3 Point Shooting and Shot Selection

[BillsBeliever!!!]

One of my biggest problems with this team is the fact that we barely shoot any 3 pointers. As a team we rank 39th in the NCAA in 3pt %, yet we shoot the 6th FEWEST 3 point attempts. 
 

Lately we’ve been shooting great for three, yet we have been trying to force it inside and missing layups. Take yesterday for example, we took 54 total shots, and shot 50% from three, yet we only took 10 attempts front the arc. Same thing against Dayton, shot 5/7 from three in the first 8 minutes then didn’t take another attempt until the second half. 
 

Jimmerson specifically should be getting at least 6-8 attempts per game yet he’s only getting 3-4. Yuri, Hargrove, Nesbitt and Jones are also decent from three and could use more attempts. Especially while two of our biggest inside threats (Linssen and Thatch) are out currently.  

[almaman]

36 minutes ago, BillsBeliever!!! said:

One of my biggest problems with this team is the fact that we barely shoot any 3 pointers. As a team we rank 39th in the NCAA in 3pt %, yet we shoot the 6th FEWEST 3 point attempts. 
 

Lately we’ve been shooting great for three, yet we have been trying to force it inside and missing layups. Take yesterday for example, we took 54 total shots, and shot 50% from three, yet we only took 10 attempts front the arc. Same thing against Dayton, shot 5/7 from three in the first 8 minutes then didn’t take another attempt until the second half. 
 

Jimmerson specifically should be getting at least 6-8 attempts per game yet he’s only getting 3-4. Yuri, Hargrove, Nesbitt and Jones are also decent from three and could use more attempts. Especially while two of our biggest inside threats (Linssen and Thatch) are out currently.  

GJ been covered too well to get off that many 3's.

[Dr Bird]

Our bigs don't kick out this season.  Hasahn was pretty good at kicking out for open 3 pointers.

[CBFan]

Jimerson getting open is tough because defenses are denying Jimerson the ball.  Teams chase and hold Jimerson all game every game.  Yesterday’s game he played all 40 minutes I am impressed with his stamina.

Jones was in a 3 point shooting slump and I think is reluctant to shoot.

Hargrove had the right attitude, shoot his way out of it.

Williams was brought in to shoot 3’s and cannot stay on the court.

I think next season when Perkins is back, Nesbitt has a year of experience and Sincere Parker is on the court I hope there will be many more attempts.

[juniorbill76]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bird said:

Our bigs don't kick out this season.  Hasahn was pretty good at kicking out for open 3 pointers.

I’ve thought this all season. We see other teams do it regularly. Seems like something that would be pretty straightforward to practice.

[HoosierPal]

14 minutes ago, Dr Bird said:

Our bigs don't kick out this season.  Hasahn was pretty good at kicking out for open 3 pointers.

That is a huge factor.  This entire season, Okoro has 5 total assists in 16 games, Traore has 2 in 11 games.  Linssen, in 12 games has 10 assists.  That is 17 assists from the pivot.  In 19 games last season, French had 45 assists. Add Bell's 8 assists in 19 games if you want to as well as Linssen's 8 in 21 games, for 61 out of the post.  That is a 3.5x factor for passes out of the post that resulted in points in 3 more games.

Were we spoiled with French’s elite court awareness?  Is our current tag team of 3 more the norm? 

[Gremio14]

10 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

That is a huge factor.  This entire season, Okoro has 5 total assists in 16 games, Traore has 2 in 11 games.  Linssen, in 12 games has 10 assists.  That is 17 assists from the pivot.  In 19 games last season, French had 45 assists. Add Bell's 8 assists in 19 games if you want to as well as Linssen's 8 in 21 games, for 61 out of the post.  That is a 3.5x factor for passes out of the post that resulted in points in 3 more games.

Absolutely! For me this is one of the most vexing parts of the Bills offense.

[cheeseman]

15 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

I’ve thought this all season. We see other teams do it regularly. Seems like something that would be pretty straightforward to practice.

I wonder if the problem is our bigs do not handle the ball well. 

[Franchise_08]

Lack of use of Williams and Yuri being hesitant to shoot are factors as well. GJ is well covered but we would line more 3s put up, other than him who else do you want shooting 3s? TJ, Nesbitt?

[HoosierPal]

7 minutes ago, Franchise_08 said:

Lack of use of Williams and Yuri being hesitant to shoot are factors as well. GJ is well covered but we would line more 3s put up, other than him who else do you want shooting 3s? TJ, Nesbitt?

Passes out of the pivot don’t have to be for 3’s. 

Jones and Hargrove are hitting 38% from the arc, so sure, fire away. 

[NH]

36 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

That is a huge factor.  This entire season, Okoro has 5 total assists in 16 games, Traore has 2 in 11 games.  Linssen, in 12 games has 10 assists.  That is 17 assists from the pivot.  In 19 games last season, French had 45 assists. Add Bell's 8 assists in 19 games if you want to as well as Linssen's 8 in 21 games, for 61 out of the post.  That is a 3.5x factor for passes out of the post that resulted in points in 3 more games.

Were we spoiled with French’s elite court awareness?  Is our current tag team of 3 more the norm? 

I do think we were spoiled by French’s passing 

[CenHudDude]

2 hours ago, NH said:

I do think we were spoiled by French’s passing 

Too many people under appreciated Has.  It was easy to pick on his atrocious free throw shooting and the fact that he couldn’t score away from the basket.  He excelled in so many other aspects of the game though.

[Dr. Holly Hills]

14 minutes ago, CenHudDude said:

Too many people under appreciated Has.  It was easy to pick on his atrocious free throw shooting and the fact that he couldn’t score away from the basket.  He excelled in so many other aspects of the game though.

He was not afraid to dunk it. That’s for sure.

[HoosierPal]

48 minutes ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

He was not afraid to dunk it. That’s for sure.

And he was successful more times than not.  

[cgeldmacher]

10 hours ago, Dr Bird said:

Our bigs don't kick out this season.  Hasahn was pretty good at kicking out for open 3 pointers.

No one other than Yuri, passes the ball out to the three point line when they have the ball inside.  Actually, Nesbit does on occasion, but not enough.

[Taj79]

The bigs are the issue here.  Great point.  

[RUBillsFan]

11 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

No one, other than Yuri, passes the ball

This is sort of in jest, but you could have stopped right here & been mostly accurate

[slu72]

Nothing to do with 3 pt shots, but I don't understand why on some trips our big don't comes out to the top of the key to set a screen for Yuri and then does a roll to the hoop. If you'll recall this is how Auburn got back in our game and eventually won. They're 7' guy set a screen and then rolled to get a pass for an easy slam. For some reason we had no way to stop him. Easy play that can give you points. 

I do agree with everyone's take that our bigs are not doing their job on finding an open 3 shooter. Gibby, TJ, and Nesbitt have all shown they can shoot it, plus a lot of misses/clankers end up beyond the perimeter where our guards can pick up an easy board and get a new clock. I remember reading Pitino's take some year's back on why he liked the 3 so much. Beyond the obvious extra point, he said a lot of the misses carom back to the perimeter creating an easy board for his guards, so he encouraged his guys to shoot 3's when they were open. 

[Major Majerus]

This is a great thread - no political stuff & great discussion - hope Ford is lurking

[Littlebill]

45 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Nothing to do with 3 pt shots, but I don't understand why on some trips our big don't comes out to the top of the key to set a screen for Yuri and then does a roll to the hoop. If you'll recall this is how Auburn got back in our game and eventually won. They're 7' guy set a screen and then rolled to get a pass for an easy slam. For some reason we had no way to stop him. Easy play that can give you points. 

I do agree with everyone's take that our bigs are not doing their job on finding an open 3 shooter. Gibby, TJ, and Nesbitt have all shown they can shoot it, plus a lot of misses/clankers end up beyond the perimeter where our guards can pick up an easy board and get a new clock. I remember reading Pitino's take some year's back on why he liked the 3 so much. Beyond the obvious extra point, he said a lot of the misses carom back to the perimeter creating an easy board for his guards, so he encouraged his guys to shoot 3's when they were open. 

We do a lot of PnR with Linssen - would love to get him back. He helps floor spacing so much. I don't think Okoro is capable of doing anything on the move/on the bounce. Or anything outside of a back to the basket post-up. Walker Kesslers don't come to SLU.

[Crewsorlose]

22 hours ago, NH said:

I do think we were spoiled by French’s passing 

He also drew double teams. Okoro often left to go one on one. 

[slufanskip]

19 hours ago, CenHudDude said:

Too many people under appreciated Has.  It was easy to pick on his atrocious free throw shooting and the fact that he couldn’t score away from the basket.  He excelled in so many other aspects of the game though.

I kept trying to say this when some were saying Okoro was already better than French at the beginning of the season. It was assumed also by many that he would end up better. The 1st one is certainly wrong and I'n not 100% sure the latter will end up true

[NH]

9 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

I kept trying to say this when some were saying Okoro was already better than French at the beginning of the season. It was assumed also by many that he would end up better. The 1st one is certainly wrong and I'n not 100% sure the latter will end up true

You were also saying it at the end of last season. The simple truth is that many people could not get past Hasahn’s free throw shooting and because that many of his other contributions were a little overlooked. Big men who can defend multiple positions, block shots, pass/handle the ball and rebound like that do not come to SLU very often. It could be a long time until we get another Hasahn French.

With that said, big men like Okoro also do not come to the A10 very often, and Linssen has shown an ability to be an elite finisher. I’m a huge fan of our big man tandem and think the fact that we haven’t been lamenting French’s loss more is a credit to Marten, Franco and the coaching staff.

[SLU1818]

13 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

No one other than Yuri, passes the ball out to the three point line when they have the ball inside.  Actually, Nesbit does on occasion, but not enough.

I agree we don’t do it often. Against Fordham Traore twice passed the ball out to wide open 3 point shooters after offensive rebounds. GJ took the shot and made it. TJ didn’t shoot and passed the ball to reset up top.

if we can continue/improve at least on this these are high percentage shots

[willie]

My section yelled at TJ for not taking that shot. Right or wrong that is an example of clock management vs going for the kill. I would prefer the shot.