Jordan Nesbitt Theories

[cgeldmacher]

7 minutes ago, almaman said:

trouble understanding this ? both times. is Hampton in some situation different than the other 354 programs?

I just meant that in the hierarchy of college basketball, I would suspect that the power conference schools will get the most NIL dollars.  Then the high major conferences would get less.  Then mid major.  I would suspect that smaller conferences like the Big South would get the least if not none.  To answer your question, Hampton is in a different situation than many of the 354 programs in that it is in the Big South and not a Power 5 conference or high major conference.

Coach 314 said that he "would" be able to get an NIL deal there.  He may have meant that Nesbitt is not prevented from getting an NIL deal or that it is allowed there.  I took it that he "would" be able to get an NIL deal as meaning it was likely.

[Coach314]

22 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Aren't they all 5 stars?

Not sure.  I would imagine most of them would be.  I was reading an article about a receiver...he was a redshirt freshman who got a deal with Bojangles.  Didn't see his ranking coming out of high school.

[3star_recruit]

I haven't been able to find any HBCU-bound men's basketball players with NIL deals.  There have been so-called "team-wide" NIL deals, like the one Howard offers, that amounts to a small stipend. 

The closest I could find Mikey Williams, a 5 star in 2024.  He's already signed with Puma and is considering an HBCU.  There is also Master P's son, Hercy, who signed a multi-million dollar deal with an app company.  But I think him being Master P's son has more to do with that than his basketball ability.  He averaged 2 ppg last year at Tennessee State.

[TaLBErt]

1 hour ago, HenryB said:

Just asking....what is the value of a Saint Louis University education these days?

It becomes less valuable every year.

[billikenbill]

Has it really been just two weeks since we were all fretting about the Jordan Nesbitt situation? After the infyuriating pg situation, seems like that was months ago.

[NoCoBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Has it really been just two weeks since we were all fretting about the Jordan Nesbitt situation? After the infyuriating pg situation, seems like that was months ago.

He first entered the draft on March 24th, so the saga did actually start a month ago. That whole situation definitely pales in comparison to what we’ve been through the last week 

[ACE]

Personally, I was never really upset or surprised by Nesbitt. We have lost him and are adding Perkins, Pickett and Parker at the wing. I think we'll be just fine without him - way better in fact. Yuri, on the other hand, would've been a different deal. It would've been extremely unlikely to find a comparable or better player at PG.

[Bilzz]

On 4/20/2022 at 2:21 PM, TaLBErt said:

It becomes less valuable every year.

Honestly, on the open market the value of the degree for an athlete is not the same as it is for other students. I went to school at SLU during the height of the Majerus days and was good friends with one of the men's basketball players. As great of a guy as he was, he never went to our classes (even when the team was in town) and didn't really have any of the life or academic skills that would translate to being a good employee. He passed his classes due to help from tutors, but the degree for him isn't worth what it is for your traditional student. The argument that athletes are getting a $160,000 education as payment for the services has always irked me because the degree doesn't mean much if employers de-value it or it doesn't translate to the skillsets developed to get and keep a job.

[wgstl]

I like Nesbitt, I think he has the tools to be a very good player by his senior year.  But as for next year, SLUs *golden* year, Pickett helps a lot more than Nesbitt could. 

[cgeldmacher]

4 hours ago, Bilzz said:

Honestly, on the open market the value of the degree for an athlete is not the same as it is for other students. I went to school at SLU during the height of the Majerus days and was good friends with one of the men's basketball players. As great of a guy as he was, he never went to our classes (even when the team was in town) and didn't really have any of the life or academic skills that would translate to being a good employee. He passed his classes due to help from tutors, but the degree for him isn't worth what it is for your traditional student. The argument that athletes are getting a $160,000 education as payment for the services has always irked me because the degree doesn't mean much if employers de-value it or it doesn't translate to the skillsets developed to get and keep a job.

I agree with what you said as it relates to some players.  However, I don't think you should downgrade the education that others receive.  For instance, I am rather sure that Fred Thatch has gotten and is getting a quality education at SLU.  When I was in school in the 90's much of the basketball team was in the Business School.  I was in classes with Claggett, Highmark, and Waldman.  The current system allows for players to skate by if that is what they choose, but it also still leaves the door open for a player to get a very good education as well.

[slufanskip]

4 hours ago, Bilzz said:

Honestly, on the open market the value of the degree for an athlete is not the same as it is for other students. I went to school at SLU during the height of the Majerus days and was good friends with one of the men's basketball players. As great of a guy as he was, he never went to our classes (even when the team was in town) and didn't really have any of the life or academic skills that would translate to being a good employee. He passed his classes due to help from tutors, but the degree for him isn't worth what it is for your traditional student. The argument that athletes are getting a $160,000 education as payment for the services has always irked me because the degree doesn't mean much if employers de-value it or it doesn't translate to the skillsets developed to get and keep a job.

I always like the I knew someone stories. 

[Bilzz]

18 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I agree with what you said as it relates to some players.  However, I don't think you should downgrade the education that others receive.  For instance, I am rather sure that Fred Thatch has gotten and is getting a quality education at SLU.  When I was in school in the 90's much of the basketball team was in the Business School.  I was in classes with Claggett, Highmark, and Waldman.  The current system allows for players to skate by if that is what they choose, but it also still leaves the door open for a player to get a very good education as well.

That's true. My point being, the argument that players are "compensated" with their scholarships isn't always a fair statement. For some, absolutely, but for others who may not have the God-given intelligence/life skills of other students and got into the institution on athletic ability alone, I don't think that's fair. He or she is not going to receive the benefits of the $160,000 education is they can't translate it into marketable skills on the job market.

[3star_recruit]

9 minutes ago, Bilzz said:

That's true. My point being, the argument that players are "compensated" with their scholarships isn't always a fair statement. For some, absolutely, but for others who may not have the God-given intelligence/life skills of other students and got into the institution on athletic ability alone, I don't think that's fair. He or she is not going to receive the benefits of the $160,000 education is they can't translate it into marketable skills on the job market.

This is true.  So what's the answer -- paying student-athletes who are not college-ready?  How do you think the honor roll student-athletes will feel about that?

 

[billiken_roy]

5 hours ago, Bilzz said:

Honestly, on the open market the value of the degree for an athlete is not the same as it is for other students. I went to school at SLU during the height of the Majerus days and was good friends with one of the men's basketball players. As great of a guy as he was, he never went to our classes (even when the team was in town) and didn't really have any of the life or academic skills that would translate to being a good employee. He passed his classes due to help from tutors, but the degree for him isn't worth what it is for your traditional student. The argument that athletes are getting a $160,000 education as payment for the services has always irked me because the degree doesn't mean much if employers de-value it or it doesn't translate to the skillsets developed to get and keep a job.

then they shouldnt be a "College student athlete".

[Bilzz]

13 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

This is true.  So what's the answer -- paying student-athletes who are not college-ready?  How do you think the honor roll student-athletes will feel about that?

 

Well honor roll students don't generate revenue for the university, so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. The solution I always liked before all this NIL stuff went like this:

    Every college athlete on a team gets a percentage of revenue generated by their program (say 10%). That money goes into a pool and is split evenly between all the players on the team. If your program doesn't generate much revenue, you don't get paid much. To compensate "star" players I would've allowed jersey sales with the player's name on the jersey. Individual players would have a portion of those sales go into their individual pots. So, in theory, Yuri's pot for 2021-22 would've been large than Traore's due to jersey sales even though they each would've received the same portion from the team revenue. All players would get their "education" for free, as well as a monthly stipend that would come out of their pots for walking around money. Players would receive the lump sum for their years at the university upon graduation from a university. If you transfer or don't graduate you forfeit your pot at that institution.

I guess in theory you could expand the jersey sale idea to include some of the NIL stuff going on. I always liked this system because it provides non-professional college athletes a little boost to start their work lives and, in theory, would cut down on transfers.

[Bilzz]

Just now, billiken_roy said:

then they shouldnt be a "College student athlete".

I mean they really aren't "student athletes" in that sense. I was also a buddy and in a night class with a baseball player during my time at SLU. We were in a night class that ran for 14 weeks. Due to his baseball requirements, he only made 2 of the 14 in-person classes.

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, Bilzz said:

I mean they really aren't "student athletes" in that sense. I was also a buddy and in a night class with a baseball player during my time at SLU. We were in a night class that ran for 14 weeks. Due to his baseball requirements, he only made 2 of the 14 in-person classes.

did he take the tests to pass the class concerned?   i had an ethics class where i could read the book and take the test and only went to the first and the midterm and the final exam classes and did fine in the class.  

[Bilzz]

14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

did he take the tests to pass the class concerned?   i had an ethics class where i could read the book and take the test and only went to the first and the midterm and the final exam classes and did fine in the class.  

Yes. With my help/notes and his tutor's help. My point here was that the class syllabus said a student could only miss 2 or 3 weeks of the 14 weeks of classes and he only made 2 weeks. A non-athlete student would've been kicked out of the class. Maybe this changes with the prevalence of remote work, but at the time it was pretty clear that the "athlete" part definitely came first. There was a Real Sports segment a few years back where they profiled a basketball player from UNC or Duke (can't remember) from 10/15 years ago who couldn't read. He didn't go to class and his tutors took his exams. He practiced reading with children's books at night. There's no way that degree is worth ~$200,000 to that man because he can't parlay it into future job opportunities.

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, Bilzz said:

Yes. With my help/notes and his tutor's help. My point here was that the class syllabus said a student could only miss 2 or 3 weeks of the 14 weeks of classes and he only made 2 weeks. A non-athlete student would've been kicked out of the class. Maybe this changes with the prevalence of remote work, but at the time it was pretty clear that the "athlete" part definitely came first. There was a Real Sports segment a few years back where they profiled a basketball player from UNC or Duke (can't remember) from 10/15 years ago who couldn't read. He didn't go to class and his tutors took his exams. He practiced reading with children's books at night. There's no way that degree is worth ~$200,000 to that man because he can't parlay it into future job opportunities.

and you know that the teacher didnt agree to a separate arrangement due to his baseball schedule?  and again, do you know if he actually passed the tests and classwork concerned?   if his only transgression was he didnt sit in lectures, not sure i see the problem.  

i dont think any of us are endorsing fake classes.   is that your point?  

[Bilzz]

38 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

and you know that the teacher didnt agree to a separate arrangement due to his baseball schedule?  and again, do you know if he actually passed the tests and classwork concerned?   if his only transgression was he didnt sit in lectures, not sure i see the problem.  

i dont think any of us are endorsing fake classes.   is that your point?  

I'm not endorsing fake classes in the slightest. I just think the "student-athlete" concept has been dead for quite a while and regardless of the mess of the current NIL system, I'm not opposed to college athletes in revenue-generating sports getting compensated outside of their scholarship (which may or may not have fair market value depending on the athlete).

[HoosierPal]

SLU Athletes who do have their bachelor degree only have to take 6 hours of master credit to be eligible.

[cgeldmacher]

3 hours ago, Bilzz said:

That's true. My point being, the argument that players are "compensated" with their scholarships isn't always a fair statement. For some, absolutely, but for others who may not have the God-given intelligence/life skills of other students and got into the institution on athletic ability alone, I don't think that's fair. He or she is not going to receive the benefits of the $160,000 education is they can't translate it into marketable skills on the job market.

I think that you and I agree. What you were saying is true for many players. I was just pointing out that it’s not true for many other players.

[Old guy]

That is one thing that can be said about the Ivy League. Players that go into any of these schools really want the academic degree and the diploma with the name of the school. This is what it takes for someone to go play for a school that by and large does not give a hoot about sports, except for  the Yale Harvard football game and rowing. This game and the rowing matches are heavily attended blasts. They may win their conference and go to the NCAA and very few people in campus cares or even know anything is happening. These schools have plenty of "easy" courses to  choose from, so there is no need to offer special athletic courses, they take the regular curriculum and graduate on schedule.

[slu72]

56 minutes ago, Old guy said:

That is one thing that can be said about the Ivy League. Players that go into any of these schools really want the academic degree and the diploma with the name of the school. This is what it takes for someone to go play for a school that by and large does not give a hoot about sports, except for  the Yale Harvard football game and rowing. This game and the rowing matches are heavily attended blasts. They may win their conference and go to the NCAA and very few people in campus cares or even know anything is happening. These schools have plenty of "easy" courses to  choose from, so there is no need to offer special athletic courses, they take the regular curriculum and graduate on schedule.

You do know most Ivy League schools have been on the pass/fail grading system since the early 70s. I had a few friends go to them in the early 70s, one played FB another Baseball at Harvard, they said HS was more demanding grade wise. The whole trick was getting in, and alumni or legacy help played a big role in that, but once accepted it was hard to get bounced. 

[Old guy]

That is true SLU 72. I was at Harvard for post graduate, microbiology and immunology, and that was not a cake walk, particularly not the research side. The college does what the college does, I know you can take courses in things like whale life cycles and the like. I believe that the freedom of choosing whatever courses the undergrads want, is not good for the education of a good % of the kids. For those that seek knowledge the resources are available and so are the courses and seminars. For those that seek a soft glide to graduation, that path is certainly available as well. Some of the Ivys have a greater reputation of being party schools (Princeton and Brown), while others are more strict in their rules (Columbia).