complain about the rebounding all you want but so much about rebounding is random bouncing of long-range misses falling in the other team’s hands. Some nights they fall into yours and other nights they don’t.

So far, we’ve been totally jobbed by the refs. Franco’s 3rd and 4th fouls were total jokes and there are at least two other foul calls, one on TJ, that are ridiculous. We got reverse home-cooked by the refs. Maybe watching the final 11:47, I’ll see why Perk didn’t score again and why everyone is busting on Yuri. The team I’ve seen for 28 mins. looks like an improving team that needs Jimerson to get his shot going, and the Franco of last year to re-emerge to give us a threat in the post.

At this point, I see a glimmer of hope that we’ll be an improved team in conference play, and one who could earn the auto bid in what looks like a weak league. Maybe after watching the final 11:47, I’ll see something different. Have to wait awhile though.

[dlarry]

32 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

After listening to The Pressbox podcast discussing the game and Midtown Madness’s breakdown, I decided to watch the replay. Didn’t see or listen to it as it happened.
 

I’m at the 11:47 mark of the second half with the Bills up 51-36 and Perkins has been on fire having scored 23 at this point. He definitely looks like he’s rounding back to form. My impression so far is that, outside of Jimerson’s misfires and Forrester not being able to finish, the team has looked good on both ends. Complain about the rebounding all you want but so much about rebounding is random bouncing of long-range misses falling in the other team’s hands. Some nights they fall into yours and other nights they don’t.

So far, we’ve been totally jobbed by the refs. Franco’s 3rd and 4th fouls were total jokes and there are at least two other foul calls, one on TJ, that are ridiculous. We got reverse home-cooked by the refs. Maybe watching the final 11:47, I’ll see why Perk didn’t score again and why everyone is busting on Yuri. The team I’ve seen for 28 mins. looks like an improving team that needs Jimerson to get his shot going, and the Franco of last year to re-emerge to give us a threat in the post.

At this point, I see a glimmer of hope that we’ll be an improved team in conference play, and one who could earn the auto bid in what looks like a weak league. Maybe after watching the final 11:47, I’ll see something different. Have to wait awhile though.

For the final 11:47 

[Bills By 40]

On 12/24/2022 at 1:09 PM, Schasz said:

Read Rick's book My Life on a Napkin sometime. Read it when he coached the Bills. Wasn't an easy book to find as it only covers part of his great career, but I gained some good insight into him as a person and as a HOF HC. His years at SLU even though we had moved to FL were memorable for me. Did get back to see the Bills play a couple times. 

On 12/24/2022 at 2:53 PM, cheeseman said:

Did the same - good read

I just purchased it on ebay, looking forward to it. 

[Taj79]

Lookign forward to billikenbill's final 11:47 breakdown.  

[billikenbill]

59 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Lookign forward to billikenbill's final 11:47 breakdown.  

The anticipation…. Good things come to those who wait.

[billikenbill]

OK, the final 11:47. You all saw it, no need for further explanation.

[Lord Elrond]

22 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

OK, the final 11:47. You all saw it, no need for further explanation.

Brutal

[Taj79]

DAMN bill ----- was hoping for some new insight!  A fresh analysis.  Something missed.

[billikenbill]

44 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

DAMN bill ----- was hoping for some new insight!  A fresh analysis.  Something missed.

I’ll see what I can do.

[billikenbill]

OK, minute by minute. We come out of the timeout and score 2 easy buckets with excellent ball movement. Pruitt hits 1 of 2 from the stripe and it’s 55-37. Pruitt is hard for us to guard. 

Next possession, they miss a 3, we have an easy rebound, and Pickett commits a ridiculous foul on the rebound. What was he thinking? Lead is at 17. We have a blocked JP shot, not a bad idea, and a Yuri turnover. Credit to SIUE for two very good defensive plays. 10:01 to go, lead at 15, Jimerson in for Perk.

Another dime from Yuri to Forrester, lead at 17. We lost this game? Still good ball movement with the Yuri pass to Forrester and he’s fouled. Lead at 16, under 9.

Holy crap, that stepback 3 from Minor. Second 3 in a row, lead at 11. Terrific follow by Thatch and it’s 61-48. So we only score 6 pts. over the last 7 mins.

Jimerson can’t buy a shot but they were good open looks, some of which just rimmed out. 61-50 and Forrester misses the front end. Yuri makes two at 5:54 and it’s 63-50. We really lost this game?

Pruitt was the difference-maker in this game. Just knocked down a triple from 2’ behind the arc. Wouldn’t call it bad D there. They’re just knocking down 3s. So we tried to get Perk a look and he couldn’t get a shot. Yuri gets stuffed at the rim but not a bad shot as the shotclock was running out.

Just awful D on the Taylor jump shot to cut it to 5. Looked like they quit on the play. UGLY. Yuri went hero ball got stuffed, and they make another difficult three. Yuri drives and scores. Yuri drives again, late in the clock and it rims out. No problem with the shot.

So Ford brings in Fred for Perk. I get why you do that but then Pickett checks in. That’s where we needed JP on the court. Franco misses 2 FTs and Pickett once again commits an incredibly dumb foul on the rebound. What are you thinking, Javon?

Yuri once again goes hero ball, and misses one of two. 67-66 with a min. to go and Taylor makes a tough shot. Fred was there playing good D but SIUE made the tough shot. That was a terrible call against Franco. We got screwed on that one.

To sum it up, SIUE went crazy from the arc, we missed FTs, Jimerson has got to make some shots, Pickett committed two back-breaking fouls, and Perk should have been on the floor in those late possessions. I really didn’t have a problem with Yuri except on one of those hero ball drives. He drew the foul on the other so no problem.

We have to win the conference tourney to get a bid and it’s doable. Above and beyond anything else, you have to play smart basketball and one player in particular didn’t do that against the Cougars. Clean that up, make FTs and this team can get it done.

 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

2 hours ago, billikenbill said:

OK, minute by minute. We come out of the timeout and score 2 easy buckets with excellent ball movement. Pruitt hits 1 of 2 from the stripe and it’s 55-37. Pruitt is hard for us to guard. 

Next possession, they miss a 3, we have an easy rebound, and Pickett commits a ridiculous foul on the rebound. What was he thinking? Lead is at 17. We have a blocked JP shot, not a bad idea, and a Yuri turnover. Credit to SIUE for two very good defensive plays. 10:01 to go, lead at 15, Jimerson in for Perk.

Another dime from Yuri to Forrester, lead at 17. We lost this game? Still good ball movement with the Yuri pass to Forrester and he’s fouled. Lead at 16, under 9.

Holy crap, that stepback 3 from Minor. Second 3 in a row, lead at 11. Terrific follow by Thatch and it’s 61-48. So we only score 6 pts. over the last 7 mins.

Jimerson can’t buy a shot but they were good open looks, some of which just rimmed out. 61-50 and Forrester misses the front end. Yuri makes two at 5:54 and it’s 63-50. We really lost this game?

Pruitt was the difference-maker in this game. Just knocked down a triple from 2’ behind the arc. Wouldn’t call it bad D there. They’re just knocking down 3s. So we tried to get Perk a look and he couldn’t get a shot. Yuri gets stuffed at the rim but not a bad shot as the shotclock was running out.

Just awful D on the Taylor jump shot to cut it to 5. Looked like they quit on the play. UGLY. Yuri went hero ball got stuffed, and they make another difficult three. Yuri drives and scores. Yuri drives again, late in the clock and it rims out. No problem with the shot.

So Ford brings in Fred for Perk. I get why you do that but then Pickett checks in. That’s where we needed JP on the court. Franco misses 2 FTs and Pickett once again commits an incredibly dumb foul on the rebound. What are you thinking, Javon?

Yuri once again goes hero ball, and misses one of two. 67-66 with a min. to go and Taylor makes a tough shot. Fred was there playing good D but SIUE made the tough shot. That was a terrible call against Franco. We got screwed on that one.

To sum it up, SIUE went crazy from the arc, we missed FTs, Jimerson has got to make some shots, Pickett committed two back-breaking fouls, and Perk should have been on the floor in those late possessions. I really didn’t have a problem with Yuri except on one of those hero ball drives. He drew the foul on the other so no problem.

We have to win the conference tourney to get a bid and it’s doable. Above and beyond anything else, you have to play smart basketball and one player in particular didn’t do that against the Cougars. Clean that up, make FTs and this team can get it done.

 

@laker119 Pickett had a tough game forsure 

[gobillsgo]

17 hours ago, billikenbill said:

After listening to The Pressbox podcast discussing the game and Midtown Madness’s breakdown, I decided to watch the replay. Didn’t see or listen to it as it happened.
 

I’m at the 11:47 mark of the second half with the Bills up 51-36 and Perkins has been on fire having scored 23 at this point. He definitely looks like he’s rounding back to form. My impression so far is that, outside of Jimerson’s misfires and Forrester not being able to finish, the team has looked good on both ends. Complain about the rebounding all you want but so much about rebounding is random bouncing of long-range misses falling in the other team’s hands. Some nights they fall into yours and other nights they don’t.

So far, we’ve been totally jobbed by the refs. Franco’s 3rd and 4th fouls were total jokes and there are at least two other foul calls, one on TJ, that are ridiculous. We got reverse home-cooked by the refs. Maybe watching the final 11:47, I’ll see why Perk didn’t score again and why everyone is busting on Yuri. The team I’ve seen for 28 mins. looks like an improving team that needs Jimerson to get his shot going, and the Franco of last year to re-emerge to give us a threat in the post.

At this point, I see a glimmer of hope that we’ll be an improved team in conference play, and one who could earn the auto bid in what looks like a weak league. Maybe after watching the final 11:47, I’ll see something different. Have to wait awhile though.

The amount of times this happens in our own building is outrageous.  I maintain that it happens because it takes three or four REALLY bad calls for our fans to get on the refs, and by then they’ve already significantly affected the outcome. 
 

look at any other high level program with good crowds.  This may not be the best example since they barely fill their building half-full on a normal night when they’ve got a cupcake scheduled, but from the very start, Mizzou fans were on the refs LOUDLY in the Kentucky game the other night. It really set the tone from the tip. And it showed, in that almost nobody except Tshiebwe on Kentucky shot free throws, and that’s exactly who you want shooting them if you’re playing against Kentucky. 

[TheChosenOne]

Hahaha, the refs always screw us on our home court and give favorable calls at the arena of the program that I hate. Said every fan ever. Even Kansas fans think they get screwed by the refs. I assume nobody commented on the officiating late in the Providence game.

[HoosierPal]

3 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Hahaha, the refs always screw us on our home court and give favorable calls at the arena of the program that I hate. Said every fan ever. Even Kansas fans think they get screwed by the refs. I assume nobody commented on the officiating late in the Providence game.

Isn't it amazing that every team in America gets screwed by the refs.  If every team gets bad calls, who is paying off the refs to swing the game?

[billikenbill]

8 minutes ago, TheChosenOne said:

Hahaha, the refs always screw us on our home court and give favorable calls at the arena of the program that I hate. Said every fan ever. Even Kansas fans think they get screwed by the refs. I assume nobody commented on the officiating late in the Providence game.

No doubt we got some favorable calls against Providence. Has nothing to do with the poor officiating in the SIUE game. 
 

Still, the game was there for the taking but it didn’t happen. On to St. Joe’s.

[Taj79]

@billikenbill--- thanks man.  Looks like you saw what everyone else saw with the exception of brian who properly dissected Yuri's last five or six minutes.  brian's analysis looked at some of the issues as to why what happened happened --- which I still believe is guided by desperation as the shot clock ticks to zero.  But that is due to the stuff happening at the 15 and 10 second marks as well.  But agreement seems to reign supreme here.

I am with gobillsgo here in his assertion we seem to do this too too too many times in our own building.  That is what is unconscionable to me.  

This is a veteran-laden team making freshmen mistakes.  Can't wait to see what St. Joe's brings.

Thanks again.