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An oldie but a goodie, getting new life


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12 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

From the article:

If we’re talking about the difference between $5 million for 11 programs and $6 million for 12, I don’t know if it’s actually worth pulling the trigger because......”

That line right there makes it a totally worthless article.  No financially responsible organization is turning down a 20% increase in media rights to protect a round robin schedule.  Then we get into even more insane ramblings about how Kansas shouldn’t care about the fact their football program generates more revenue by itself than in the Big 12 than they would get in the Big East for all their other sports.  
 

I thought KU fans were the most delusional fans when it came to their place in the pecking order, but Marquette fans take the title.

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13 minutes ago, brianstl said:

From the article:

If we’re talking about the difference between $5 million for 11 programs and $6 million for 12, I don’t know if it’s actually worth pulling the trigger because......”

That line right there makes it a totally worthless article.  No financially responsible organization is turning down a 20% increase in media rights to protect a round robin schedule.  Then we get into even more insane ramblings about how Kansas shouldn’t care about the fact their football program generates more revenue by itself than in the Big 12 than they would get in the Big East for all their other sports.  
 

I thought KU fans were the most delusional fans when it came to their place in the pecking order, but Marquette fans take the title.

I mean, seriously.  The KU to the BE talk didn't make sense when KU's football team sucked, but they're actually good now!

And @BigMouthBilliken's line about Dayton being the top candidate is dead on.  I gotta think we're second, or at best option 1B.

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36 minutes ago, brianstl said:

From the article:

If we’re talking about the difference between $5 million for 11 programs and $6 million for 12, I don’t know if it’s actually worth pulling the trigger because......”

That line right there makes it a totally worthless article.  No financially responsible organization is turning down a 20% increase in media rights to protect a round robin schedule.  Then we get into even more insane ramblings about how Kansas shouldn’t care about the fact their football program generates more revenue by itself than in the Big 12 than they would get in the Big East for all their other sports.  
 

I thought KU fans were the most delusional fans when it came to their place in the pecking order, but Marquette fans take the title.

I have to agree, no college in a Power 5 football conference would leave that conference for the Big East, unless they were simultaneously getting rid of their football program or moving just the football team to D2. It’s not even a remote possibility.

But that also points out the position the Big East is in, because no Power 5 conference is going to be stealing a school from the Big East either (yes, UConn has football, but obviously everyone in the football conferences is passing on them). Also, I don’t see any basketball only conferences being in a position to lure a school away from the Big East either.  Could, for example, the A10 lure one of the Big East Conference teams to join the A10? I don’t see that, nor do I see any other conference being able to do it.  

If the above is true, then the Big East really doesn’t need anyone else, nor are they worried about losing anyone if they don’t expand.They are expecting an increase without adding anyone, the question is, does adding any new member drive up the TV rights fees enough that when you divide up the money more ways with the new members, you get more than you would not adding anyone.

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52 minutes ago, brianstl said:

From the article:

If we’re talking about the difference between $5 million for 11 programs and $6 million for 12, I don’t know if it’s actually worth pulling the trigger because......”

That line right there makes it a totally worthless article.  No financially responsible organization is turning down a 20% increase in media rights to protect a round robin schedule.  Then we get into even more insane ramblings about how Kansas shouldn’t care about the fact their football program generates more revenue by itself than in the Big 12 than they would get in the Big East for all their other sports.  
 

I thought KU fans were the most delusional fans when it came to their place in the pecking order, but Marquette fans take the title.


The secret of college athletics is that even the schools getting big media deals are still leaving above their means. Alabama brings in a ton of money but spends a ton+1 of money. No school is turning down a 20% increase in anything for a little inconvenience to the coaches or athletes. See UCLA/USC to the Big 10. 

That article is full of jokes, but the biggest one is in the writer's hand when he takes a leak. 

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12 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

If you give the new A10 coaches 3 years to build their programs, I think the A10 will be very close to the Big East in terms of performance.

If martin and miller stay, Umass, Rhody along with SLU, VCU, UD, and loychi more years than not will all finish T75.  As of kenpom, the BE is projected to have just 2 more teams than that in the T75

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1 hour ago, wgstl said:

If martin and miller stay, Umass, Rhody along with SLU, VCU, UD, and loychi more years than not will all finish T75.  As of kenpom, the BE is projected to have just 2 more teams than that in the T75

Now we just need Fordham (without Neptune) and La Salle to pull it together and we’d be solid. 

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Duquesne, Bonaventure, La Salle, Fordham, Mason, George Washington and Davidson are teams more apt to be Division 1AA than D1A.  They belong in  the lower rated Patriot, Northeast, Colonial, Metro Atlantic or kesser conferences.  St. Joes, Loyola and Richmond are borderline.  Umass and Rhodey HOPE Martin  and Miller can save them  otherwise they too are irrelevant in the big scheme of things.  

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28 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Duquesne, Bonaventure, La Salle, Fordham, Mason, George Washington and Davidson are teams more apt to be Division 1AA than D1A.  They belong in  the lower rated Patriot, Northeast, Colonial, Metro Atlantic or kesser conferences.  St. Joes, Loyola and Richmond are borderline.  Umass and Rhodey HOPE Martin  and Miller can save them  otherwise they too are irrelevant in the big scheme of things.  

VCU isn't what they used to be and Dayton is the fourth best program in their state.

There's really just one A10 team that stands above the rest.

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As much as I hate those Marmalade Sandwich eating Elmer Fudge loving Flyers, have to give them credit... They were primed to be a #2 seed in the 2020 NCAA Tournament ,( we would have beat them in the A-10 tourney to knock then out of a #1 seed).. That was their year... they lost out  

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

Duquesne, Bonaventure, La Salle, Fordham, Mason, George Washington and Davidson are teams more apt to be Division 1AA than D1A.  They belong in  the lower rated Patriot, Northeast, Colonial, Metro Atlantic or kesser conferences.  St. Joes, Loyola and Richmond are borderline.  Umass and Rhodey HOPE Martin  and Miller can save them  otherwise they too are irrelevant in the big scheme of things.  

Davidson has kicked our ass the past few years

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12 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Duquesne, Bonaventure, La Salle, Fordham, Mason, George Washington and Davidson are teams more apt to be Division 1AA than D1A.  They belong in  the lower rated Patriot, Northeast, Colonial, Metro Atlantic or kesser conferences.  St. Joes, Loyola and Richmond are borderline.  Umass and Rhodey HOPE Martin  and Miller can save them  otherwise they too are irrelevant in the big scheme of things.  

Why such disrespect for Davidson?  Since joining the conference in 2014/2015 their conference record is 91 and 46, or .664.  How many conference teams have played better in conference over that period?

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1 hour ago, CenHudDude said:

Why such disrespect for Davidson?  Since joining the conference in 2014/2015 their conference record is 91 and 46, or .664.  How many conference teams have played better in conference over that period?

Exactly. Taj missed the memo on this one. 

Davidson has been great since joining the A10 and just prior to joining the A10 they produced the greatest shooter in the history of basketball. I imagine his stance comes solely from the idea that they're a smaller school with lesser facilities and funding and for that reason the fact that they consistently do more with much less is irrelevant. Bad take. 

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40 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

Davidson has been great since joining the A10 and just prior to joining the A10 they produced the greatest shooter in the history of basketball. I imagine his stance comes solely from the idea that they're a smaller school with lesser facilities and funding and for that reason the fact that they consistently do more with much less is irrelevant. Bad take. 

I'd trade Davidson's basketball results for SLU's over the last 20 years in a heartbeat. 

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Sorry, Taj Mahal 79, I have to agree with the above on Davidson. They’ve been a great addition to the A10. They usually play a tough non con schedule and hold their own. Then usually out perform expectations in conference play. I hate ‘em because they are a pain to play and beat us with what appears to be a bunch of foreign stiffs. They don’t have down years, as we did under Dead, hence their conference record. It will be interesting to see how they do without McKillop Sr, but I expect not much will change under Jr. They remind me of Butler without the Final 4s in their resume. 

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The point with Davidson is that while they do have a decent record over time and in the A10, this whole exercise was who from the A10 should go along should the system goes to D1A and D1AA.  That is not based just on what have you done for me lately (or the Billikens may very well be ushered out i that regard in some circles) but what is the commitment going into athletics in general and basketball specifically.  If you are going to say 'oh, Steph Curry came from Davidson so they are automatically D1A" then you have to go the same route for schools like Central Arkansas (Scottie Pippin), Eastern Michigan (George Gervin), Virginia Union (Charles Oakley) and even lowly little St. Bonaventure (Bob Lanier).  And I'm still looking for the memo on this one.  Can't fail the reading comprehension if I don't see the memo.

The fact of the matter is that no matter who goes up, who goes down, or who stays the same, something subjective will play in the conversation and ratings will be done in the same manner as Selection Sundays are.  In my selective subjectivity, I don't see Davidson having enough moxie to make the cut, regardless of recent record.  Who do you get "up" for in the A10?  Dayton.  VCU.  Saint Louis.  The problem is you have to be ready for everyone because someone will bite you somewhere but the aforementioned are really the big three right now ----- and that is being generous to the Billikens.  Davidson and Richmond are sneaky for sure ..... but I attribute that to Mooney and McKillop's systems and not necessarily their athletes.  

The final part of the equation I am looking at is investment in facilities.   A10 arenas are either dumps (Fordham, La Salle, Geedubya, Bonaventure, and St. Joes); empty (Umass, Rhode Island, Mason); small (Duquesne, Loyola, and Davidson); okay (VCU and Richmond) or palaces (Chaifetz, Dayton).  No school plays FBS football (sorry -- not you Umass) so all are on the lesser scales there.  Dayton has excellent complimentary facilities and SLU is running well with soccer, baseball, softball and the O'Loughlin Center.  

I can see the comparison with Butler but as pointed out, no Final Fours.  Do you add points to Mason, VCU, Bradley, Duquesne, Dartmouth, NYU, Holy Cross, Santa Clara and La Salle for getting there?  How much do you add for La Salle's 1954 National title?  My point would be you don't.  Those getting upgrades are based on the here and now.  Kind of like us getting left behind in the Big East's most recent reconfiguration.  

Am I right?  No.  There is no pat answer.

As for this year, Davidson's staring lineup is Foster Loyer, Sam Mennenga, David Skrogman (Buffalo), Grant Huffman and likely Connor Kochera (William & Mary).  The bench is one redshirt, two walk-ons and two near seven-foot, bean pole freshmen.  I'm thinking Junior has his work cut out for him.  But don't sleep walk when in Davidson.

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On 10/21/2022 at 8:15 PM, Taj79 said:

The point with Davidson is that while they do have a decent record over time and in the A10, this whole exercise was who from the A10 should go along should the system goes to D1A and D1AA.  That is not based just on what have you done for me lately (or the Billikens may very well be ushered out i that regard in some circles) but what is the commitment going into athletics in general and basketball specifically.  If you are going to say 'oh, Steph Curry came from Davidson so they are automatically D1A" then you have to go the same route for schools like Central Arkansas (Scottie Pippin), Eastern Michigan (George Gervin), Virginia Union (Charles Oakley) and even lowly little St. Bonaventure (Bob Lanier).  And I'm still looking for the memo on this one.  Can't fail the reading comprehension if I don't see the memo.

No, because those schools haven't been good at basketball year-in and year-out for two and a half decades. Davidson has. You're cherry picking a single factor and ignoring all of the valid points against your argument. 

They've made the NCCA tournament 10 times in the last 25 years. 16 regular season conference championships, 8 conference tournament championships 6 of which were in seasons where they also were regular season champs, 1 Elite Eight appearance. And they produced the indisputably greatest shooter in the history of basketball. 

The Billikens in that same 25 year span of time, for contrast - 2 regular season conference championships, 3 conference tournament championships, 6 NCAA tournament appearances but they never made it past the round of 32. 

 

Historically speaking Davidson is a better basketball program than Saint Louis. 


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I already said the Billikens might well be ushered out in my version of the accounting.  Did you miss that part?

Ten times in the NCAAs  yes, but 80% of those came while in the Southern Conference.  Which I highly doubt was as competitive as the A10 is (ignoring the usual bottom feeders).  Who was the competition back then?  App State.  College of Charleston.  Elon.  Georgia Southern.  Virginia Military Institute.  The Citadel.  Chattanooga.  Western Carolina.  East Tennessee State.  Which of these powers would you elevate to the new D1A status if and when it comes along?  In other words, they won the bulk of their conference championships at a lesser level.  Having the so-called greatest shooter in the history of basketball is meaningless.  He's earned most of that in the Bay area.  Yes, it's a nice footnote to their success but that is all.  It adds nothing to the current narrative.  Just like Ed McCauley adds nothing to SLU in the here and now.

Look at it this way, if the Southern Conference were still around (and OOPS, it is) its at best a Juan Bid league and will likely, in total, go the way of D1AA status.  The only team making the Dance was their conference tournament winner.  Davidson was smart to pull out of there but as SLU72 said, they might be Butler short of their two Final Four runs.  When I was in school, Butler was dog meat.   But they haven't done the same damage in the new Big East.  

And don't forget, you still owe me that memo.

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22 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I already said the Billikens might well be ushered out in my version of the accounting.  Did you miss that part?

Ten times in the NCAAs  yes, but 80% of those came while in the Southern Conference.  Which I highly doubt was as competitive as the A10 is (ignoring the usual bottom feeders).  Who was the competition back then?  App State.  College of Charleston.  Elon.  Georgia Southern.  Virginia Military Institute.  The Citadel.  Chattanooga.  Western Carolina.  East Tennessee State.  Which of these powers would you elevate to the new D1A status if and when it comes along?  In other words, they won the bulk of their conference championships at a lesser level.  Having the so-called greatest shooter in the history of basketball is meaningless.  He's earned most of that in the Bay area.  Yes, it's a nice footnote to their success but that is all.  It adds nothing to the current narrative.  Just like Ed McCauley adds nothing to SLU in the here and now.

Look at it this way, if the Southern Conference were still around (and OOPS, it is) its at best a Juan Bid league and will likely, in total, go the way of D1AA status.  The only team making the Dance was their conference tournament winner.  Davidson was smart to pull out of there but as SLU72 said, they might be Butler short of their two Final Four runs.  When I was in school, Butler was dog meat.   But they haven't done the same damage in the new Big East.  

And don't forget, you still owe me that memo.

Dog meat before, and dog meat again ...

I concur.  The majority of Davidson's history was in the Southern Conference.  SLU was in much stronger leagues, Metro, Great Midwest, the then high level version of C-USA, and the A10.

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