Best Billikens Point Guard

[billiken_roy]

the answer has been and still is "H".

[Bills By 40]

15 hours ago, NoCoBillsFan said:

The real question is who will you put on your profile picture if he does in fact leave?

The shareholders are conducting meetings to brainstorm exactly this. It's a big decision to rebrand the entire company but it looks like it must be done!! : ( 

[Bills By 40]

29 minutes ago, 2010andBeyond said:

Yuri is very good, but imo Mitchell was better and I never considered Kwamain one of the best in the nation so I have a hard time coming to that conclusion with Yuri. Yuri is a unique player and may be one of the best passers in the nation but I wouldn’t consider him one of the best couple of  PGs

18 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Good points and besides where has Yuri taken us - not even close to KM.  Now that being said, we are in trouble now that he left unless Ford pulls a rabbit out of his hat.  

Kwamain was my favorite Billiken of all time, until the day I saw Yuri play. I suspected he'd be special and if he had another year (specifically this upcoming one) by god this wouldn't even be a conversation anymore - except maybe for some of you old heads that like to die by anything nostalgic. 

He's the best passer in the country, and that was proven last year. Not only with his assists total or average but with the level of difficulty in those passes. 19 in one game speaks volumes, and he had 14 points that game too. He averaged over 11 points per game to go with >4 rebounds and 1.9 steals, too, which speaks to his great defense. 

KM had different circumstances. Better surrounding cast than Yuri had last year. Better coach (by a lot, and that's not a slight at Ford). No global pandemic wiping out 90% of the team and like half the season. Best years were when he was 22 and 23 years old...aka Yuri's next two years. 

[slufanskip]

11 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

Kwamain was my favorite Billiken of all time, until the day I saw Yuri play. I suspected he'd be special and if he had another year (specifically this upcoming one) by god this wouldn't even be a conversation anymore - except maybe for some of you old heads that like to die by anything nostalgic. 

He's the best passer in the country, and that was proven last year. Not only with his assists total or average but with the level of difficulty in those passes. 19 in one game speaks volumes, and he had 14 points that game too. He averaged over 11 points per game to go with >4 rebounds and 1.9 steals, too, which speaks to his great defense. 

KM had different circumstances. Better surrounding cast than Yuri had last year. Better coach (by a lot, and that's not a slight at Ford). No global pandemic wiping out 90% of the team and like half the season. Best years were when he was 22 and 23 years old...aka Yuri's next two years. 

Kwamain was a 2 guard or could be called a combo. He never averaged 4 assists per game and had a career asst/to ratio under 1.5  He also never had a season with more steals than Yuri had last year. 
 

it’s really not even a discussion, the needle is pegged in Yuri!s favor. It’s not close

[cheeseman]

20 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

Kwamain was my favorite Billiken of all time, until the day I saw Yuri play. I suspected he'd be special and if he had another year (specifically this upcoming one) by god this wouldn't even be a conversation anymore - except maybe for some of you old heads that like to die by anything nostalgic. 

He's the best passer in the country, and that was proven last year. Not only with his assists total or average but with the level of difficulty in those passes. 19 in one game speaks volumes, and he had 14 points that game too. He averaged over 11 points per game to go with >4 rebounds and 1.9 steals, too, which speaks to his great defense. 

KM had different circumstances. Better surrounding cast than Yuri had last year. Better coach (by a lot, and that's not a slight at Ford). No global pandemic wiping out 90% of the team and like half the season. Best years were when he was 22 and 23 years old...aka Yuri's next two years. 

Bottom line is important.  I am not so sure that KM's supporting cast was all that much better.  I agree coaching was better.

[3star_recruit]

32 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Bottom line is important.  I am not so sure that KM's supporting cast was all that much better.  I agree coaching was better.

Mitchell had McCall and Jett to help out with playmaking responsibilities.  Yuri had Deandre Jones.  That's why his usage rate was through the roof.

The only player ahead of Yuri in the point guard discussion is H.  Next year the baton would have been passed. Yuri would have been on the preseason Wooden Award list, he would have become the all-time A10 assists leader and we would have landed two Billikens on the conference first team.  The fact that money wiped all that away just breaks your heart. 

[Bills By 40]

8 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Mitchell had McCall and Jett to help out with a playmaking responsibilities.  Yuri had DeAndre Jones.  That's why his usage rate was through the roof.

The only player ahead of Yuri in the point guard discussion is H.  Next year the baton would have been passed. Yuri would have been on the preseason Wooden Award list, he would have become the all-time A10 assists leader and we would have landed two Billikens on the conference first team.  The fact that money wiped all the that away just breaks your heart. 

Let's not forget that the man is on pace to break the all-time NCAA assists record...that shouldn't be taken lightly. 

[Bills By 40]

28 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Bottom line is important.  I am not so sure that KM's supporting cast was all that much better.  I agree coaching was better.

If you compare KM's teams to Yuri's 2020-2021 squad, I give the nod to Yuri's squad. But that was taken away by Covid. 

If you compare either of Yuri's other teams I give the nod to KM's teams. JJ, McCall, Loe, Evans, Conklin, Ellis, guys like Cassity or Barnett who were killer role players, Cory Remekun. Specifically the 2011-2012 team was much better. 2020-2021 squad could've been the best team in recent memory if the whole team hadn't been hit by a train. 

[BLIKNS]

I wouldn't put him as the best, but I always was a big fan of Charles Newberry, think he was under appreciated on those NIT teams

[pakapablo]

1 hour ago, BLIKNS said:

I wouldn't put him as the best, but I always was a big fan of Charles Newberry, think he was under appreciated on those NIT teams

Don't know about best but Charles Newberry is my all time favorite. He was fun to watch. There was something cool (not temperature) about his style of play. 

[dlarry]

I’d like to change my vote….again. 

[Bills By 40]

This isn't a question anymore. There might be some great Billikens at the top but they're all behind Yuri "Bad Motherf**ker" Collins. 

[Old guy]

Let's look at it in a different way. How many Billiken PGs have ever made it to a spot in the NBA. Jordan Goodwin is about to achieve this level. Anyone else.

Yuri still has some time to go before it can be determined if he makes it to the NBA or not.

[Bills By 40]

30 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Let's look at it in a different way. How many Billiken PGs have ever made it to a spot in the NBA. Jordan Goodwin is about to achieve this level. Anyone else.

Yuri still has some time to go before it can be determined if he makes it to the NBA or not.

Let's look at it in a different way - kiss my @$$.  

[AnkielBreakers]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Let's look at it in a different way. How many Billiken PGs have ever made it to a spot in the NBA. Jordan Goodwin is about to achieve this level. Anyone else.

Yuri still has some time to go before it can be determined if he makes it to the NBA or not.

Let’s look at it a different way, we cannot see backward from the end of time, so we cannot know if he is the best.

[dennis_w]

1 hour ago, Bills By 40 said:

Let's look at it in a different way - kiss my @$$.  

as much as i like goodwin, he made the nba because of improvements after he left, he was a very mediocre shooter to the detriment of the billikens at time. anyway are we discussing billiken point guards or former billikens in the nba? goodwins assets as a billiken was not as a point guard imo

[dlarry]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Let's look at it in a different way. How many Billiken PGs have ever made it to a spot in the NBA. Jordan Goodwin is about to achieve this level. Anyone else.

Yuri still has some time to go before it can be determined if he makes it to the NBA or not.

Why would we look at their NBA career when judging what they did in college?

Christian Laettner is the best college player Duke has ever had but his pro career looks like crap compared to Jayson Tatum.

 

They are two different games. 
Collins making or not making the NBA has zero to do with his place as a Billiken great.

[Old guy]

On the contrary, people that play sports in college do not visualize their years in college other than as a step in their career. The ones that succeed go to the NBA, or the NFL or other professional leagues. Besides from a college's point of view having an alum of their program with an active successful career in the NBA can be of great importance to the program. I see no reason not to extend the term Billiken to those that have made it into the NBA.

[dlarry]

34 minutes ago, Old guy said:

On the contrary, people that play sports in college do not visualize their years in college other than as a step in their career. The ones that succeed go to the NBA, or the NFL or other professional leagues. Besides from a college's point of view having an alum of their program with an active successful career in the NBA can be of great importance to the program. I see no reason not to extend the term Billiken to those that have made it into the NBA.

[slufanskip]

54 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I didn’t know that all players in college simply view their college careers as a steppingstone to a pro career. We’ve had a load of players who’s entire careers were wasted. Kinda sad

[Billikenbooster]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:20 AM, pakapablo said:

Don't know about best but Charles Newberry is my all time favorite. He was fun to watch. There was something cool (not temperature) about his style of play. 

Out of reactions, sorry. Newberry was so cool and unemotional about his play. On my gavorite all-time Billiken teams

[Old guy]

54 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I didn’t know that all players in college simply view their college careers as a steppingstone to a pro career. We’ve had a load of players who’s entire careers were wasted. Kinda sad

And a lot of lawyers graduate each year that wind up becoming tennis pros, or horticulturists. Life does not work as people imagine it will, people go in different directions when something does not work out. Kind of sad indeed c'est la vie.

[Taj79]

I'd still give it to H who could shoot.  Yuri has some improvement to be had in that area but he is gaining.  Also H got to three NCAA games.  Yuri not yet.

[almaman]

If Mr Collins stays next year he needs to  average  about 7 1/2 rebounds a game to become the all time D-1  career assist leader. think he's 487 away from the needed 1077. We can watch him climb this list when he's back from this tournament.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/ast-player-career.html

[willie]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

I'd still give it to H who could shoot.  Yuri has some improvement to be had in that area but he is gaining.  Also H got to three NCAA games.  Yuri not yet.

I don’t get the un love for Yuri. I agree with Travis “Best Point Guard in the country” . He obviously proved last night that he can score. Only deficiency I see is he gets posted up by taller guards. Best true point guard in my long Billiken history by a mile. I think the board is guilty of being nostalgic.