2022-2023 Season

[Schasz]

3 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

+

Like you and I, everyone on this board, is free to call out the hateful, or misinformed, or hypocritical opinions of others.  I for one still hold a grudge about your Tennessee antics.  It's going to take a lot of good solid Billiken based posting from you to make me forget that. C'est la vie........

So I guess it is not OK with you that I also root for my wife's Alma Mater. Amazing!!!

[Billiken Rich]

36 minutes ago, Schasz said:

So I guess it is not OK with you that I also root for my wife's Alma Mater. Amazing!!!

No it was really the condescending shiite talk that got to me.  Why would you argue this point?  You know who you are and know what you said and you were caught so we know too.  "Rooting" for the Billikens cannot exist in a world where you are bad-mouthing then elsewhere........

[White Pelican]

Just now, Billiken Rich said:

No it was really the condescending shiite talk that got to me.  Why would you argue this point?  You know who you are and know what you said and you were caught so we know too.  "Rooting" for the Billikens cannot exist in a world where you are bad-mouthing then elsewhere........

Yeah, that's the part I remember. No one gives a fuok if he roots for his wife's alma mater. But when alma mater tried to poach our point guard, he showed his true colors on HER team's board.

[willie]

3 hours ago, thetorch said:

How many minutes should Hargrove be getting?

Who turned him into a 12 mpg player?  His whole career he's been an end of the rotation player.  He's only played big minutes in a handful of games where there were strange matchups, excessive foul trouble, or the roster just wasn't working.

I don't think he's earned any more minutes than he gets.  He's been here 4 years and every year he is passed up by someone else on the depth chart.  I'm not one to give more minutes to guys who can't shoot, dribble, pass, and have only risen to at best average defensively.  Hargrove hasn't really gone past just being a dunker.

I think most of your takes in that post were off but the Hargrove one was the worst.  

Disagree on TJ. I think his minutes are fairly productive. For whatever reason he gets the shortest of Ford’s hook. Brings energy others don’t possess. I would like to see him get 20+ minutes. Ford turned him into a 12mpg player. 

[Old guy]

This is the way Ford operates. Tonight he agreed in public that his efforts to shape this team into a winning machine have not worked out very well. That is correct, and it was the right thing to say. He is the person that is responsible for the team and how it performs.

[thetorch]

1 hour ago, willie said:

Disagree on TJ. I think his minutes are fairly productive. For whatever reason he gets the shortest of Ford’s hook. Brings energy others don’t possess. I would like to see him get 20+ minutes. Ford turned him into a 12mpg player. 

I just don't see it.  

Where does he play?  Who does he guard?  Thatch is a much better player and they fill the same role.  Hargrove in any other spot is hugely deficient.  Play him as a wing, he can't guard his man and he can't create offense.  Play him as a 4, he can't rebound.  Play him as a 5, he's 6'3 it just won't work.  He fills the same role that Thatch and Pickett do, but worse.  We play Thatch and Pickett together a decent amount.  There is no way you can play those 3 at the same time.

[willie]

7 hours ago, thetorch said:

I just don't see it.  

Where does he play?  Who does he guard?  Thatch is a much better player and they fill the same role.  Hargrove in any other spot is hugely deficient.  Play him as a wing, he can't guard his man and he can't create offense.  Play him as a 4, he can't rebound.  Play him as a 5, he's 6'3 it just won't work.  He fills the same role that Thatch and Pickett do, but worse.  We play Thatch and Pickett together a decent amount.  There is no way you can play those 3 at the same time.

I really disagree on the wing defense. Think he is the teams best at this. I do agree he has trouble rebounding from the 4. I am losing some if my enthusiasm for Pickett. Minutes to be had there. 

[laker119]

1 minute ago, willie said:

I really disagree on the wing defense. Think he is the teams best at this. I do agree he has trouble rebounding from the 4. I am losing some if my enthusiasm for Pickett. Minutes to be had there. 

I agree.  If Ford believes we are so un-athletic (based on his post game comments), he should play our most athletic player.  Not exactly rocket science

[billiken_roy]

8 hours ago, thetorch said:

I just don't see it.  

Where does he play?  Who does he guard?  Thatch is a much better player and they fill the same role.  Hargrove in any other spot is hugely deficient.  Play him as a wing, he can't guard his man and he can't create offense.  Play him as a 4, he can't rebound.  Play him as a 5, he's 6'3 it just won't work.  He fills the same role that Thatch and Pickett do, but worse.  We play Thatch and Pickett together a decent amount.  There is no way you can play those 3 at the same time.

hargrove is pretty much the same player he was as a freshman.    the fact he never put in the work to improve ball handling, defense, his shot, etc is not good.   but then again you have to ask why the coach hasnt worked on improving that aspect of his game either.   

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

16 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hargrove is pretty much the same player he was as a freshman.    the fact he never put in the work to improve ball handling, defense, his shot, etc is not good.   but then again you have to ask why the coach hasnt worked on improving that aspect of his game either.   

I'd have to imagine the same reason Hasahn never got better at free throws, lol.

[dlarry]

54 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hargrove is pretty much the same player he was as a freshman.    the fact he never put in the work to improve ball handling, defense, his shot, etc is not good.   but then again you have to ask why the coach hasnt worked on improving that aspect of his game either.   

I agree he hasn’t improved but I don’t think it’s from lack of work.

Not to long ago there was an article about how Hargrove is at the gym at all hours of the night. Over the summer there were reports he was putting up more shots than anyone.

Some guys, not matter how hard to they work, just can’t turn into stars.

 

I also think he was working on the wrong thing. Reports were he was working on his 3 point shot and it really improved. Big deal, he can hit 50 percent in an empty gym with nobody guarding him. He still can shoot with a guy in his face or off the dribble.

I wish he would have spent the summer working on his ball handling and attacking the rim. Work on pull up jumpers from 15 feet. He didn’t need to be a spot up 3 point shooter.

He needed to work on maximizing his athletic ability.

 

But from all accounts he is a hard worker and puts in the time. He just isn’t the player we were hoping he’d be.

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, laker119 said:

I agree.  If Ford believes we are so un-athletic (based on his post game comments), he should play our most athletic player.  Not exactly rocket science

Question:  how do you, or how does Ford, define 'most athletic player'?  Jumps the highest, fastest in the 20 yd dash or foot speed, bench press?  Able to hit a FG doesn't exactly fit into the definition of athletic. 

TJ likely has the best vertical.  Fastest?  Yuri?, Bench - Thatch or Okoro?

Last year Strickland was touted as being excessively athletic.  We all know how that story ended.

So who are our 5 most athletic players?  Thatch, Okoro, Hargrove, Collins and ?  Pickett #5?   No Perkins or Jimerson?  To me this seems like Rocket Science, without an obvious answer.

 

[billikenbill]

This season is dead to me.

[Schasz]

12 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

No it was really the condescending shiite talk that got to me.  Why would you argue this point?  You know who you are and know what you said and you were caught so we know too.  "Rooting" for the Billikens cannot exist in a world where you are bad-mouthing then elsewhere........

Sorry you feel that way haven't really noticed that from many other who post on here. The ones that did were dropped from my list that I follow here. Frankly, pretty certain I've been not only an Alum but a Bills fan loner than you. I just won't read your senseless Crapola anymore!!!

[dlarry]

7 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

This season is dead to me.

What sucks is that I am going to be just as pissed when they blow a late lead against Fordham as I am today. 
 

Being a Billiken fan is like living in Groundhog Day. 

[johnbj14]

38 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Question:  how do you, or how does Ford, define 'most athletic player'?  Jumps the highest, fastest in the 20 yd dash or foot speed, bench press?  Able to hit a FG doesn't exactly fit into the definition of athletic. 

TJ likely has the best vertical.  Fastest?  Yuri?, Bench - Thatch or Okoro?

Last year Strickland was touted as being excessively athletic.  We all know how that story ended.

So who are our 5 most athletic players?  Thatch, Okoro, Hargrove, Collins and ?  Pickett #5?   No Perkins or Jimerson?  To me this seems like Rocket Science, without an obvious answer.

 

Sincere Parker is the most athletic player on the roster. Blend of quickness and verticality that no one else has. He coincidentally is the player I’d love to see way more of as well. 

[billiken_roy]

7 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Sincere Parker is the most athletic player on the roster. Blend of quickness and verticality that no one else has. He coincidentally is the player I’d love to see way more of as well. 

i agree to a point, he is no doubt a scorer.   but he has "team" shortcomings that are hard to defend.   he is one of if not the worst on the ball defenders on the team.  how is that possible considering his athleticism?   and the fact he wont play the offensive system (no matter how poor that system looks to all of us now) gives ford the excuse to not play him.

i used to tell my kids when they played sports in grade school and high school, "dont give the coach an excuse to not play you".   it seems to me that is exactly what parker does with his offensive traits and his lack of defensive success.  

if he wants to play, he has to follow the direction of coach ford no matter how wrong he (or us) think that is since ford decides who is on the floor. 

[HoosierPal]

47 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

Sincere Parker is the most athletic player on the roster. Blend of quickness and verticality that no one else has. He coincidentally is the player I’d love to see way more of as well. 

Interesting, and I appreciate your comment.  For me Parker lacks brute strength that Thatch/Okoro/Pickett has.  

We have no metrics, but I would like to see who has a greater vertical that Hargrove.  After all, he qualified for the Illinois HS Track State Championships in the high jump, with little to no training in high jumping.

But this is an interesting topic.....who are the non-athletes Ford is speaking about.

[dlarry]

5 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting, and I appreciate your comment.  For me Parker lacks brute strength that Thatch/Okoro/Pickett has.  

We have no metrics, but I would like to see who has a greater vertical that Hargrove.  After all, he qualified for the Illinois HS Track State Championships in the high jump, with little to no training in high jumping.

But this is an interesting topic.....who are the non-athletes Ford is speaking about.

Perkins and Jimerson are two they come to mind.

[dennis_w]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

hargrove is pretty much the same player he was as a freshman.    the fact he never put in the work to improve ball handling, defense, his shot, etc is not good.   but then again you have to ask why the coach hasnt worked on improving that aspect of his game either.   

many time the player wont listen, goodwin didnt work on his shooting until he went pro, is saw goodwins shooting flaws 30 seconds after i watched him in a practice, if i saw a guarantee the coaches did, something is wrong with this team

[billiken_roy]

33 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Perkins and Jimerson are two they come to mind.

perkins can only be included in this list assuming he is still recovering after the knee surgery.   as to jimerson, if you watch the layup lines prior to the game when they put on their dunk show, jimerson has some very easy above the rim dunks.   personally i have no idea who on this team is considered a non athlete imo.   i still stand by this is the most athletic team from top to bottom since i started watching the billikens.

[billiken_roy]

35 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

many time the player wont listen, goodwin didnt work on his shooting until he went pro, is saw goodwins shooting flaws 30 seconds after i watched him in a practice, if i saw a guarantee the coaches did, something is wrong with this team

i know for a fact that jordan goodwin worked on his shooting A LOT while at SLU.   my belief is he was just re-inforcing bad habits though and there was no effort by any sort of coach or guru that had the ability to actually fix mechanical flaws until he got to the Wizards. 

i remember talking to Charles Love (Justin Love's father) after Justin graduated about how hard the phoenix suns worked to change his shooting mechanics and range.   I was amazed at that since Justin was one of the better shooters on the billikens and i never questioned that aspect of his game.   Charles said the same but remarked that justin was then shooting better and from further out then he had in his entire life.   

i suspect Jordan went through the same thing.   i.e. he got the actual hands on effective coaching to fix his shot.

[laker119]

4 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Question:  how do you, or how does Ford, define 'most athletic player'?  Jumps the highest, fastest in the 20 yd dash or foot speed, bench press?  Able to hit a FG doesn't exactly fit into the definition of athletic. 

TJ likely has the best vertical.  Fastest?  Yuri?, Bench - Thatch or Okoro?

Last year Strickland was touted as being excessively athletic.  We all know how that story ended.

So who are our 5 most athletic players?  Thatch, Okoro, Hargrove, Collins and ?  Pickett #5?   No Perkins or Jimerson?  To me this seems like Rocket Science, without an obvious answer.

 

He said in his presser that TJ is one of the most athletic guys they have.  The point I am trying to make is you (Travis) can’t complain about not having enough athleticism on the court if you don’t play your most athletic player (in his own eyes) substantive minutes.

[dennis_w]

6 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i know for a fact that jordan goodwin worked on his shooting A LOT while at SLU.   my belief is he was just re-inforcing bad habits though and there was no effort by any sort of coach or guru that had the ability to actually fix mechanical flaws until he got to the Wizards. 

i remember talking to Charles Love (Justin Love's father) after Justin graduated about how hard the phoenix suns worked to change his shooting mechanics and range.   I was amazed at that since Justin was one of the better shooters on the billikens and i never questioned that aspect of his game.   Charles said the same but remarked that justin was then shooting better and from further out then he had in his entire life.   

i suspect Jordan went through the same thing.   i.e. he got the actual hands on effective coaching to fix his shot.

I think I said it poorly, I didn’t mean he didn’t work, but he didn’t fix his flaws that were very apparent to an old junior high coach. Was that on Jordan or the coaching staff? I don’t know 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

8 hours ago, dlarry said:

What sucks is that I am going to be just as pissed when they blow a late lead against Fordham as I am today. 
 

Being a Billiken fan is like living in Groundhog Day. 

Except we never reach enlightenment, lol.