Cowboy II Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 -it seems roundly accepted that Coach Grawer saved D1 basketbal at SLU, got us to two NIT finals, couldn't quite get over the X hump -I don't know the proper way but certainly wish/hope The U bestows some sort of honor on him while he is around to enjoy it, don't wait until it is too late -not meaning to take anything away from Coach Ford Stuen, but if he gets a banner in the rafters I would not mind seeing a similar honor for Coach Grawer, but not sure that is the way to do it, could be -Coach Grawer is on with Frank every once in a while and it is good radio and I know of no health issues -just my take Schasz, AGB91, VeniceMenace and 4 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMan Alum Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I agree. He is 2nd on the all-time for wins, plus he did rescue the program. He did fall short of taking the program to the next level, but except for a few instances the program is about the same level as when Coach Grawer ran the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 the problem was the old midwestern cities conference got zero respect from the ncaa. we were a one bid conference forever. we should have been given a spot for the douglas, gray bonner years. yes we were the second best team in the conference to xu, but those billiken teams were very deserving imo. almaman, BIG BILL FAN, HenryB and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bird Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: the problem was the old midwestern cities conference got zero respect from the ncaa. we were a one bid conference forever. we should have been given a spot for the douglas, gray bonner years. yes we were the second best team in the conference to xu, but those billiken teams were very deserving imo. For sure. and the proof is making the NIT final 2 consecutive years, beating many good teams at their house to get to the final 4 at MSG. We know from last year that winning multiple games in the NIT is difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I believe this program is now at a higher level than the old MCC days. The talent level top to bottom is higher. mhg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGB91 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Is Grawer in the Billikens Hall of Fame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Grawer did a phenomenal job with what he had to work with, if orlando stewart and melvin robinson had not gone off the rails and ryan grant's injury that first year in great midwest would have been a lot different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Lax Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Grawer also had a great kids basketball camp with Shimbo (Assistant Coach). That alone should get him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said: Grawer also had a great kids basketball camp with Shimbo (Assistant Coach). That alone should get him in. my son attended several grawer camps, always had a great time SLU_Lax likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gister Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I thought he was honored at a game quite a few years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 51 minutes ago, AGB91 said: Is Grawer in the Billikens Hall of Fame? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 And think... He did all of this recruiting out of West Pine Gym. No shiny Chaifetz Arena. No $1 million locker rooms. We owe a lot to Rich Grawer. AGB91, MusicCityBilliken, drkelsey55 and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 3 hours ago, gister said: I thought he was honored at a game quite a few years ago. -might have been, is there a place in the building that commemorates this? 34 minutes ago, Adman said: And think... He did all of this recruiting out of West Pine Gym. No shiny Chaifetz Arena. No $1 million locker rooms. We owe a lot to Rich Grawer. -yep, that's why I would like to see something done drkelsey55 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Adman said: And think... He did all of this recruiting out of West Pine Gym. No shiny Chaifetz Arena. No $1 million locker rooms. We owe a lot to Rich Grawer. I wish I could like this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Without grower Billikens are d-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Area Billiken Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Rich Grawer deserves to be honored. He is the Savior of Billiken Basketball as we know it, our Moses. He led the Billikens out of the Dark Ages, out of the wilderness, but was not allowed to enter the Promised Land (of the NCAA Tournament) himself. He had teams on the threshold of the NCAA, coached 2 NIT runner-ups and 3 NIT teams. SLU_Lax likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 5 hours ago, gister said: I thought he was honored at a game quite a few years ago. He was honored but not sure there is anything permanent commemorating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniceMenace Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said: Rich Grawer deserves to be honored. He is the Savior of Billiken Basketball as we know it, our Moses. He led the Billikens out of the Dark Ages, out of the wilderness, but was not allowed to enter the Promised Land (of the NCAA Tournament) himself. He had teams on the threshold of the NCAA, coached 2 NIT runner-ups and 3 NIT teams. Well said...how about a banner as well for Craig Upchurch as a tribute to the incompetent buffoons who have cursed this program? Coach G had a mortal lock on a big dance bid with this stud, a guaranteed glue guy to finally pound Pete Gillen, and look what happened! AGB91, Box and Won, dennis_w and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 8 hours ago, VeniceMenace said: Well said...how about a banner as well for Craig Upchurch as a tribute to the incompetent buffoons who have cursed this program? Coach G had a mortal lock on a big dance bid with this stud, a guaranteed glue guy to finally pound Pete Gillen, and look what happened! I blame Jim Bakken! VeniceMenace likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 47 minutes ago, David King said: I blame Jim Bakken! They couldn't find him He was on the golf course. VeniceMenace and David King like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff Man Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 22 hours ago, billiken_roy said: the problem was the old midwestern cities conference got zero respect from the ncaa. we were a one bid conference forever. we should have been given a spot for the douglas, gray bonner years. yes we were the second best team in the conference to xu, but those billiken teams were very deserving imo. Looking back at Grawer's tenure, they lost to Xavier in the MCC tournament final in 1986 (8 point loss), 1987 (12 point loss), and 1991 (16 point loss). SLU finished 2nd in the regular season MCC standings in 1986 and 1989. So 1986 was the only year when they were the clear cut 2nd best team - but they went 18-12. This was when Douglass and Gray were freshmen and Bonner was a SR at Vashon. In 1986-87 the MCC had 2 teams 8-4 and 2 teams 7-5 including SLU. IF they had just avoided road losses at sub .500 Oral Roberts and Butler, they'd have won the MCC outright (9-3) instead of being tied for 3rd and would have been 22-6 headed into the MCC tournament (where they lost to Xavier in the final) instead of 20-8. The 1988 team was undone by the Upchurch fiasco and they were just a .500 team finishing 3rd in the MCC and lost to Detroit in the 1st round of the MCC tournament. The 1988-89 team (Douglass/Gray SR year, Bonner's JR year) finished 2nd in the MCC in the regular season behind Evansville, but got smoked by Xavier in the MCC semis and 3rd place Xavier went on to win the auto-bid. Xavier (led by Tyrone Hill) ended up a 14-seed and lost to eventual national champion Michigan by 5 in the first round. That 1989 team was Grawer's best chance and ultimately they were undone by road losses to Dayton and Detroit. Also they had single digit road losses at SMS, Colorado, Memphis St and Xavier plus a 3 point loss vs top 10 Iowa on a neutral court - if they had won 2 of those resume builders and avoided the 2 bad conference losses, they'd have tied Evansville (or finished 1st if one of the resume builders was the game at Xavier) and would have been 26-4 heading into the MCC tournament instead of 22-8 and even more importantly they could have potentially avoided Xavier until the final... The 1990 team was undone by injuries/illness and suspensions and fell apart in the opening round of the MCC tournament, losing to Loyola. The MCC got 2 bids in Bonner's JR and SR seasons. Evansville (at large) and Xavier (auto-bid) made the dance in 1989 while Xavier (at-large) and Dayton (auto-bid) made it in 1990. It was tough to make the dance as an at-large but it was possible. Grawer's teams never finished 1st in the conference regular season and only once made the conference tournament final in a year when they finished 2nd in the regular season - and that team was 18-12. There was clearly a scenario where they could have made it in 1987 or 1989 - but they just didn't take care of business on the road against the bottom feeders of the MCC. MusicCityBilliken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Duff Man said: Looking back at Grawer's tenure, they lost to Xavier in the MCC tournament final in 1986 (8 point loss), 1987 (12 point loss), and 1991 (16 point loss). SLU finished 2nd in the regular season MCC standings in 1986 and 1989. So 1986 was the only year when they were the clear cut 2nd best team - but they went 18-12. This was when Douglass and Gray were freshmen and Bonner was a SR at Vashon. In 1986-87 the MCC had 2 teams 8-4 and 2 teams 7-5 including SLU. IF they had just avoided road losses at sub .500 Oral Roberts and Butler, they'd have won the MCC outright (9-3) instead of being tied for 3rd and would have been 22-6 headed into the MCC tournament (where they lost to Xavier in the final) instead of 20-8. The 1988 team was undone by the Upchurch fiasco and they were just a .500 team finishing 3rd in the MCC and lost to Detroit in the 1st round of the MCC tournament. The 1988-89 team (Douglass/Gray SR year, Bonner's JR year) finished 2nd in the MCC in the regular season behind Evansville, but got smoked by Xavier in the MCC semis and 3rd place Xavier went on to win the auto-bid. Xavier (led by Tyrone Hill) ended up a 14-seed and lost to eventual national champion Michigan by 5 in the first round. That 1989 team was Grawer's best chance and ultimately they were undone by road losses to Dayton and Detroit. Also they had single digit road losses at SMS, Colorado, Memphis St and Xavier plus a 3 point loss vs top 10 Iowa on a neutral court - if they had won 2 of those resume builders and avoided the 2 bad conference losses, they'd have tied Evansville (or finished 1st if one of the resume builders was the game at Xavier) and would have been 26-4 heading into the MCC tournament instead of 22-8 and even more importantly they could have potentially avoided Xavier until the final... The 1990 team was undone by injuries/illness and suspensions and fell apart in the opening round of the MCC tournament, losing to Loyola. The MCC got 2 bids in Bonner's JR and SR seasons. Evansville (at large) and Xavier (auto-bid) made the dance in 1989 while Xavier (at-large) and Dayton (auto-bid) made it in 1990. It was tough to make the dance as an at-large but it was possible. Grawer's teams never finished 1st in the conference regular season and only once made the conference tournament final in a year when they finished 2nd in the regular season - and that team was 18-12. There was clearly a scenario where they could have made it in 1987 or 1989 - but they just didn't take care of business on the road against the bottom feeders of the MCC. I'd love a deep dive on the 88 team from one of the players or the coaching staff. Going into the season the Billikens were favored to win the conference, were in several pre season NCAA tourney previews and made SI's top 40 preseason teams. As an 9 year old that had me the most excited as I read SI voraciously. Was it all Upchurch? Were there other things going on behind the scenes? This team had a ton of talent, maybe the most that Grawer ever had and they completely sh*t the bed. RUBillsFan and Duff Man like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOSLU68 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Not a Grawer fan- the way he actually prioritized talent on the floor was extremely old school. He really works at a better level for himself now. I enjoyed those games where he got a bonus when people went to the games and the old Kiel was an ideal place to play. I don’t see him in the community as a SLU booster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 I know nobody likes to be 2nd best but it looks like if SLU could have finished 2nd a couple of more times under Grawer, they would have secured at-large bids. Same challenge we're facing now. So I understand GMan's comment that we're currently at the same level as Grawer's best teams. No, they didn't have our depth but we don't have a Bonner either. almaman likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 16 hours ago, Bay Area Billiken said: Rich Grawer deserves to be honored. He is the Savior of Billiken Basketball as we know it, our Moses. He led the Billikens out of the Dark Ages, out of the wilderness, but was not allowed to enter the Promised Land (of the NCAA Tournament) himself. He had teams on the threshold of the NCAA, coached 2 NIT runner-ups and 3 NIT teams. This is back when the NIT mattered more. Y'all know my views on today's version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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