Jump to content

3 Point Shooting and Shot Selection


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, SLU1818 said:

I agree we don’t do it often. Against Fordham Traore twice passed the ball out to wide open 3 point shooters after offensive rebounds. GJ took the shot and made it. TJ didn’t shoot and passed the ball to reset up top.

if we can continue/improve at least on this these are high percentage shots

 

1 hour ago, willie said:

My section yelled at TJ for not taking that shot. Right or wrong that is an example of clock management vs going for the kill. I would prefer the shot. 

-I wonder the staff said in film review about TJ not shooting there

SLU1818 likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 82
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

2 hours ago, NH said:

You were also saying it at the end of last season. The simple truth is that many people could not get past Hasahn’s free throw shooting and because that many of his other contributions were a little overlooked. Big men who can defend multiple positions, block shots, pass/handle the ball and rebound like that do not come to SLU very often. It could be a long time until we get another Hasahn French.

With that said, big men like Okoro also do not come to the A10 very often, and Linssen has shown an ability to be an elite finisher. I’m a huge fan of our big man tandem and think the fact that we haven’t been lamenting French’s loss more is a credit to Marten, Franco and the coaching staff.

Are you saying I was saying Okoro was better than Franch last year or the opposite? 

I still feel like Okoro MIGHT end up better than French but like you said we forget how good French was except for F/T's. I also like our Big man tandem right now. I just wish our 3rd option (though I like Traore's potential ) was better right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the four games Okoro has started, Ford has had to pull him early and push the 'reset' button, two or three times.  Perhaps Okoro is more comfortable coming off the bench.  When Linssen gets back, it will be interesting to see how Coach handles their minutes.  Linssen will likely need a game or two to get his game fitness going again.  He/They will get to face Buttrick twice in a week.  Buttrick will put up the three ball, so whomever is in will have to follow him out to the arc.

wgstl likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cowboy II said:

-I realize this is a 3pt thread, but since it has mentioned bigs I would like to see two bigs in the game together, let's give it a 8-10 minute test to see how we do with it

Against certain teams, I agree.  UMass should not be one of those teams.  As Hoosier pointed out, they'll play 5 out a bunch and even their big guy chucks it up a bunch from 3.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Are you saying I was saying Okoro was better than Franch last year or the opposite? 

I still feel like Okoro MIGHT end up better than French but like you said we forget how good French was except for F/T's. I also like our Big man tandem right now. I just wish our 3rd option (though I like Traore's potential ) was better right now. 

Okoro, IMO, is an extremely frustrating player. He’ll receive the ball down low, stumble around, and throw up a complete brick. The next time, he’ll catch the ball smoothly, wheel, deal, and swish a sweet baby hook.

And as much as I enjoyed many aspects of Has’ game, his FT shooting was a massive liability.  Made him almost toxic in the last two minutes of a close game. Okoro is a blessing in this sense, and Martin is a absolute miracle.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Are you saying I was saying Okoro was better than Franch last year or the opposite? 

I still feel like Okoro MIGHT end up better than French but like you said we forget how good French was except for F/T's. I also like our Big man tandem right now. I just wish our 3rd option (though I like Traore's potential ) was better right now. 

I remember you saying last year that Hasahn was under appreciated, which you said again when people were saying Okoro was better. I agree with you.

And I also don’t think that’s a criticism of Okoro. I think he’s been very good. But Hasahn was a special player, he just had a glaring weakness (FTs) that was understandably hard for some to get past. 

slufanskip likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, NH said:

I remember you saying last year that Hasahn was under appreciated, which you said again when people were saying Okoro was better. I agree with you.

And I also don’t think that’s a criticism of Okoro. I think he’s been very good. But Hasahn was a special player, he just had a glaring weakness (FTs) that was understandably hard for some to get past. 

french weakness was more than free throws.   he couldnt shoot a lick.   anything beyond 3 feet was not going to happen.   

i loved french's energy and sheer beat mode strength.  he was a very good rebounder and defender.   but personally i will take okoro over him.   plus okoro has a higher ceiling.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why do we have to bring up French's passing when talking about Okoro's lack of passing? Yes French was a good passer out of the post most times but saying we were spoiled by French seems like the wrong approach. I'm not asking Okoro to average 2.5 apg but I am asking him to even attempt a pass out of the post more than once every few games. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

french weakness was more than free throws.   he couldnt shoot a lick.   anything beyond 3 feet was not going to happen.   

i loved french's energy and sheer beat mode strength.  he was a very good rebounder and defender.   but personally i will take okoro over him.   plus okoro has a higher ceiling.   

I’ve yet to see Okoro make a shot outside of a hook. And he shoots those at a lower clip than French did 

slufanskip likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Why do we have to bring up French's passing when talking about Okoro's lack of passing? Yes French was a good passer out of the post most times but saying we were spoiled by French seems like the wrong approach. I'm not asking Okoro to average 2.5 apg but I am asking him to even attempt a pass out of the post more than once every few games. 

Because mentioning French's recent success in kick-outs indicates that at minimum the coaching staff isn't AGAINST kick-outs.  We cannot ask players to do something, but Coach can (and should)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

I’ve yet to see Okoro make a shot outside of a hook. And he shoots those at a lower clip than French did 

French career fg% 51.7%

Okoro billiken fg% 53.1%

Bills By 40 likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My frustration with Okoro is he too often goes up soft.   He needs the French ferocity whenever he touches the ball in the lane imo.

And for those of you wanting Okoro to pass out, I don't.   If you have an inside player as obviously physically strong as Okoro or French get the ball 3 feet from the basket, I want that player to go up strong.   Especially Okoro who is making free throws at 73% rate.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

My frustration with Okoro is he too often goes up soft.   He needs the French ferocity whenever he touches the ball in the lane imo.

And for those of you wanting Okoro to pass out, I don't.   If you have an inside player as obviously physically strong as Okoro or French get the ball 3 feet from the basket, I want that player to go up strong.   Especially Okoro who is making free throws at 73% rate.  

Okoro's big problem this season, IMO, is that he hesitates before he goes up and not as much going up soft.  That disappeared down the stretch against Fordham.  I hope that continues going forward.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Not sure why you are comparing 16 games versus 117 games.

Okoro career FG% 51.0%

Definitely, definitely want Okoro to pass out of the post more often. 

because i have no idea how oregon used okoro and how he played.   but i know how the billikens use him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Not sure why you are comparing 16 games versus 117 games.

Okoro career FG% 51.0%

Definitely, definitely want Okoro to pass out of the post more often. 

French's stats last season vs. Okoro this season

MPG-French 25, Okoro 22.4

PPG-French 9.2, Okoro 9.0

RPG-French 7.2, Okoro 7.6 

Offensive RPG- French 2.4, Okoro 3.1

Blocks- French 1.4, Okoro 1.6

APG-French 2.6, Okoro 0.3

Turnovers-French 1.6, Okoro 0.9

FG%-French 53%, Okoro 53%

FT%-French 33%, Okoro 74%

 

I think if anyone is selling anyone short in this debate, they are selling Okoro short.  This is especially true when you remember Okoro is only 16 games back from a year plus of not playing basketball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

French' s major liability --- the free throw line ---- comes into drastic focus when you are trying to win or close out games.  His inability to overcome that weakness in his game will always be what defines his career.  And it's unwarranted because he did so much good.  But when the TV lights are brightest and the game hangs in the balance --- not so much Hasahn.

billiken_roy likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

because i have no idea how oregon used okoro and how he played.   but i know how the billikens use him.

They used him in the post, just like the Bills.  Oregon was a wing oriented team like the Bills.  He still only averaged 0.2 assists per game for Oregon, 0.3 assists per game for SLU.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, brianstl said:

French's stats last season vs. Okoro this season

MPG-French 25, Okoro 22.4

PPG-French 9.2, Okoro 9.0

RPG-French 7.2, Okoro 7.6 

Offensive RPG- French 2.4, Okoro 3.1

Blocks- French 1.4, Okoro 1.6

APG-French 2.6, Okoro 0.3

Turnovers-French 1.6, Okoro 0.9

FG%-French 53%, Okoro 53%

FT%-French 33%, Okoro 74%

 

I think if anyone is selling anyone short in this debate, they are selling Okoro short.  This is especially true when you remember Okoro is only 16 games back from a year plus of not playing basketball.

And counting numbers don't have as much use when French played on a team with a big time scorer in Perkins (plus Goodwin) and a big time rebounder in Goodwin. Okoro is our only elite rebounding option on both ends when he is playing. Maybe Thatch?

 

French was limited in only being 6-7, and being the worst FT shooter we have seen. FTs aside, Has was a much more complete and (IMO) better player than Okoro. But we have to shoot FTs and that brings them a lot closer. If Has shot FTs at even a 70% clip, he would be on the mount rushmore of Bills (is that even that hot of a take?).

 

Okoro's unwillingness to pass is even more frustrating when you think about the fact that, at basically all times, we have 3-4 real three point threats on the floor with him, something French did not have... more like 2 in his case

HoosierPal likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Okoro's big problem this season, IMO, is that he hesitates before he goes up and not as much going up soft.  That disappeared down the stretch against Fordham.  I hope that continues going forward.

 

Not only that, but I'm not sure I've ever seen him do a pump fake. Holmes from Dayton is a master at the pump fake, and he's a FR right. Someone should be drilling this into Franco's head. He'd have a much easier path to the basket if he could get his defender jumping in the air while he scoots by him for an easy slam. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, brianstl said:

French's stats last season vs. Okoro this season

MPG-French 25, Okoro 22.4

PPG-French 9.2, Okoro 9.0

RPG-French 7.2, Okoro 7.6 

Offensive RPG- French 2.4, Okoro 3.1

Blocks- French 1.4, Okoro 1.6

APG-French 2.6, Okoro 0.3

Turnovers-French 1.6, Okoro 0.9

FG%-French 53%, Okoro 53%

FT%-French 33%, Okoro 74%

 

I think if anyone is selling anyone short in this debate, they are selling Okoro short.  This is especially true when you remember Okoro is only 16 games back from a year plus of not playing basketball.

So French's Sr season where he clearly took a step back and we don't know how much of a role Covid played are the stats you are going to select to compare the 2? 

As of this moment I'll take French over Okoro easily. I'm not going to consider French's Sr season as the real Has. I would have said I thought Okoro had a higher ceiling and by the end of his career his best will be better than Has best. I'd still say I lean that way, just not as strongly as I once thought. 

Anytime Okoro gets the ball within 6 or so feet of the basket, he should be looking to score unless a double comes. At that point he needs to recognize it's coming quicker and move the ball back out quicker. But, when he's 1v1 I'm like Roy, I want him trying to score 

Littlebill likes this
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

So French's Sr season where he clearly took a step back and we don't know how much of a role Covid played are the stats you are going to select to compare the 2? 

As of this moment I'll take French over Okoro easily. I'm not going to consider French's Sr season as the real Has. I would have said I thought Okoro had a higher ceiling and by the end of his career his best will be better than Has best. I'd still say I lean that way, just not as strongly as I once thought. 

Anytime Okoro gets the ball within 6 or so feet of the basket, he should be looking to score unless a double comes. At that point he needs to recognize it's coming quicker and move the ball back out quicker. But, when he's 1v1 I'm like Roy, I want him trying to score 

I'm not sure I would take Has over Okoro because of the FT difference. Opponents knew all they had to do to slow Has down was put him on the line. They have to think twice about doing that to Franco. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...