Jump to content

The $400,000 Question


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Littlebill said:

Are you not literally doing the opposite here? 

If he were still on this team, people would be saying he may start.

the 9th or 10th statement is one of the crazier things that have been said on this site

Yeah, kind of. I like to stir the pot. But my statement isn't crazy to the degree you claim it to be. 

Sure people may say that, in this hypothetical, but they'd be wildly out of pocket. 

Even you don't believe that. 

5 hours ago, wgstl said:

I would not be shocked if Nesbitt logged the 8th most minutes next year,  possibly 9th depending on Parker.  Would also not be shocked if he was one of our best players.  He could do a ton of different things, but was widely inconsistent(expected for his age), and struggled to put different parts of his game together at once. 

I'm banking on Parker being a similar player that's slightly better at most things and maybe that's just because of Tate hyping him up as JP 2.0, but I have seen him play in person (unlike, assumedly, most of you) and my thoughts at the time were "This kid is gonna come in and take Nesbitt's minutes." He does the same things but with more control. 

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

just curious if you can expand on this and share with us how you know this?   are you in the lockerroom and practices regularly?  do you personally know a player or coach that shared this with you?   i never saw it sitting in the stands as far as "an unhinged attitude".

 The common assumption is that Ford pushed him out, because of these things exactly. It showed all the time on the court and bench but we typically brushed it off as "high energy". I watched him jaw at a ref in a practice scrimmage against his own teammates at Chaifetz last fall and that was the first red flag...Nunez literally pulled him back and said "keep your head in the game JNez." It certainly got better than I thought it'd be but if you didn't see it at all, especially after the cheerleader thing - which was not debunked, and supported by a nearby photographer - then I think you just chose not to see it. 

 

2 hours ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

Name the 8 ahead of him? And don’t include Pickett, because I can almost guarantee we don’t sign him if Nesbitt is still on the team.

I was counting Pickett. I agree, if Nesbitt is here we don't land Pickett, so by those rules subtract 1.

I'd start all of Yuri, Jimerson, Perkins, Okoro, Thatch, and Parker over Nesbitt. Add Pickett under my rules. Forrester probably, yet to be seen if he can return to the level he played at in 2020-21 but he's more valuable as Okoro's replacement. Maybe Hargrove, that one might be personal bias cause I just love TJ. 

2 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Pickett wouldn’t be in front of him anyway

?????????????????????????????????

He outperformed Nesbitt head-to-head while playing on a dogsh!t Mizzou team in a loaded SEC. What makes you think that doesn't give Pickett the edge?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 76
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

1 minute ago, Bills By 40 said:

Maybe Hargrove, that one might be personal bias cause I just love TJ. 

Looking further into their stat lines, Hargrove at = minutes would've been nearly identical with a slight edge in most areas besides the free throw line. I agree Nesbitt had more promise as a backup ball handler and passer so points to him for that but he kind of always looked like he was playing pickup at the park, never indicated he'd learned the system and had the discipline to play highly competitive team ball as a piece and not the centerpiece.


I say all this but want to clarify I liked Nesbitt. I sure thought he was crazy but I liked him.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

?????????????????????????????????

He outperformed Nesbitt head-to-head while playing on a dogsh!t Mizzou team in a loaded SEC. What makes you think that doesn't give Pickett the edge?

Their numbers were pretty comparable. Plus, piling up stats on a terrible team does not tell us anything. From a pure on-court perspective, I would take Sophomore year Nesbitt over Senior year Pickett.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

Yeah, kind of. I like to stir the pot. But my statement isn't crazy to the degree you claim it to be. 

Sure people may say that, in this hypothetical, but they'd be wildly out of pocket. 

Even you don't believe that. 

I'm banking on Parker being a similar player that's slightly better at most things and maybe that's just because of Tate hyping him up as JP 2.0, but I have seen him play in person (unlike, assumedly, most of you) and my thoughts at the time were "This kid is gonna come in and take Nesbitt's minutes." He does the same things but with more control. 

 The common assumption is that Ford pushed him out, because of these things exactly. It showed all the time on the court and bench but we typically brushed it off as "high energy". I watched him jaw at a ref in a practice scrimmage against his own teammates at Chaifetz last fall and that was the first red flag...Nunez literally pulled him back and said "keep your head in the game JNez." It certainly got better than I thought it'd be but if you didn't see it at all, especially after the cheerleader thing - which was not debunked, and supported by a nearby photographer - then I think you just chose not to see it. 

 

I was counting Pickett. I agree, if Nesbitt is here we don't land Pickett, so by those rules subtract 1.

I'd start all of Yuri, Jimerson, Perkins, Okoro, Thatch, and Parker over Nesbitt. Add Pickett under my rules. Forrester probably, yet to be seen if he can return to the level he played at in 2020-21 but he's more valuable as Okoro's replacement. Maybe Hargrove, that one might be personal bias cause I just love TJ. 

?????????????????????????????????

He outperformed Nesbitt head-to-head while playing on a dogsh!t Mizzou team in a loaded SEC. What makes you think that doesn't give Pickett the edge?

At best Nesbitt could have been a top three player on the team. I think we all saw the potential on both offense and defense for him to be elite. Obviously this is dependent on him being in the right space mentally but  we are talking about a best case scenario. 
 

If he can stay focused, I bet he goes on a tear at Hampton.

Gremio14 likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Cowboy.  Very interesting take.

So this has led to few answers and denigrated into a Nesbit value discussion.  I'll drop my question since most don't want to answer it.

For the record, I can see Nesbitt being so talented that he becomes Hampton.  At least 20 ppg.  I can also see him going into the portal again to up his record against better competition ala the knock (rumored) on Yuri.  That or another early entry NBA declaration.  But it would not surprise me to see him disappear ala Gordon and Beidschied, without the Beidschied consequences (maybe).  The Big South is not that strong and Hampton just upgraded from the weaker MEAC in 2018-19.  

I'll watch from a distance thus year and just see how he does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Their numbers were pretty comparable. Plus, piling up stats on a terrible team does not tell us anything. From a pure on-court perspective, I would take Sophomore year Nesbitt over Senior year Pickett.

You're looking at this the wrong way. Pickett drew a ton of defensive attention because he was one of two serviceable players on a team that faced SEC defensives night in and night out. He was every game in conference play facing up against the best or second best defender on a team that was Kentucky, or Auburn, or Tennessee, or Arkansas and still put up better numbers than Nesbitt

Nesbitt played behind the best point guard in the country with Gibson Jimerson on the wing and two phenomenal centers in his front court. He was never the defense's number one priority. All those other people are the reason he put up 8 and 4. 

Best comparison I could find is this -

  • Pickett put up 17p/6r/2s/1b against Auburn as the # 1 or #2 option and in a game where they only scored 54 points (31.5% of team's total points scored). I bet he spent most of the game guarded by Jabari Smith, the 3rd overall pick in the draft last night
  • Nesbitt put up 11p/6r/1a/1s/1b against Auburn as the #4 or #5 option in a game where we scored 70 points (15.7% of team's total points scored).


There's a reason he transferred to Hampton, guys. He never proved to be what he was promised to be.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nesbitt would have been an all conference player as an upperclassman if he bought in to everything Ford and the staff taught him for 4 years. Unfortunately I don't think that was ever something he was/is going to do. He was solid for a freshman. He could have contributed but he's replaceable. 

Bills By 40 likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

You're looking at this the wrong way. Pickett drew a ton of defensive attention because he was one of two serviceable players on a team that faced SEC defensives night in and night out. He was every game in conference play facing up against the best or second best defender on a team that was Kentucky, or Auburn, or Tennessee, or Arkansas. 

Nesbitt played behind the best point guard in the country with Gibson Jimerson on the wing and two phenomenal centers in his front court. He was never the defense's number one priority. All those other people are the reason he put up 8 and 4. 

There's a reason he transferred to Hampton, guys. 

Prepare to be disappointed if you expect Pickett to put up better numbers than Nesbitt did

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Prepare to be disappointed if you expect Pickett to put up better numbers than Nesbitt did

I don't, because this team is drastically better than last year's - there's less ball to go around and 45-60 points per game have to be split between YC/GJ/JPerk/FO, then all the others get the scraps.

 

You're out of your mind if you don't think Pickett would've put up better than 8/4 or even his 11/3/2 at Mizzou if he played on last year's Billikens. 

Young Charles and slufan13 like this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Prepare to be disappointed if you expect Pickett to put up better numbers than Nesbitt did

Nesbitt has a higher ceiling but lower floor than pickett.  Pickett is also far more consistent than Nesbitt. For the type of player we need for next season, pickett is better suited imo. 

slufan13 and RUBillsFan like this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only organization I know of that actually changes people to fit what they are and need to be is the Marine Corps. Everything else leaves some or most of each individual person intact but able to operate as expected. I believe sports teams fit the second category. Therefore, I have to assume that whatever it was that caused this, there was no working fit between Nesbitt and Ford involved in the decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

You're looking at this the wrong way. Pickett drew a ton of defensive attention because he was one of two serviceable players on a team that faced SEC defensives night in and night out. He was every game in conference play facing up against the best or second best defender on a team that was Kentucky, or Auburn, or Tennessee, or Arkansas and still put up better numbers than Nesbitt

Nesbitt played behind the best point guard in the country with Gibson Jimerson on the wing and two phenomenal centers in his front court. He was never the defense's number one priority. All those other people are the reason he put up 8 and 4. 

Best comparison I could find is this -

  • Pickett put up 17p/6r/2s/1b against Auburn as the # 1 or #2 option and in a game where they only scored 54 points (31.5% of team's total points scored). I bet he spent most of the game guarded by Jabari Smith, the 3rd overall pick in the draft last night
  • Nesbitt put up 11p/6r/1a/1s/1b against Auburn as the #4 or #5 option in a game where we scored 70 points (15.7% of team's total points scored).


There's a reason he transferred to Hampton, guys. He never proved to be what he was promised to be.  

You also need to consider that Pickett was a much bigger part of the offense. Often times Nesbitt was left to stand in the corner as the fourth or fifth option

billiken_roy likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

You also need to consider that Pickett was a much bigger part of the offense. Often times Nesbitt was left to stand in the corner as the fourth or fifth option

Ford hates nothing more than when players stand. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

You also need to consider that Pickett was a much bigger part of the offense. Often times Nesbitt was left to stand in the corner as the fourth or fifth option

That's valid, but I'm arguing level of competition. I think that difference makes all things equal for the intents and purposes of this argument. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

You also need to consider that Pickett was a much bigger part of the offense. Often times Nesbitt was left to stand in the corner as the fourth or fifth option

Yes, He was under strict orders from Ford to just stand in the corner. Any standing around Nesbitt did was due to himself

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

I don't understand this desire to itemize Nesbitt's perceived shortcomings.  He had a good freshman season by Billiken standards.  He's moving on to a team where he can be the centerpiece of the offense and we got a more experienced player who will likely produce similar numbers.  This is a win-win for everybody

It’s off season my guy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point Nesbitt is gone, people can follow Hampton’s games to see what he does next year, and we have who we have. If someone could insert a gif of someone beating a dead horse, I think that would close this thread….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I don't understand this desire to itemize Nesbitt's perceived shortcomings.  He had a good freshman season by Billiken standards.  He's moving on to a team where he can be the centerpiece of the offense and we got a more experienced player who will likely produce similar numbers.  This is a win-win for everybody

Agree. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, wgstl said:

Ford hates nothing more than when players stand. 

then why didnt he take nesbit out whenever he did it?   i think he was told to stay in the corner out of collins and jimmerson's way.   if they got trapped he was to come to the ball and bail them out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

then why didnt he take nesbit out whenever he did it?   i think he was told to stay in the corner out of collins and jimmerson's way.   if they got trapped he was to come to the ball and bail them out. 

Agee  with this. Same thing with TJ. They went to the corner to open up the court for Collins to drive and dish. It was part of the offensive sets. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

then why didnt he take nesbit out whenever he did it?   i think he was told to stay in the corner out of collins and jimmerson's way.   if they got trapped he was to come to the ball and bail them out. 

no clue, I don't know why else Coach would yell  "move jordan" as much as he did. 

 

Also, you'll never hear a coach tell a player to stand there, unless its a drawn up play on an inbounds.  That never helps the offense.  

slufanskip likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2022 at 9:14 AM, Bills By 40 said:

You're looking at this the wrong way. Pickett drew a ton of defensive attention because he was one of two serviceable players on a team that faced SEC defensives night in and night out. He was every game in conference play facing up against the best or second best defender on a team that was Kentucky, or Auburn, or Tennessee, or Arkansas and still put up better numbers than Nesbitt

Nesbitt played behind the best point guard in the country with Gibson Jimerson on the wing and two phenomenal centers in his front court. He was never the defense's number one priority. All those other people are the reason he put up 8 and 4. 

Best comparison I could find is this -

  • Pickett put up 17p/6r/2s/1b against Auburn as the # 1 or #2 option and in a game where they only scored 54 points (31.5% of team's total points scored). I bet he spent most of the game guarded by Jabari Smith, the 3rd overall pick in the draft last night
  • Nesbitt put up 11p/6r/1a/1s/1b against Auburn as the #4 or #5 option in a game where we scored 70 points (15.7% of team's total points scored).


There's a reason he transferred to Hampton, guys. He never proved to be what he was promised to be.  

bullseye. for me he had his chance to prove his worth when Yuri was not playing end of season & he showed me nothing..

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...