GDT: Senior Day vs VCU

[Taj79]

Some musings from da' couch .........

Had the grandkids today so taped it and watched without knowing how it would end. But did say to the wife ... "oh crap, up by (21, 17, 12, 15) this is likely going to go the way it always does."  And it did.

Nesbitt was definitely out of control.  Did that deserve no minutes in the second half?  I would say no.  Hargrove had tewo dunks and two critical turnovers.  TJ needs to work on his ballhandling and passing.  I expect both he and Nesbitt to be better.  With Linssen in getting stitches, Ford had to play Okoro.  And he made it.  Ditto Thatch.  When we attacked the VCU press, it worked.  When we attacked, we got up by 21.  When we played slow down, we sputtered.  Where have we seen that before?  But we won so all is forgiven.

We seem to have a perchant for playing incredibly bad from ahead.  And I don't know why.  When we had to go toe to toe against Mason and Rhode Island and even St. Joes, we did very well.  We executed the offense in a timely manner and stayed even or ahead.  Blow outs against the dregs are non-starters.  But against the better teams in this league, we seem content to do the walk up and sacrifice time on the clock and tempo on the court.  VCU took all sorts of defensive gambles and hacked like hell because the second half whistles disappeared.  In hindsight, it was a brilliant strategy --- what did they have to lose?  Luckily, they ran out of time.  I said Williams was their only scorer.  Twenty-six out of 65 points for almost 40% of their total points.  Baldwin with all 12 only in the second half helped some to build the big lead.  But the live ball turnovers late in the second half made a game of it.  From 3:46 on, up by 11, Thatch got blocked, we had a turnover, Jimerson missed, Collins turnover, Jones missed a layup, and the lead was down to 1 before Collins made a layup to essentially seal the win.  A final free throw was relatively inconsequential.  I think Ford's taking the young guys out was really all he could do.  But the trend is maddening and I really hope it becomes a true learning experience.

The best thing about the win was pushing VCU over onto Dayton's side of the bracket in DC.  

The OOC slate was maddening not in losses to Auburn, Belmont and UAB but more so how we lost.  Ditto for games in conference against Bonaventure and Richmond.  But 21 nad 10 with 12 and 6 in conference, not bad considering the loss of Perkins on Day One.

[dlarry]

We have no idea why Nesbit was benched. 
Maybe he was hurting. 
Maybe it was because Ford thought he looked bad. 
Maybe it was because he wasn’t listening to instruction.                 Maybe he called Ford a c*#% s**%#%.  Maybe Ford like other match ups better.

It could have been anything. 
Not worth arguing over. 

I didn’t think he looked very good in his 7 minutes.

That said I don’t think he needed to sit the entire second half.

[Old guy]

We won this game. There may have been errors in the way it was played but we took the win. Why concentrate upon negatives?

[almaman]

2 hours ago, dlarry said:

We have no idea why Nesbit was benched. 
Maybe he was hurting. 
Maybe it was because Ford thought he looked bad. 
Maybe it was because he wasn’t listening to instruction.                 Maybe he called Ford a c*#% s**%#%.  Maybe Ford like other match ups better.

It could have been anything. 
Not worth arguing over. 

I didn’t think he looked very good in his 7 minutes.

That said I don’t think he needed to sit the entire second half.

avatar reminds me I thought Guy did a great job as he always does with the senior night MCing

[CBFan]

9 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Some musings from da' couch .........

Had the grandkids today so taped it and watched without knowing how it would end. But did say to the wife ... "oh crap, up by (21, 17, 12, 15) this is likely going to go the way it always does."  And it did.

Nesbitt was definitely out of control.  Did that deserve no minutes in the second half?  I would say no.  Hargrove had tewo dunks and two critical turnovers.  TJ needs to work on his ballhandling and passing.  I expect both he and Nesbitt to be better.  With Linssen in getting stitches, Ford had to play Okoro.  And he made it.  Ditto Thatch.  When we attacked the VCU press, it worked.  When we attacked, we got up by 21.  When we played slow down, we sputtered.  Where have we seen that before?  But we won so all is forgiven.

We seem to have a perchant for playing incredibly bad from ahead.  And I don't know why.  When we had to go toe to toe against Mason and Rhode Island and even St. Joes, we did very well.  We executed the offense in a timely manner and stayed even or ahead.  Blow outs against the dregs are non-starters.  But against the better teams in this league, we seem content to do the walk up and sacrifice time on the clock and tempo on the court.  VCU took all sorts of defensive gambles and hacked like hell because the second half whistles disappeared.  In hindsight, it was a brilliant strategy --- what did they have to lose?  Luckily, they ran out of time.  I said Williams was their only scorer.  Twenty-six out of 65 points for almost 40% of their total points.  Baldwin with all 12 only in the second half helped some to build the big lead.  But the live ball turnovers late in the second half made a game of it.  From 3:46 on, up by 11, Thatch got blocked, we had a turnover, Jimerson missed, Collins turnover, Jones missed a layup, and the lead was down to 1 before Collins made a layup to essentially seal the win.  A final free throw was relatively inconsequential.  I think Ford's taking the young guys out was really all he could do.  But the trend is maddening and I really hope it becomes a true learning experience.

The best thing about the win was pushing VCU over onto Dayton's side of the bracket in DC.  

The OOC slate was maddening not in losses to Auburn, Belmont and UAB but more so how we lost.  Ditto for games in conference against Bonaventure and Richmond.  But 21 nad 10 with 12 and 6 in conference, not bad considering the loss of Perkins on Day One.

Good to see the couch is back for another game review.

The wife and I like Hargrove but his ball handling is really bad and I think he makes some bad decisions on offense on his drives to the hoop.  Those bad decisions and turnovers come at the worst time.

That late 3 that took the lead down to 1 came after a shot clock reset that should not have been reset.  It was an air ball before that 3.  We were yelling at the refs about it the game should have been stopped and reviewed.  The refs did not seem to mind doing it when SLU had the momentum.  VCU should have been squeezed with time to take that shot.

All in all it was a fun season attending games at Chaifetz.  Some big games were won and lost but the games with the best teams at home were all exciting.  I sounded like coach Ford did talking to the fans after game yesterday after most of the games.

After the games recognitions to the seniors was another special moment the wife and I really love these young men.  We did are best to show them all our appreciation of them.

It was a good to hear the chants of 1 more year to Perkins and Guy Philips got involved.

Time to transition to lake life and watch March Madness on the weekends from da couch at the lake.

[Fraz]

13 hours ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

What gives you that idea?

He’s not a Ford fan.  I watched twice when he got pulled Travis looked him in the eye and tried giving him a high five as he was being subbed out.  TJ made no eye contact and barely stuck his hand out.

Many have noted the body language isn’t/hasn’t been there.  Sometimes the little things tell the big story.

Also, don’t understand why we’d knock posters for speculating on transfers while the season comes to a close.  We watch our team, form opinions, and share it with fellow fans.  That is why this forum exists.  Doesn’t mean I think TJ is a bad person or even a bad player, just that he may be better suited in a different situation.  We see it time and time again

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

20 minutes ago, Fraz said:

He’s not a Ford fan.  I watched twice when he got pulled Travis looked him in the eye and tried giving him a high five as he was being subbed out.  TJ made no eye contact and barely stuck his hand out.

Many have noted the body language isn’t/hasn’t been there.  Sometimes the little things tell the big story.

Also, don’t understand why we’d knock posters for speculating on transfers while the season comes to a close.  We watch our team, form opinions, and share it with fellow fans.  That is why this forum exists.  Doesn’t mean I think TJ is a bad person or even a bad player, just that he may be better suited in a different situation.  We see it time and time again

I agree with the board sentiment on not speculating on transfers, it just seems in bad taste. Just because he isn't a Ford fan doesn't mean he doesn't like playing here and wants to transfer. It's possible he loves everything about playing here with the exception of Ford. Ford could realize he's a valuable asset and contributer and TJ always gives his best effort. As long as it doesn't affect the games, they don't have to be friends or even have a relationship outside of player-coach. As long as he gives his best and as long as Ford utilizes him, I see no problem. 

[Gremio14]

9 hours ago, dlarry said:

We have no idea why Nesbit was benched. 
Maybe he was hurting. 
Maybe it was because Ford thought he looked bad. 
Maybe it was because he wasn’t listening to instruction.                 Maybe he called Ford a c*#% s**%#%.  Maybe Ford like other match ups better.

It could have been anything. 
Not worth arguing over. 

I didn’t think he looked very good in his 7 minutes.

That said I don’t think he needed to sit the entire second half.

This, to me, remains the most perplexing facet of yesterday’s game.  Nesbitt has screwed up before. He has never been benched for an entire half.  

He was continuously slapping himself on the forehead during the first part of the second half…a clear sign he was aggravated with himself.  He did not appear injured and did appear enthusiastic during TO huddles.

When Fred had to almost immediately re-enter the game with 4 fouls (very good move by TF as he realized only Fred could rescue us from the increasingly dire situation - which Fred did with a quick basket to stem the VCU tide) it was obvious something really weird was going on with Nesbitt.

Hopefully we hear the “rest of the story” today….

[zman]

Please stop the speculation about TJ and Jordan. Maybe they were not happy with their play. We were playing the team that leads the nation in forcing turnovers. It is easy to say take care of the ball on this board, it is another thing to do it on the court. Jones played 38 MINUTES, with 0 TURNOVERS.  You must play a big man, Yuri, and Jimerson. So, for the final spot Thatch got the majority of the minutes.

[slu72]

16 minutes ago, zman said:

Please stop the speculation about TJ and Jordan. Maybe they were not happy with their play. We were playing the team that leads the nation in forcing turnovers. It is easy to say take care of the ball on this board, it is another thing to do it on the court. Jones played 38 MINUTES, with 0 TURNOVERS.  You must play a big man, Yuri, and Jimerson. So, for the final spot Thatch got the majority of the minutes.

We built our lead with Jones and Yurimania playing a lot of minutes together. I can easily understand this tandem against a team like VCU. Take care of the ball! 

[3star_recruit]

33 minutes ago, zman said:

Please stop the speculation about TJ and Jordan. Maybe they were not happy with their play. We were playing the team that leads the nation in forcing turnovers. It is easy to say take care of the ball on this board, it is another thing to do it on the court. Jones played 38 MINUTES, with 0 TURNOVERS.  You must play a big man, Yuri, and Jimerson. So, for the final spot Thatch got the majority of the minutes.

Excellent stat.  VCU feasts on turnovers and the wiley senior on Senior Day had 4 assists, 3 steals and no turnovers.  This is a teachable moment for Nesbitt, who will one day be the face of the program:  stop making the game so hard, make the simple plays.  A small guard with significantly less talent and athletic ability helped us beat the best team in the conference by doing just that.

[Fraz]

Other observations: 

1) Video replays on the Jumbotrons are terrible.  Maybe there is a reason they don’t show the questionable calls/bang-bang plays, but they simply don’t.  There were 2 in particular - one where it looked like a goaltend on a potential and-1 for us and one on a blatant missed charge that Yuri drew (maybe in restricted area).  They show replays on Billiken baskets, so I know they have the capabilities.  Show what actually took place.  That was pretty maddening I thought.  Cardinals do the same thing.

2) Though we didn’t get much from Javonte himself, Ford all but confirmed he’ll be back next season imo. “He came in and proved he’s the best player on the team, now it’s time to prove he’s the best in America”.  Don’t do that by forgoing his last year.  My brother made an interesting point from a scholarship perspective.  I may be wrong but Perkins return puts us over the scholarship limit with all players in tact.  May be a game of chess they’re playing waiting for transfers out before announcing return.

3) We could not find pizza anywhere.  Maybe 2 stands in the whole place that sell it? Oh well.

4) Brought the wife to her first SLU game.  We are both Mizzou grads.  She made a comment “these are way better than Mizzou games”.  Music to my ears haha.

All in all - fun game and great turnout

[Taj79]

If we're not going to speculate on SLU transfers out (given today's immediate gratification sign known as the 'transfer portal') then we likely should not speculate on transfers in, right?  Love, Bradford, Kasubke, Reece, etc. have all been mentioned on here a few times.  But it is a MBM message board, right?  Open discussion.  

Video replays, especially in college, have always avoided the replay of controversial calls.  Or so it seems.  From what I saw on TV, the goaltending call was close, and I think it should have been reviewed.  The ball did hit the backboard and was redirected towards the goal so I saw goaltending.  I also thought the charge call was indeed a charge.  His feet were set and he was outside the restricted arc.  Same situation happened in the second half and Yuri got the call on Ward.  Beats the hell out of me how it's one thing one way and then another the next.  Problem with "showing what exactly took place" is that still doesn't seem to be the case.  All the ref reviews I've seen seem pretty cut and dried yet I get confimred maybe half the time.  So I must be blind, not them.  

While I am a big fan of "getting it right" I am not a big fan of this maddening trot to the scorers' desk to review every little bump and bruise.  What happened to Linssen?  He needed stitches.  I don't recall the play that happened on but how do you not get a review for blood?  Or did it happen and I just missed it?

[Fraz]

10 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

If we're not going to speculate on SLU transfers out (given today's immediate gratification sign known as the 'transfer portal') then we likely should not speculate on transfers in, right?  Love, Bradford, Kasubke, Reece, etc. have all been mentioned on here a few times.  But it is a MBM message board, right?  Open discussion.  

Video replays, especially in college, have always avoided the replay of controversial calls.  Or so it seems.  From what I saw on TV, the goaltending call was close, and I think it should have been reviewed.  The ball did hit the backboard and was redirected towards the goal so I saw goaltending.  I also thought the charge call was indeed a charge.  His feet were set and he was outside the restricted arc.  Same situation happened in the second half and Yuri got the call on Ward.  Beats the hell out of me how it's one thing one way and then another the next.  Problem with "showing what exactly took place" is that still doesn't seem to be the case.  All the ref reviews I've seen seem pretty cut and dried yet I get confimred maybe half the time.  So I must be blind, not them.  

While I am a big fan of "getting it right" I am not a big fan of this maddening trot to the scorers' desk to review every little bump and bruise.  What happened to Linssen?  He needed stitches.  I don't recall the play that happened on but how do you not get a review for blood?  Or did it happen and I just missed it?

Our assistants were on the refs about this.  Believe Marten got nicked as a VCU player came down with a rebound.  At least that’s what the ref was motioning - inadvertent play.  I was more concerned with that goaltend and Yuri charge play 

[Wendelprof]

Taj wrote "I also thought the charge call was indeed a charge.  His feet were set and he was outside the restricted arc.  Same situation happened in the second half and Yuri got the call on Ward.  Beats the hell out of me how it's one thing one way and then another the next."

I'm not a ref, but I'm a professor.  Sometimes I have to give partial credit on a point a student is making in an essay.  If I usually give 1 point for that analytical point, but the student really didn't fully make the point, I'm in a bind: do I give them a break and give them a full point, or do I give them a zero?  What I've come up with is first time I have the uncertain feeling, I give the student the benefit of the doubt and he or she gets the full point, but the next time I'm not sure the student made the point properly the student gets a zero. From there on I rotate back and forth like that on the assumption that it all evens out in the end.

I'm not a ref - never have been, and never want to be.  But if I were, and there was a bang-bang play (like there often is when there's a potential for offensive charging), if it clear who was in the wrong, I call it that way.  But if it isn't 100% clear, I do my best, call it way I think it probably should go, but then I remember which team got the benefit of the doubt and the next time it isn't clear, I call it the other way.  Do I look inconsistent to the average fan?  Sure.  But in the end, maybe that is better than always thinking I'm 100% right on every call.

Just a thought on why it's one thing one way and then another the next.

[kmbilliken]

6 minutes ago, Fraz said:

Our assistants were on the refs about this.  Believe Marten got nicked as a VCU player came down with a rebound.  At least that’s what the ref was motioning - inadvertent play.  I was more concerned with that goaltend and Yuri charge play 

Was Yuri outside the circle? 

[Fraz]

7 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

Was Yuri outside the circle? 

Sure as hell looked like it live.  Arena refuses to show replays on those however 

[3star_recruit]

3 minutes ago, Fraz said:

Sure as hell looked like it live.  Arena refuses to show replays on those however 

When I got home and saw the recording, it looked like Yuri's right foot was on the restricted line.  

[Taj79]

If the foot issue is resolved, and he was in the arc, then I stand corrected.  My view of the replay was that he was outside of it but contsact pushed him in.  But I've been wrong before.  

[Brighton]

I wonder what the next excuse will be for underachieving next season.

[AnkielBreakers]

40 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

If the foot issue is resolved, and he was in the arc, then I stand corrected.  My view of the replay was that he was outside of it but contsact pushed him in.  But I've been wrong before.  

I saw the play from behind Yuri in real time. Even if the ref was wrong, Yuri was so close that I felt he was inside the arc. I would say it is not an unreasonable call.

[Fraz]

11 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

I saw the play from behind Yuri in real time. Even if the ref was wrong, Yuri was so close that I felt he was inside the arc. I would say it is not an unreasonable call.

My point is wouldn’t you want to know 10 seconds after it happened via replay?  Here we are still debating almost 24 hours later without a clear answer.  Good call or bad call, just show me what happened.  We pay good money to come watch our Billikens and I just think it’s a negative fan experience

[Billikenbooster]

30 minutes ago, Brighton said:

I wonder what the next excuse will be for underachieving next season.

Give it up, dude. It’s getting old.

We just  had the most league victories since Ford took over.

[Brighton]

10 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

Give it up, dude. It’s getting old.

We just  had the most league victories since Ford took over.

And 1 NCAA Tournament appearance (which was done by a 6th seed).

If that isn’t underachieving, then I don’t know what is.

[Billikenbooster]

Just the opposite…it’s brilliance.

Every year there is steady improvement. Through the empty cupboard Ford inherited, the Situations, the early loss of a Player of the Year candidate….. He motivates, moulds the team through outstanding recruitment and tweaking of the roster (eg starting FT which matched the beginning of some of the best basketball we’ve seen in years).

Are there things I’d like to see cleaned up, yeah. But this is a team, a coach we can all get behind and support. Coach’s speech after the game summed it up fine. 
Good job, SLU.

Good job Billikens!

Now go out and kick some A10 butt.