GDT: Senior Day vs VCU

[CBFan]

8 hours ago, DOC said:

The bench yesterday was out of control. When TJ and Ford went nose to nose earlier this year some of you said to ignore it as it was common. It wasn’t. Ford and TJ have rarely interacted since then and TJ has shown a disrespectful attitude several times on the bench to several different coaches. And it just wasn’t him Saturday. Okoro was really hot and at one point refused to join the huddle. Nesbitt and Hargrove were both agitated throughout.  Not to mention Perkins being very vocal. At one point PeeWee was involved. Tate had had enough and you could see him yelling at someone repeatedly to “shut up.”  I know this happens all the time, but I’ve been sitting behind the bench for a long time and I’ve never seen the disrespect this year, and it means changes are coming. 

I am sorry to hear this about the bench.

Hargroves family have been very privileged at Chaifetz with allowing Hargrove’s little brother to participate in the shoot around and walk on and off the court as he please.

Its been a fun thing to watch he interacts with all of the players and can hit 3 pointers and he is a little guy right now.

At the graduation ceremony after the game Hargrove was his old fun loving self he is a hoot to watch.

From what other posters have said that Hargrove’s father is a Ford critic on social media and that is not good for team harmony.

Because if TJ’s personality he is the wife and I’s favorite player.  TJ’s offensive game is why Thatch took his minutes so coach Ford made a good decision for the team not the popular decision on who starts.

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

30 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I am sorry to hear this about the bench.

Hargroves family have been very privileged at Chaifetz with allowing Hargrove’s little brother to participate in the shoot around and walk on and off the court as he please.

Its been a fun thing to watch he interacts with all of the players and can hit 3 pointers and he is a little guy right now.

At the graduation ceremony after the game Hargrove was his old fun loving self he is a hoot to watch.

From what other posters have said that Hargrove’s father is a Ford critic on social media and that is not good for team harmony.

Because if TJ’s personality he is the wife and I’s favorite player.  TJ’s offensive game is why Thatch took his minutes so coach Ford made a good decision for the team not the popular decision on who starts.

Agree, I think people are reading too much into the TJ situation, he's always the spark on the bench mafia, plus he's fun and energetic as a player. As far as I know, his teammates like him, too. As others have suggested, VCU may have been an off night and he may have been frustrated with himself, hence the episode on the bench.

[billiken_roy]

23 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Agree, I think people are reading too much into the TJ situation, he's always the spark on the bench mafia, plus he's fun and energetic as a player. As far as I know, his teammates like him, too. As others have suggested, VCU may have been an off night and he may have been frustrated with himself, hence the episode on the bench.

if you havent seen the difference in the hargrove demeanor this year compared to the previous two years, you arent paying attention.   

this year at the billiken night at busch stadium, i went up to hargrove shook his hand and told him i was so proud of his attitude on the bench, in the huddle, and on the floor.   he was always supportive and cheering for his teamates, etc.   right now i wouldnt even approach him he has become so sullen

is it justified?   maybe somewhat.   that is an awful lot of athleticism that isnt getting much time.   however, it is as though he just doesnt get it.   the mistakes he makes yet after 3 years is honestly not acceptable.   

is it all his fault?  well dont get me started on player development and coaching the players up.  

i now believe for hargrove's own sanity, he probably should look elsewhere to find a coach and program that will fit his own skills and style.   that hurts me to say as he is such an incredible athlete that has given us plenty of highlight reel dunks, steals, etc.   but now i worry about the team as that doesnt bode well for team chemistry.   it is bound to divide the team as those scenarios ultimately lead to picking sides.   and players, the coach always wins those polls if it comes to playing time.  

i always told my kids when they played sports in high school.   do not show negative attitude on the bench no matter how much that hurts.   always be the biggest fan of your teamates.   always support the coach.   it has long been my opinion that a coach has a hard time doling out the playing time.   by acting that way, you are only giving coach a reason to make a choice.   no matter how wrong that choice is.  

[TheChosenOne]

11 hours ago, DOC said:

At one point PeeWee was involved.

As in PeeWee Lendard? Could you expound on this one just a bit as well as Perkins being vocal?

[Taj79]

Yeah, DOC, please expand as best you can.

In the GDT threads, I can be an in the heat of many moments.  That's why I've decided to scale back there.  I can't imagine how it must be for Nesbitt, Hargrove, Okoro and Ford in these same trying times.  But I do know, and somewhat echo what roy said, that fi you give the coach a reason to further dislike you and your attitude, he will.  And there goes your playing time.  

I find it disheartening that here we are 31 games and 21 wins into the season and Nesbitt is what he still is.  As Majerus said, the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores and Nesbitt is there already.  Discounting the short time at Memphis, he has a 31 game season in the book.  Being out of control as he seemed Saturday is unacceptable; this is not Game One and Central Arkansas.  But we have seen what he can be in games versus St. Bonaventure and others.  Maybe the 9000 fans got him too pumped and the yellow unis of VCU amplified the adrenaline.  For TJ to still be not getting it as a third year sophomore, also unacceptable.  The key to beating Bonaventure when they go to that hybrid 2-3 matchup zone is getting the ball to the foul line and taking and making 15-foot jumpers.  This was Perkins' strong point.  Of the guys we currently have that seem to have the talent to do this, both Nesbitt and Hargrove need to be that man.  Thatch is always goign tothe rim and this will play right into Osunniyi's (long) arms.  

As Ford has said, we have yet to play a complete game.  Hoping we get to Friday and finally make it happen.  We will need it.  

[wgstl]

Okoro is a surprise for me.  We all KNEW Nesbitt plays with a lot of emotion, same with TJH. 

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I find it disheartening that here we are 31 games and 21 wins into the season and Nesbitt is what he still is.  As Majerus said, the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores and Nesbitt is there already.  Discounting the short time at Memphis, he has a 31 game season in the book. 

I very much recognize Nesbitt as a true freshman.  He was only in Memphis for less than 2 months. 

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

if you havent seen the difference in the hargrove demeanor this year compared to the previous two years, you arent paying attention.   

this year at the billiken night at busch stadium, i went up to hargrove shook his hand and told him i was so proud of his attitude on the bench, in the huddle, and on the floor.   he was always supportive and cheering for his teamates, etc.   right now i wouldnt even approach him he has become so sullen

is it justified?   maybe somewhat.   that is an awful lot of athleticism that isnt getting much time.   however, it is as though he just doesnt get it.   the mistakes he makes yet after 3 years is honestly not acceptable.   

is it all his fault?  well dont get me started on player development and coaching the players up.  

i now believe for hargrove's own sanity, he probably should look elsewhere to find a coach and program that will fit his own skills and style.   that hurts me to say as he is such an incredible athlete that has given us plenty of highlight reel dunks, steals, etc.   but now i worry about the team as that doesnt bode well for team chemistry.   it is bound to divide the team as those scenarios ultimately lead to picking sides.   and players, the coach always wins those polls if it comes to playing time.  

i always told my kids when they played sports in high school.   do not show negative attitude on the bench no matter how much that hurts.   always be the biggest fan of your teamates.   always support the coach.   it has long been my opinion that a coach has a hard time doling out the playing time.   by acting that way, you are only giving coach a reason to make a choice.   no matter how wrong that choice is.  

I'll disagree with ya there, I've interacted with him in person and online over the past few weeks and I haven't noticed much of a change outside of the game. In game? Of course, I've seen what y'all are describing, but leave it all on the court and all that. TJ is experiencing growth of some kind no matter what's happening. This year hasn't been easy for anyone, Ford lost someone close and he's shown to be a bit more easily perturbed than other seasons. We lost Javonte which clearly threw off the team chemistry at the beginning of the year. This team's had so much adversity thrown at them the past 2 years. I think I was probably less sullen a couple years ago, too. As far as personality goes, no, I don't think TJ has changed. On the court is another debate.

[juniorbill76]

When we win the A-10 tournament all this will be water under the bridge.

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

9 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

When we win the A-10 tournament all this will be water under the bridge.

Yep, agree. Nothing solves team tension faster than winning.

[DOC]

1 hour ago, TheChosenOne said:

As in PeeWee Lendard? Could you expound on this one just a bit as well as Perkins being vocal?

Sure. Not a big deal, but certainly odd. Pee Wee in the front row, leaning over the railing and waved Roby over a couple of times when he was sitting/dealing with Nesbit. Obviously, not privy to what he was saying, but strange he was involved at all. Perkins appeared to be playing peacemaker to start and it ended with him and Tate having a conversation that lasted throughout a timeout and Tate was not happy. 
Again, I get that this stuff happens on the bench more frequently than most people think. However, this year has seen more turmoil down there in my 15 years behind the bench than the rest of them, by far. 

[Taj79]

hmmm ... PeeWee eh?  

[slu72]

Too many chefs spoil the broth? Pee Wee, Perkins, TJ, JNez. Sounds like it’s time for Travis to hold a come to Jesus meeting. 
For what it’s worth the VCU game might have been Travis’ best coaching job this year, and it was because he recognized the importance of playing Jones and Yurimania together for so many minutes. Against VCU you need to minimize the TO’s to win and having your 2 best ball handlers and most experienced on the court was a good move. 

[WVBilliken]

TJ looked dang happy and enthusiastic in the video clip of the walk-on, Brandon Courtney, when he hit the 3 at the start of the game.  I think you are just trying to stir stuff up ,,,,, 

[DOC]

11 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

TJ looked dang happy and enthusiastic in the video clip of the walk-on, Brandon Courtney, when he hit the 3 at the start of the game.  I think you are just trying to stir stuff up ,,,,, 

There wasn’t one person in the building who wasn’t dang happy and enthusiastic when Courtney hit the 3. 

[CBFan]

50 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Too many chefs spoil the broth? Pee Wee, Perkins, TJ, JNez. Sounds like it’s time for Travis to hold a come to Jesus meeting. 
For what it’s worth the VCU game might have been Travis’ best coaching job this year, and it was because he recognized the importance of playing Jones and Yurimania together for so many minutes. Against VCU you need to minimize the TO’s to win and having your 2 best ball handlers and most experienced on the court was a good move. 

Spot on Jones 0 turnovers in 37 minutes.  I wanted to see more Jones this season and finally got my wish.

[billiken_roy]

44 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

TJ looked dang happy and enthusiastic in the video clip of the walk-on, Brandon Courtney, when he hit the 3 at the start of the game.  I think you are just trying to stir stuff up ,,,,, 

There was no doubt throughout the game hargrove was not on board with the game plan for his use.   

[cheeseman]

17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

There was no doubt throughout the game hargrove was not on board with the game plan for his use.   

Any player who loses their minutes to another player has only themselves to blame.

[dennis_w]

the season will be over shortly and soon afterwards we will know who wants to stay and who ford has plans for next year. as for tj, i love watching him play but other than 3p shooting he has not improved his game, no mid range, ball handling is weak, not a defensive force. he needs to improve some bb skills to see the floor

[HoosierPal]

Earl Austin Jr said this last year and I have posted it several times. 

It is not the job of the coach to make the players happy. It is the job of the players to make the coach happy. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

3 hours ago, Taj79 said:

  The key to beating Bonaventure when they go to that hybrid 2-3 matchup zone is getting the ball to the foul line and taking and making 15-foot jumpers.  This was Perkins' strong point.  Of the guys we currently have that seem to have the talent to do this, both Nesbitt and Hargrove need to be that man.  Thatch is always goign tothe rim and this will play right into Osunniyi's (long) arms.  

 

I don't see that either Nesbitt or Hargrove are even played there consistently.  I recall one time TJ was there.  But that is how you beat that zone, and Nesbitt certainly has the ability to do that.  

This is where Dwayne Evans was stationed against those A10 East Coast zones, and he repeatedly torched the opposition from that position.  What I do know is you don't beat a zone by having your 6'0" point guard dribbling right into the zone, where he gets swatted by a 6'10" Bonnie.  Adding, I also don't think you beat a matchup zone by running the pick and roll, but I invite those more expert to weigh in on that one.

It doesn't help to have your forward(s) confined to the corner, like a statue, as the 5th and final option.  

[almaman]

4 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Earl Austin Jr said this last year and I have posted it several times. 

It is not the job of the coach to make the players happy. It is the job of the players to make the coach happy. 

Speaking of listening the other day I had the thought that he would be a very good ref if he hasn't already done that.

[3star_recruit]

42 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I don't see that either Nesbitt or Hargrove are even played there consistently.  I recall one time TJ was there.  But that is how you beat that zone, and Nesbitt certainly has the ability to do that.  

This is where Dwayne Evans was stationed against those A10 East Coast zones, and he repeatedly torched the opposition from that position.  What I do know is you don't beat a zone by having your 6'0" point guard dribbling right into the zone, where he gets swatted by a 6'10" Bonnie.  Adding, I also don't think you beat a matchup zone by running the pick and roll, but I invite those more expert to weigh in on that one.

It doesn't help to have your forward(s) confined to the corner, like a statue, as the 5th and final option.  

I've seen many a 4 star recruit put up Nesbitt-type numbers or worse because of a fundamental flaw in their game.  When given the option to take a few dribbles and shoot a 15 footer or drive and get his shot blocked, Nesbitt chooses the latter 99% of the time.  If he develops any semblance of a mid-range game over the summer, this league is in trouble.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, cheeseman said:

Any player who loses their minutes to another player has only themselves to blame.

That wasn't the question to comment on.  It was about whether he did or did not have attitude about his PT and use for the game.   

 

I don't disagree with your comment at all. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

I've seen many a 4 star recruit put up Nesbitt-type numbers or worse because of a fundamental flaw in their game.  When given the option to take a few dribbles and shoot a 15 footer or drive and get his shot blocked, Nesbitt chooses the latter 99% of the time.  If he develops any semblance of a mid-range game over the summer, this league is in trouble.

Coach him up. Is he being coached to take that 15 footer? Is it practiced? It’s there against Schmidt’s Bona matchup zone.