GDT: @ Richmond

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, CenHudDude said:

Who would your plan B go to player be B’Roy?

first off i would have been planning a "plan B" long before perkins got hurt.   so i would have been working with and refining the talents and mindset of "plan B" all summer long and continued with it when the school year and practice started.   

why?  even if perkins never gets a season ending injury, what if he got covid?   what if he had to attend a funeral of a family member?   what if he got in foul trouble and fouled out early in the second half?   there are many many reasons to have another player(s) ready to step in and be the man.  

imo the most potential of any player is nesbitt.   right now he is somewhat of a wild mustang.   but we have seen glimpses of what he can do.    it is up to the coach to harness that and refine that and bring him up to a level that makes him the player he can be.  

now that all said, i believe ford wrongly chose yuri as his goto guy.   i think yuri is an extremely talented point guard.   he truly likely will leave slu as the best point guard in program history.    and yes he has had moments where  he successfully did close out games.   but he is physically limited by his size and his skills outside of great passer and ball handler are not the god given talent that nesbitt possesses imo.  i.e. imo yuri was not the right choice to take over the goto role.  

again that's on ford.   

[HoosierPal]

65.2% FG 1st half.  26.9% FG 2nd half.  8 assists first half.

40% 3FG 1st half.  0% 3FG 2nd half.  1 assist second half.

[slu72]

Still waiting for Gibby to hit a critical clutch shot, but he continues to disappoint. 

[dlarry]

14 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

first off i would have been planning a "plan B" long before perkins got hurt.   so i would have been working with and refining the talents and mindset of "plan B" all summer long and continued with it when the school year and practice started.   

why?  even if perkins never gets a season ending injury, what if he got covid?   what if he had to attend a funeral of a family member?   what if he got in foul trouble and fouled out early in the second half?   there are many many reasons to have another player(s) ready to step in and be the man.  

imo the most potential of any player is nesbitt.   right now he is somewhat of a wild mustang.   but we have seen glimpses of what he can do.    it is up to the coach to harness that and refine that and bring him up to a level that makes him the player he can be.  

now that all said, i believe ford wrongly chose yuri as his goto guy.   i think yuri is an extremely talented point guard.   he truly likely will leave slu as the best point guard in program history.    and yes he has had moments where  he successfully did close out games.   but he is physically limited by his size and his skills outside of great passer and ball handler are not the god given talent that nesbitt possesses imo.  i.e. imo yuri was not the right choice to take over the goto role.  

again that's on ford.   

I wonder if other coaches/teams do this.

Does Ohio State spend 3/4ths of the preseason working on an offense to run through EJ Liddell then send him to the sidelines to watch as they work on a “in case EJ gets hurt offense?” 
 

I honestly don’t know. 

It could be that coaches are such perfectionists that they don’t want to work on another offense because the original one isn’t perfect. 

[glazedandconfused]

1 minute ago, dlarry said:

I wonder if other coaches/teams do this.

Does Ohio State spend 3/4ths of the preseason working on an offense to run through EJ Liddell then send him to the sidelines to watch as they work on a “in case EJ gets hurt offense?” 
 

I honestly don’t know. 

It could be that coaches are such perfectionists that they don’t want to work on another offense because the original one isn’t perfect. 

It wouldn’t be just a Perkins gets hurt situation. It could be a Perkins fouled out/Perkins is being denied ball/matched up against a lock down defender

[dlarry]

2 minutes ago, glazedandconfused said:

It wouldn’t be just a Perkins gets hurt situation. It could be a Perkins fouled out/Perkins is being denied ball/matched up against a lock down defender

I think that would lead to more of a plug and play offense.

Put a different guy in his spot and run the same offense or make option number two in that offense option number 1.
But the Bills needed a completely different offense for the entire year.

[glazedandconfused]

Just now, dlarry said:

I think that would lead to more of a plug and play offense.

Put a different guy in his spot and run the same offense. 
But the Bills needed a completely different offense for the entire year.

Yea i agree there’s no offensive sophistication this year (or any year since 2013-2014)

Our metrics are ok offensively but those have been inflated by destroying bad teams 

[TheA_Bomb]

12 hours ago, BillsBeliever!!! said:

I still believe that last year’s team would’ve stayed in the top 25 and made the tournament had we not been crushed by COVID

But they didn't.  Can't hang that coulda been a contender banner.  No doubt SLU has been dealt a bad hand on a few occasions.  Covid was a challenge everyone had to overcome, SLU didn't. 

I'm hoping they run off 4 wins in DC and get the autobid make the tourney and put on that slipper.  But I doubt it, the must win game winning % is really low.

If we're saying the same things this time next year with Perkins back, then Coach needs to be shown the door.  I almost wish the timing was slightly different as Crean is going to be available this year and Porter maybe in a few if he doesn't turn it around.  Both are top of my list as realistic hires that I think would succeed at SLU.  Like Shaka VCU-UT-MARQ trajectory.

[billiken_roy]

56 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I wonder if other coaches/teams do this.

Does Ohio State spend 3/4ths of the preseason working on an offense to run through EJ Liddell then send him to the sidelines to watch as they work on a “in case EJ gets hurt offense?” 
 

I honestly don’t know. 

It could be that coaches are such perfectionists that they don’t want to work on another offense because the original one isn’t perfect. 

the improvement of a single player comes during non team practice time.    (think bess shooting by himself at 5 am for two years.)   i can tell you that as a former booster of the Belleville West program, EJ Liddell is one of the hardest working players i have ever seen.   and many times it was with a coach being there with him as he made himself better on his off time.   I would bet he was always in close contact with his ohio state coaches in the off season doing all he could to take over the leadership of the team when his time came.   

[billiken_roy]

56 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I think that would lead to more of a plug and play offense.

Put a different guy in his spot and run the same offense or make option number two in that offense option number 1.
But the Bills needed a completely different offense for the entire year.

this wouldnt hurt my feelings.   but honestly, just a different mindset is enough.   i get so frustrated when we are walking the ball down the floor giving our opponent time to set up their defense.   i get so frustrated watching the shot clock piss away while we do the hand off shuffle nonsense out by the halfline until the shot clock gets to 12.   at that point yuri has time to try one move and a pass or try to put up a shot in the forrest.  

what's with lately yuri literally dribbling in circles around the lane 3-4 times and then going back out to the top to rush an opportunity.    

frustrating.   

[TheA_Bomb]

What system are we running?  Motion offense right?  Does it seem like GJ is the only 1 in motion to anyone else?  Seems that way to me.

We play tough but not always smart.  Play M2M defense and we switch on screens our undersized PGs end up in a mismatch.  The rest of the players are tweeners and can switch without giving up too much size.  The zone is ok but the help defense recognition is often slow and gives up points.

 

I just don't see a cohesive game plan and by this point in the season the team should be adapted to the loss of Perkins.  I don't see improvement in TJ or JNez.  Okoro has improved.  It's upper middle results and we don't beat good teams even half the time.

[dlarry]

33 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

the improvement of a single player comes during non team practice time.    (think bess shooting by himself at 5 am for two years.)   i can tell you that as a former booster of the Belleville West program, EJ Liddell is one of the hardest working players i have ever seen.   and many times it was with a coach being there with him as he made himself better on his off time.   I would bet he was always in close contact with his ohio state coaches in the off season doing all he could to take over the leadership of the team when his time came.   

I’m not talking about hard work and improvement I’m talking about running an offense.

Do teams practice an offense and have a plan B ready in case the first option in that offense is lost to injury. 
OSU has a offense built around Liddel. My question is did they have an offense ready in case he was lost to a season ending. 

[billiken_roy]

sorry i am not a fan of patterned offenses.   i am all about motion offenses i am ok with the dribble drive.    all of those depend on the individual players own talents and developing such.   the most that ford can do to make those better is pace, spacing, and prioritizing who gets the opportunities.   sure you might have some individual plays like back doors, pick and rolls, etc.   but that would be for the players to decide who, when and where to run such.

so i am back to individual improvement and coaches helping the players get better at such.   

btw, we survive after all the time wasting b.s. on dribble drive and motion offense.   

[Cowboy II]

2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

But they didn't.  Can't hang that coulda been a contender banner.  No doubt SLU has been dealt a bad hand on a few occasions.  Covid was a challenge everyone had to overcome, SLU didn't. 

I'm hoping they run off 4 wins in DC and get the autobid make the tourney and put on that slipper.  But I doubt it, the must win game winning % is really low.

If we're saying the same things this time next year with Perkins back, then Coach needs to be shown the door.  I almost wish the timing was slightly different as Crean is going to be available this year and Porter maybe in a few if he doesn't turn it around.  Both are top of my list as realistic hires that I think would succeed at SLU.  Like Shaka VCU-UT-MARQ trajectory.

-wow, I would not feel good about any of the names you mention as a SLU coach

[TheA_Bomb]

1 hour ago, Cowboy II said:

-wow, I would not feel good about any of the names you mention as a SLU coach

So you have no interest in coaches that took similar size school teams to the final 4?  Some coaches are the right fit for a type of program.   That's my thought with Crean and Moser.  They both did well at private Catholic schools in the Midwest. Crean did have 3x Sweet 16 appearances with IU which isn't good enough for them but we'd be ecstatic with a Sweet 16. Crean isn't doing well at a UGA (not a basketball school) in the SEC and Porter is still TBD in the toughest conference this season.

Maybe you prefer an up and comer or an assistant from a winning program, maybe a JUCO/lower level winning coach?  That's the profile for SLU HC openings. Brad Stephens isn't walking through that foor. Retread, up and comer from smaller program, JUCO/DII+ promotion, or hot assistant.  I'd put money on a guy that did it before at a school like SLU.

[Cowboy II]

16 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

So you have no interest in coaches that took similar size school teams to the final 4?  Some coaches are the right fit for a type of program.   That's my thought with Crean and Moser.  They both did well at private Catholic schools in the Midwest. Crean did have 3x Sweet 16 appearances with IU which isn't good enough for them but we'd be ecstatic with a Sweet 16. Crean isn't doing well at a UGA (not a basketball school) in the SEC and Porter is still TBD in the toughest conference this season.

Maybe you prefer an up and comer or an assistant from a winning program, maybe a JUCO/lower level winning coach?  That's the profile for SLU HC openings. Brad Stephens isn't walking through that foor. Retread, up and comer from smaller program, JUCO/DII+ promotion, or hot assistant.  I'd put money on a guy that did it before at a school like SLU.

-my bad, I read Porter as Counzo Martin, Porter Moser I would take, Crean still not so much and my view on Shaka is he took one great team to the Final Four and what since? 

 

 

[NH]

34 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

So you have no interest in coaches that took similar size school teams to the final 4?  Some coaches are the right fit for a type of program.   That's my thought with Crean and Moser.  They both did well at private Catholic schools in the Midwest. Crean did have 3x Sweet 16 appearances with IU which isn't good enough for them but we'd be ecstatic with a Sweet 16. Crean isn't doing well at a UGA (not a basketball school) in the SEC and Porter is still TBD in the toughest conference this season.

Maybe you prefer an up and comer or an assistant from a winning program, maybe a JUCO/lower level winning coach?  That's the profile for SLU HC openings. Brad Stephens isn't walking through that foor. Retread, up and comer from smaller program, JUCO/DII+ promotion, or hot assistant.  I'd put money on a guy that did it before at a school like SLU.

I don't think our current coach is going anywhere for a while but I do find it to be an interesting topic. I would be totally out on Crean. It's now been six years since he coached a winning basketball team. I know he did well with Marquette, but the landscape of college ball has completely changed since then.

Porter was a marquee hire for OU. There's no reason to assume he won't be at Oklahoma for the foreseeable future.

Two guys who fit the profile you're describing are Sean Miller and Chris Mack, both of whom I think would do well at a school like SLU. 

[TheA_Bomb]

2 hours ago, Cowboy II said:

-my bad, I read Porter as Counzo Martin, Porter Moser I would take, Crean still not so much and my view on Shaka is he took one great team to the Final Four and what since? 

 

 

I'm not advocating hiring Shaka he's just started at Marquette and doing alright in his first year.   We have at least 1 more year of Ford.  I'm just speculating that we'll want him gone by end of next season.   I'm not optimistic that he's going to get it done even with a full roster.

 

Probably not constructive at this point.  

[cheeseman]

29 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

I'm not advocating hiring Shaka he's just started at Marquette and doing alright in his first year.   We have at least 1 more year of Ford.  I'm just speculating that we'll want him gone by end of next season.   I'm not optimistic that he's going to get it done even with a full roster.

 

Probably not constructive at this point.  

Do you really think boosters will pony up 2 years of salary which what I think he will have left.  I doubt it.  Look what it took to get rid of Crews and he was cheap for today's dollars.

[CenHudDude]

9 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

first off i would have been planning a "plan B" long before perkins got hurt.   so i would have been working with and refining the talents and mindset of "plan B" all summer long and continued with it when the school year and practice started.   

why?  even if perkins never gets a season ending injury, what if he got covid?   what if he had to attend a funeral of a family member?   what if he got in foul trouble and fouled out early in the second half?   there are many many reasons to have another player(s) ready to step in and be the man.  

imo the most potential of any player is nesbitt.   right now he is somewhat of a wild mustang.   but we have seen glimpses of what he can do.    it is up to the coach to harness that and refine that and bring him up to a level that makes him the player he can be.  

now that all said, i believe ford wrongly chose yuri as his goto guy.   i think yuri is an extremely talented point guard.   he truly likely will leave slu as the best point guard in program history.    and yes he has had moments where  he successfully did close out games.   but he is physically limited by his size and his skills outside of great passer and ball handler are not the god given talent that nesbitt possesses imo.  i.e. imo yuri was not the right choice to take over the goto role.  

again that's on ford.   

No question that Nesbitt has great potential.  In the coming years he will certainly be a go to guy.  Right now he is a raw Freshman.  As Hall of Fame Coach Rick Majerus used to say, “ The best thing about Freshmen is that they become Sophomores”.

[slu72]

The most efficient O we ran was with Rick’s boys. It was done thru positioning, ie spacing, and individuals setting on ball screens. It was a ballet. One thing he had that we don’t is a big who could hit from the perimeter, Ellis and Loe. They stretched the D and opened up the floor for guys like Evans and Jett. We need a Brakovitch type. 

[TheA_Bomb]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Do you really think boosters will pony up 2 years of salary which what I think he will have left.  I doubt it.  Look what it took to get rid of Crews and he was cheap for today's dollars.

Nah like I said not constructive at this point.  But stranger things have happened. 

[Old guy]

22 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Nah like I said not constructive at this point.  But stranger things have happened. 

You are talking about chance and its unpredictability, and you are correct. Logic and reason do not determine what may or may not happen in the future, even the relatively near future.

[TheA_Bomb]

4 hours ago, Old guy said:

You are talking about chance and its unpredictability, and you are correct. Logic and reason do not determine what may or may not happen in the future, even the relatively near future.

Time is a flat circle. Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again.

[Old guy]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:42 AM, TheA_Bomb said:

Time is a flat circle. Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again.

There is a fair amount of truth to this. It is not easy to break out of these kinds of circles once you are stuck in them.