Travis Ford is not a good coach

[Bonner89]

You have one of if not your best player on the bench for 8 minutes, a player who decided to come back home and play for the hometown team BTW, while you watch the game AND NCAA playoff hopes dash before your eyes. What message will that send to other talented recruits in the St. Louis area ?

 

 

[Bonner89]

 

[mrjoelabs]

And terrible to put this on a kid...Ford had Marcus Smart and couldn't win anything at OK STATE

[Matty Light]

40 minutes ago, mrjoelabs said:

And terrible to put this on a kid...Ford had Marcus Smart and couldn't win anything at OK STATE

What do this mean? Having one Marcus Smart should be enough to beat Russ Smith and those guys at Louisville? Or win the Big 12?

Okie State finished one game behind Kansas in 2013, during a stretch where the Jayhawks won like 20 conference titles in a row.

Then Okie State faced a ridiculously underseeded Oregon on the west coast in The Big Dance. I remember because Oregon whipped us next.

I don't get how Ford was supposed to win something in that context.

[mrjoelabs]

1 minute ago, Matty Light said:

What do this mean? Having one Marcus Smart should be enough to beat Russ Smith and those guys at Louisville? Or win the Big 12?

Okie State finished one game behind Kansas in 2013, during a stretch where the Jayhawks won like 20 conference titles in a row.

Then Okie State faced a ridiculously underseeded Oregon on the west coast in The Big Dance. I remember because Oregon whipped us next.

I don't get how Ford was supposed to win something in that context.

Mostly correct but the point is he always recruits good talent...and then underperforms

[Compton]

11 hours ago, Bonner89 said:

 

Good to see Stu finally taking some personal responsibility.

[Bills By 40]

Chill with the title of this thread. We all seem to know everything but it ain't as simple as we MBM's spell it out to be. 

[slu72]

I don’t know who bears the bulk of the burden for these 2 collapses, so I’ll go with what Harry Truman said, the buck stops here. And the here is the head coach’s office. Travis, who I like, had better get this figured out soon. 

[billikenfan05]

Don't feed the trolls.

[johnbj14]

This team lost the best scorer we’ve had since Larry Hughes, the player the offensive identity was built around who was potentially the A-10 POY. Last night was disappointing, but the team is going to drop games like this without him. Yeah, coaching has played a role in the last two losses, but I’m finding it really hard that there is some massive conclusion about Travis that should be reached. 

[brianstl]

26 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

This team lost the best scorer we’ve had since Larry Hughes, the player the offensive identity was built around who was potentially the A-10 POY. Last night was disappointing, but the team is going to drop games like this without him. Yeah, coaching has played a role in the last two losses, but I’m finding it really hard that there is some massive conclusion about Travis that should be reached. 

That player under normal circumstances wouldn't have had eligibility left.  It isn't like this team was built with the expectation that Perkins was going to be here.

[RUBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That player under normal circumstances wouldn't have had eligibility left.  It isn't like this team was built with the expectation that Perkins was going to be here.

You have a point, but you could also make counterarguments to this:

Perkins announced early in the spring that he was returning.  SLU may have been more active in the transfer portal or able to land more talent if Perkins playing time / scoring load was open for the taking.

Also you could argue that Perkins going down in an exhibition game right before the regular season is worse than knowing he's going to be out all year & being able to plan accordingly during preseason practices.

[billikenfan05]

24 minutes ago, brianstl said:

That player under normal circumstances wouldn't have had eligibility left.  It isn't like this team was built with the expectation that Perkins was going to be here.

I think this is definitely a fair point to make, and I think this board should have the discussion but the two main players in this thread are massive flamers on this board. I believe the coaching staff would had pivoted and found somebody to replace that role had they been told Perkins would not return via the portal. That being said, I don't think it's fair to criticize Ford based on a hypothetical.

A lot of frustration though is coming through because it's difficult to adjust expectations from preseason with Perkins to post injury without Perkins. 

[HoosierPal]

11 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Perkins announced early in the spring that he was returning.  SLU may have been more active in the transfer portal or able to land more talent if Perkins playing time / scoring load was open for the taking.

This is a good point.  One thing this roster is missing is a secondary rebounder, after whomever plays in the paint.  Okay, we have replaced French's boards more or less with Linssen/Okoro/Traore.  We are aksing Hargrove and/or Nesbitt and/or Thatch to replace Goodwin's boards.  Perkins is not/was not a rebounder.  He isn't the guy we put on our opponent's best player.  We don't have that 'guy' who is 6'6" to 6'8", rebounds like a Goodwin warrior, and defends the heck out of the opponent's wing/power player.

[RUBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

This is a good point.  One thing this roster is missing is a secondary rebounder, after whomever plays in the paint.  Okay, we have replaced French's boards more or less with Linssen/Okoro/Traore.  We are aksing Hargrove and/or Nesbitt and/or Thatch to replace Goodwin's boards.  Perkins is not/was not a rebounder.  He isn't the guy we put on our opponent's best player.  We don't have that 'guy' who is 6'6" to 6'8", rebounds like a Goodwin warrior, and defends the heck out of the opponent's wing/power player.

IMO Thatch can be that secondary rebounder.  Not quite Goodwin level, but Thatch is a very good rebounder.  The issue is that Thatch has a lot of other holes in his game that create problems elsewhere.  Also given his condition, I'm  not sure Thatch can provide really heavy minutes.

[majerus mojo]

36 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

A lot of frustration though is coming through because it's difficult to adjust expectations from preseason with Perkins to post injury without Perkins. 

With Perkins, we should have expected to be a tournament team. Without him, I'd be thrilled with 18-12. We practiced/game-planned all summer with him as the focal point of the team. He was a front-runner for A-10 POY, but now Ford should uhh, just coach a little better to offset that loss?

Love reading the GDTs following a loss. Folks now claiming their HS basketball experience qualifies them to sit on the bench

[slufan13]

This is who Ford is and always has been. I'm not saying he's a good or bad coach. But what we've seen from him this season is what fans of his teams at other schools have said about him 

[RUBillsFan]

Was Ford a bad coach when we were expected to finish last in the A10 during his 1st season when Crews left the cupboard bare, but ended up winning 6 A10 games to finish 11th easily ahead of 12-14?

Was he a bad coach when he took a team decimated by Situation 2.0 with zero depth during his 2nd season to a winning record and tie for 5th place in the A10?

Was he a bad coach when he rallied the team in his 3rd season to win 4 games 4 in days to win the A10 tournament?

Was he a bad coach when he rallied the team after JImerson's foot injury & Thatch's illness in his 4th season to be one of the hottest teams in the country who had captured 4th place going into the A10 tournament?

He's not Rick Majerus.  These last 2 losses have been rough.  But he's not a bad coach.  SLU has lost heartbreaking games under Ford (and every coach before him) in the past and they will in the future.  Best not to judge based on one or 2 games.

[billiken_roy]

RU, Ford is an excellent recruiter and a very good motivator.

Imo, he is not a good floor coach or player developer.  I'm not speaking of him as a coach overall 

I think that is what many are expressing today.  Not that overall he is a bad coach but a questionable floor coach.  Even with what I view as his short comings, I'd still want him to be our coach as his strengths always give us a chance and I dread the day we replace him because our track record of hiring a coach is not good. 

 It's just frustrating to me we are so close.

 

[cgeldmacher]

Roy, I think its very easy to blame the coach when fans get over excited about a few wins and start expecting more of their team than the team can produce.  Here's a list of some results from this season: Arizona State loses to UC Riverside, Standford lost to Santa Clara, Virginia lost to Navy, Florida lost to Texas Southern, South Carolina lost to Princeton, Pittsburgh lost to The Citadel, and Dayton lost to Lipscomb, UMass Lowell, and Austin Peay.  The list goes on and on.  Are the coaches of all of those teams bad coaches?  Certainly those teams didn't perform up to their talent level in those games.  How many of those teams lost their top player and probably conference POY winner right before the season started.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Anthony Grant is a bad coach two years after his team was going to be a #1 seed in the tournament, but his team lost to three teams that are much worse than UAB and Belmont.  Are you saying he's a bad coach?  I guarantee that someone could watch those three games and come up with an argument as to why his coaching sucked in those games, but the reality might just be that his team's talent level isn't what it has been in past years and that what he had didn't perform in this games.

We lost our best offensive player and our team was still averaging 80+ points a game.  We lost two of our best all time rebounders and our team was still outrebounding most teams.  Our team lost some very good defenders, and they held a high scoring team down last night and have done so in general this season.  Ford is a better recruiter and motivator than a bench coach, but I still would not trade him for almost anyone out there.

 

[Littlebill]

39 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Anthony Grant is a bad coach two years after his team was going to be a #1 seed in the tournament, but his team lost to three teams that are much worse than UAB and Belmont.  Are you saying he's a bad coach?  I guarantee that someone could watch those three games and come up with an argument as to why his coaching sucked in those games, but the reality might just be that his team's talent level isn't what it has been in past years and that what he had didn't perform in this games

I don't think it gets talked about enough how average Dayton has been when they don't have a lottery pick on the team. Grant easily most overrated coach in the league. 

[billiken_roy]

41 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Roy, I think its very easy to blame the coach when fans get over excited about a few wins and start expecting more of their team than the team can produce.  Here's a list of some results from this season: Arizona State loses to UC Riverside, Standford lost to Santa Clara, Virginia lost to Navy, Florida lost to Texas Southern, South Carolina lost to Princeton, Pittsburgh lost to The Citadel, and Dayton lost to Lipscomb, UMass Lowell, and Austin Peay.  The list goes on and on.  Are the coaches of all of those teams bad coaches?  Certainly those teams didn't perform up to their talent level in those games.  How many of those teams lost their top player and probably conference POY winner right before the season started.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Anthony Grant is a bad coach two years after his team was going to be a #1 seed in the tournament, but his team lost to three teams that are much worse than UAB and Belmont.  Are you saying he's a bad coach?  I guarantee that someone could watch those three games and come up with an argument as to why his coaching sucked in those games, but the reality might just be that his team's talent level isn't what it has been in past years and that what he had didn't perform in this games.

We lost our best offensive player and our team was still averaging 80+ points a game.  We lost two of our best all time rebounders and our team was still outrebounding most teams.  Our team lost some very good defenders, and they held a high scoring team down last night and have done so in general this season.  Ford is a better recruiter and motivator than a bench coach, but I still would not trade him for almost anyone out there.

 

i do think anthony grant is and has always been a bad floor coach who had the luck of having an outstanding group of players.  

[brianstl]

16 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Roy, I think its very easy to blame the coach when fans get over excited about a few wins and start expecting more of their team than the team can produce.  Here's a list of some results from this season: Arizona State loses to UC Riverside, Standford lost to Santa Clara, Virginia lost to Navy, Florida lost to Texas Southern, South Carolina lost to Princeton, Pittsburgh lost to The Citadel, and Dayton lost to Lipscomb, UMass Lowell, and Austin Peay.  The list goes on and on.  Are the coaches of all of those teams bad coaches?  Certainly those teams didn't perform up to their talent level in those games.  How many of those teams lost their top player and probably conference POY winner right before the season started.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that Anthony Grant is a bad coach two years after his team was going to be a #1 seed in the tournament, but his team lost to three teams that are much worse than UAB and Belmont.  Are you saying he's a bad coach?  I guarantee that someone could watch those three games and come up with an argument as to why his coaching sucked in those games, but the reality might just be that his team's talent level isn't what it has been in past years and that what he had didn't perform in this games.

We lost our best offensive player and our team was still averaging 80+ points a game.  We lost two of our best all time rebounders and our team was still outrebounding most teams.  Our team lost some very good defenders, and they held a high scoring team down last night and have done so in general this season.  Ford is a better recruiter and motivator than a bench coach, but I still would not trade him for almost anyone out there.

 

My biggest problem with the last two losses isn't the fact we lost, it is the way we lost.

[dlarry]

Ford can win at this level and I think he will win here.

It’s obvious I had my expectations to high, especially after Perkins went down.

When I look at this roster I just don’t see enough talent.

What current players do you see starting on a top 25 team?

Collins….solid back up PG on a top 25 team. makes great passes, has trouble shooting, turns the ball over to much, not tall enough.

Hargrove…He hits the occasional 3 but hasn’t shown the ability to get to the basket and score on a regular basis. He can rebound Ok and defend OK but he hasn’t shown me he can be an all league player.

Linssen…decent big but he isn’t starting on a top 25 team.

Jimerson…he can score but that’s all he does. He has trouble defending and rebounding. He could possibly start on a top 25 team.

Nesbitt…he wasn’t going to start at Memphis. I think he will be a star for the Bills but not this year.

Okoro….I think he will blossom into an all league player but bigs take time and I think the year off hurt him

Thatch….High motor reserve. Good defense and rebounding. Occasionally has high scoring games.

Jones….looks good coming off the bench.

To me the problem isn’t game coaching it’s either Ford and company not being able to coach these players up or talent evaluation. 
 

All that said I still think they can compete for an A10 title and provide a lot of excitement along the way.

 

[CenHudDude]

6 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

Was Ford a bad coach when we were expected to finish last in the A10 during his 1st season when Crews left the cupboard bare, but ended up winning 6 A10 games to finish 11th easily ahead of 12-14?

Was he a bad coach when he took a team decimated by Situation 2.0 with zero depth during his 2nd season to a winning record and tie for 5th place in the A10?

Was he a bad coach when he rallied the team in his 3rd season to win 4 games 4 in days to win the A10 tournament?

Was he a bad coach when he rallied the team after JImerson's foot injury & Thatch's illness in his 4th season to be one of the hottest teams in the country who had captured 4th place going into the A10 tournament?

He's not Rick Majerus.  These last 2 losses have been rough.  But he's not a bad coach.  SLU has lost heartbreaking games under Ford (and every coach before him) in the past and they will in the future.  Best not to judge based on one or 2 games.

Well stated sir.