Does Anyone Really Think Ford Still Is A Good Coach After This Mess?

[gobillsgo]

2 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

So, Ford has 6 full seasons with the Bills.  He started with a horrible roster so I give him a pass for year 1 and 2.  No transfer portal so you cannot build a competitive roster quick.

Year 3 he got SLU to the Dance.  Nice, to the NCAA's in year 3.

Year 4 a 23-8 record but no bid.  No Tournament due to covid but may have made it, in the discussion.

Year 5 a 14-7 record, covid year mess.  I give Ford a pass.  NIT bid.

Year 6 a 23-12.  In the NCAA Tournament discussion but not selected.  NIT bid.

Year 7 ..... TBD.

So in my estimation Ford got SLU to the Tourney 1 out of 3 years.  Damn good.  I give him this year and next.  This board expected Parker and Perkins to be big factors for this team.  Let's see if they can live up to their "press clippings" in Conference play.  Ford just might have a chance to get his second bid if they can.  The coach bears responsibility for loses ...... but so do the players, something many on this board fail to see over and over again.

 

The excuse this year will be “Oh Ford was expecting more from Perkins, but he was obviously still hurt.”  Then next year it will be, “Ford couldn’t have envisioned both Yuri and Gibson transferring for better NIL opportunities”.  There’s always an excuse for why Ford’s teams underperform expectations. 
 

Obviously they won’t fire him in season, but he’s gotta go after our annual first round NIT loss. 

[BC1764]

2 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Exactly three more.  Anything else?

you’re ok with driving this program further into mediocrity then.

[Billiken Rich]

39 minutes ago, BC1764 said:

you’re ok with driving this program further into mediocrity then.

You must be new here......well at least with this account......

 

 

[BC1764]

So the answer is yes.

[CBFan]

1 minute ago, BC1764 said:

So the answer is yes.

I respect your feelings about the coach and mediocrity.

When I finally took a step back and let my anger go of the way the team lost to Iona and Maryland, blowout and the free throw meltdown at Auburn I realized that this team’s players are not as good as I thought they were. 

I think Okoro will look better playing against A10 teams and so will other players.

The tough non conference schedule showed exactly what the team is this season It’s just not good enough to beat those teams.  Boise State is 9-2 so it’s not a bad loss but it is disappointing.

The team is composed of a lot of likable players such as Thatch, Jimerson, Hargrove, Okoro, Forrester, Perkins, and Collins and I wish them great success and will enjoy the games again for those players and likable coaches.

It does not fix mediocrity but I really like coach Ford’s personality and I have really liked coach Tate being part of the team.

[dlarry]

35 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I respect your feelings about the coach and mediocrity.

When I finally took a step back and let my anger go of the way the team lost to Iona and Maryland, blowout and the free throw meltdown at Auburn I realized that this team’s players are not as good as I thought they were. 

I think Okoro will look better playing against A10 teams and so will other players.

The tough non conference schedule showed exactly what the team is this season It’s just not good enough to beat those teams.  Boise State is 9-2 so it’s not a bad loss but it is disappointing.

The team is composed of a lot of likable players such as Thatch, Jimerson, Hargrove, Okoro, Forrester, Perkins, and Collins and I wish them great success and will enjoy the games again for those players and likable coaches.

It does not fix mediocrity but I really like coach Ford’s personality and I have really liked coach Tate being part of the team.

I think this has been what is hard for me. They just aren’t that talented. 
 

For all the talk about Ford’s recruiting I am beginning to wonder how good it actually is.

He has done well getting local guys but apparently that is more Tate. 
Outside of the locals he’s gotten Jimerson and French and a few transfers. None of these guys were heavily recruited. 
 

I’ve always thought the Bills could be a top 50 team by just keeping the local guys but I’m beginning to think that isn’t the case.

Ford needs to start winning some recruiting battles outside of the metro area if the Bills want to take a step forward.

[Billiken Rich]

1 hour ago, BC1764 said:

So the answer is yes.

My glass is still half full. You don’t appear to even have a glass………

[gobillsgo]

1 hour ago, dlarry said:

I think this has been what is hard for me. They just aren’t that talented. 
 

For all the talk about Ford’s recruiting I am beginning to wonder how good it actually is.

He has done well getting local guys but apparently that is more Tate. 
Outside of the locals he’s gotten Jimerson and French and a few transfers. None of these guys were heavily recruited. 
 

I’ve always thought the Bills could be a top 50 team by just keeping the local guys but I’m beginning to think that isn’t the case.

Ford needs to start winning some recruiting battles outside of the metro area if the Bills want to take a step forward.

I’m with you on this point for sure.  Ford started his tenure here really well recruiting-wise:  Goodwin, French, Gordon were all highly recruited, and we beat out some true blue bloods for them.  Since then, he’s had some above average recruits, but no one that was that highly recruited. It seems his strategy has shifted to getting in early on guys who are under the radar. The problem with that is they’re a lot more hit or miss, and aren’t contributing until year two or even three, if that. As we’ve seen, player development is not a strength for Ford. For all of French’s downfalls, he was at least an impact player for four years, as was Goodwin.  Gordon seemed like he was headed that way too before the transfer.  When’s the last time we had a real impact freshman?  Can’t really think of anyone in the last three years. I guess Collins and Gibson would be the last two qualifiers, since then, nothing. 

[NoCoBillsFan]

20 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

I’m with you on this point for sure.  Ford started his tenure here really well recruiting-wise:  Goodwin, French, Gordon were all highly recruited, and we beat out some true blue bloods for them.  Since then, he’s had some above average recruits, but no one that was that highly recruited. It seems his strategy has shifted to getting in early on guys who are under the radar. The problem with that is they’re a lot more hit or miss, and aren’t contributing until year two or even three, if that. As we’ve seen, player development is not a strength for Ford. For all of French’s downfalls, he was at least an impact player for four years, as was Goodwin.  Gordon seemed like he was headed that way too before the transfer.  When’s the last time we had a real impact freshman?  Can’t really think of anyone in the last three years. I guess Collins and Gibson would be the last two qualifiers, since then, nothing. 

Nesbitt. There’s a discussion to be had about his attitude but he was definitely an impact freshman (that early semester at Memphis doesn’t count imo, he was a freshman).

[JettFlight5]

14 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

So, Ford has 6 full seasons with the Bills.  He started with a horrible roster so I give him a pass for year 1 and 2.  No transfer portal so you cannot build a competitive roster quick.

Year 3 he got SLU to the Dance.  Nice, to the NCAA's in year 3.

Year 4 a 23-8 record but no bid.  No Tournament due to covid but may have made it, in the discussion.

Year 5 a 14-7 record, covid year mess.  I give Ford a pass.  NIT bid.

Year 6 a 23-12.  In the NCAA Tournament discussion but not selected.  NIT bid.

Year 7 ..... TBD.

So in my estimation Ford got SLU to the Tourney 1 out of 3 years.  Damn good.  I give him this year and next.  This board expected Parker and Perkins to be big factors for this team.  Let's see if they can live up to their "press clippings" in Conference play.  Ford just might have a chance to get his second bid if they can.  The coach bears responsibility for loses ...... but so do the players, something many on this board fail to see over and over again.

 

Lot of good stuff here. I agree with a lot (especially the two years digging out of a *he who shalt not be named* sized hole), but my main point of contention was Year 5. I do not give Ford a pass for that season. That team was too good to not play meaningful postseason games. I think Ford can get this team into position to win in Brooklyn...and most of us hope he does. 

[gobillsgo]

20 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

Nesbitt. There’s a discussion to be had about his attitude but he was definitely an impact freshman (that early semester at Memphis doesn’t count imo, he was a freshman).

Wasn’t really counting Nesbitt. Ford missed on him the first time around. Yes, he was a freshman in terms of experience, but Ford wasn’t recruiting against a bunch of others the second time around… he was always coming home last year.   

[Slu let the dogs out?]

1 hour ago, gobillsgo said:

I’m with you on this point for sure.  Ford started his tenure here really well recruiting-wise:  Goodwin, French, Gordon were all highly recruited, and we beat out some true blue bloods for them.  Since then, he’s had some above average recruits, but no one that was that highly recruited. It seems his strategy has shifted to getting in early on guys who are under the radar. The problem with that is they’re a lot more hit or miss, and aren’t contributing until year two or even three, if that. As we’ve seen, player development is not a strength for Ford. For all of French’s downfalls, he was at least an impact player for four years, as was Goodwin.  Gordon seemed like he was headed that way too before the transfer.  When’s the last time we had a real impact freshman?  Can’t really think of anyone in the last three years. I guess Collins and Gibson would be the last two qualifiers, since then, nothing. 

He also had what appeared to be some impact transfers early on in Henriquez, Santos, and Graves. Then again perhaps we were (I was) overvaluing them. I just remember having a case of the jazz hands with Henriquez and Santos. Hard to say how things would've turned out with Adonys and Luis since I believe they both went pro . Ty Graves, on the other hand, turned out to be a dud at NC Central (averaged 5 points 0.5 assists shooting under 33% for both 2P and 3P)

[gobillsgo]

6 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

He also had what appeared to be some impact transfers early on in Henriquez, Santos, and Graves. Then again perhaps we were (I was) overvaluing them. I just remember having a case of the jazz hands with Henriquez and Santos. Hard to say how things would've turned with Adonys and Luis since I believe they both went pro . Ty Graves, on the other hand, turned out to be a dud at NC Central (averaged 5 points 0.5 assists shooting under 33% for both 2P and 3P)

Yep, no major complaints as far as the transfer market goes, although some of these guys are not nearly as good as was expected (Okoro, Rashad Williams, Forrester).   Jury still out on Parker, but he’s certainly looked overmatched against D1 competition.  I just wish Ford was supplementing the transfers with some HS players that actually end up seeing the floor. 

[Dr. Holly Hills]

15 hours ago, dlarry said:

I think this has been what is hard for me. They just aren’t that talented. 
 

For all the talk about Ford’s recruiting I am beginning to wonder how good it actually is.

He has done well getting local guys but apparently that is more Tate. 
Outside of the locals he’s gotten Jimerson and French and a few transfers. None of these guys were heavily recruited. 
 

I’ve always thought the Bills could be a top 50 team by just keeping the local guys but I’m beginning to think that isn’t the case.

Ford needs to start winning some recruiting battles outside of the metro area if the Bills want to take a step forward.

If by ‘just keeping the local guys’ you meant the likes of T reed, Caleb love, etc.  we’d be a top 5 team.  But we can’t even afford those types now.  Let alone convince them to stay home.

[Compton]

14 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Yep, no major complaints as far as the transfer market goes, although some of these guys are not nearly as good as was expected (Okoro, Rashad Williams, Forrester)

Forrester has higher FG%, FT%, RPG, APG, and PPG in fewer MPG this year compared to last. What is it you were expecting?

[gobillsgo]

6 hours ago, Compton said:

Forrester has higher FG%, FT%, RPG, APG, and PPG in fewer MPG this year compared to last. What is it you were expecting?

Considering immediately before the season, we heard directly from Ford that Forrester was one of the most impressive players in practice and would be challenging Okoro for serious minutes, I expected a little more.  I guess I should’ve known better than to trust Ford about that stuff, since we’ve heard it about Strickland, Lorentsson, Jacobs, etc in years past. 
 

Of course, I also expected some improvement from Okoro, or at least continuation of his late season play last year.  I guess technically Forrester is challenging Okoro for minutes… it’s just who can screw up less. 

[Taj79]

Coach speak on Forrester?

[slufan13]

We'll see how the season goes and this game was really bad for a while but Ford switched up some defensive looks, put the right lineup out there, got Jimerson looks from 2 when he was struggling from 3, and got Pickett involved late. Ford made good adjustments tonight and we got the win

[JettFlight5]

2 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

We'll see how the season goes and this game was really bad for a while but Ford switched up some defensive looks, put the right lineup out there, got Jimerson looks from 2 when he was struggling from 3, and got Pickett involved late. Ford made good adjustments tonight and we got the win

Agreed. Once Drake had to work for offense they struggled.

[drkelsey55]

Ford could feel all the MBM's breathing down his neck.

 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, drkelsey55 said:

Ford could feel all the MBM's breathing down his neck.

 

And a good thing it was, it yielded the correct results. I think we should continue breathing down his neck if we want to get to the Dance.

[cheeseman]

Maybe he not a bad coach but has poor people skills.  Players who are always saying at half time it is not my fault tells me he is not the kind of coach who gets players to always buy in.  That was not something we thought was his weakness when he was hired but maybe his supposed X and O issues are not that at all but his relationships.

[Aquinas]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Maybe he not a bad coach but has poor people skills.  Players who are always saying at half time it is not my fault tells me he is not the kind of coach who gets players to always buy in.  That was not something we thought was his weakness when he was hired but maybe his supposed X and O issues are not that at all but his relationships.

I dont think you can be a good recruiter with bad people skills. Right now getting players to play defense and play selflessly is harder than ever. Player want highlight video and offensive numbers. They are distracted by NBA dreams, NIL and transferring. They have a lot of people in their ear. Coaches today have to get through a lot of noise to reach a player.

I think Ford has demonstrated his people skills in recruiting and this past season by keeping this team together. We would be looking at a very different season if Yuri had bolted and Picket not joined the team. None of the returning players had to come back. I alsovthink that a month from now we will be glad Perkins came back.

[cheeseman]

4 hours ago, Aquinas said:

I dont think you can be a good recruiter with bad people skills. Right now getting players to play defense and play selflessly is harder than ever. Player want highlight video and offensive numbers. They are distracted by NBA dreams, NIL and transferring. They have a lot of people in their ear. Coaches today have to get through a lot of noise to reach a player.

I think Ford has demonstrated his people skills in recruiting and this past season by keeping this team together. We would be looking at a very different season if Yuri had bolted and Picket not joined the team. None of the returning players had to come back. I alsovthink that a month from now we will be glad Perkins came back.

I beg to differ.  Trying to sell someone on something is a lot different then trying to maintain a long term relationship.  Two completely different skills.

[GOSLU68]

I like Ford but I do think this year’s team needs to step up defensive effort to steal the ball an rebounding seems sporadic in effort.

I hope Cisse and the freshmen get to play a lot in the SIUE game