GDT: SLU vs. SFA

[Old guy]

Whatever Perkins decides to do, we should all realize that he has lots of options available to him and is probably getting lots of "advice" from all kinds of sources. He will have to make up his mind about what is the best choice.

One possibility no one has talked about is that by the time next season rolls along, SLU will have played a whole season without him. If we have good success without Perkins this year, as we all hope to have, Perkins may not be able to occupy the star position that would have been his this year. He may come back in but he may not be in the same position within the team that he would have had this season. He may not like that, he may expect to go back to the way it was prior to this season. That may be a reason to try elsewhere next year.

[slufanskip]

8 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Whatever Perkins decides to do, we should all realize that he has lots of options available to him and is probably getting lots of "advice" from all kinds of sources. He will have to make up his mind about what is the best choice.

One possibility no one has talked about is that by the time next season rolls along, SLU will have played a whole season without him. If we have good success without Perkins this year, as we all hope to have, Perkins may not be able to occupy the star position that would have been his this year. He may come back in but he may not be in the same position within the team that he would have had this season. He may not like that, he may expect to go back to the way it was prior to this season. That may be a reason to try elsewhere next year.

If Javonte wants to come back, he will and if he is fully recovered, he'll lead the team in scoring. He's the best scorer we've had since Larry Hughes and possibly the best even including Larry. He gets his points in so many different ways and his increased strength was just going to give him even another way to score. 

[Old guy]

I am not saying it is impossible to achieve what you think he will do. I am saying that after recovering from an ACL tear and repair, and a full year without playing (although he might be able to start practicing before the full year is over), it will not be easy for him to get to the same level he was at prior to the injury.

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I am not saying it is impossible to achieve what you think he will do. I am saying that after recovering from an ACL tear and repair, and a full year without playing (although he might be able to start practicing before the full year is over), it will not be easy for him to get to the same level he was at prior to the injury.

So, You are saying if he doesn't get to the level he was at prior to the injury, he might not be as good as he was before the injury? 

[Old guy]

Good is a vague concept. I am saying that after any major injury followed by rehab there is a gap between the level of functional ability prior to the injury and after the injury and rehab. This can be minimized by practice and playing but I doubt he will have enough of either practice or playing time before the start of next season to be at the same level he was before his injury. Anything can happen as you well know. I do not expect to see the same Perkins, but he may eventually get there.

[willie]

12 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Good is a vague concept. I am saying that after any major injury followed by rehab there is a gap between the level of functional ability prior to the injury and after the injury and rehab. This can be minimized by practice and playing but I doubt he will have enough of either practice or playing time before the start of next season to be at the same level he was before his injury. Anything can happen as you well know. I do not expect to see the same Perkins, but he may eventually get there.

Don’t know how long Kevin Durant sat but he sure didn’t lose anything. 

[Old guy]

27 minutes ago, willie said:

Don’t know how long Kevin Durant sat but he sure didn’t lose anything. 

Did he have an ACL tear and rehab?

 

[HenryB]

32 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Did he have an ACL tear and rehab?

 

Achilles 

[Old guy]

They are not the same. After an ACL tear repair you are not weight bearing with the injured knee because the knee is not stable under weight. Strengthening of the knee ligaments to be fully weight bearing takes time (that means holding your weight in a stable manner, not basketball level stresses). You can walk with a limp after a repaired Achilles tear after a relatively short period of time with relatively minor orthotics/boot, a and possibly a cane or other aids. Understand that what is called full recovery for injuries is generally taken to mean regaining ability to walk and work without aids. To play basketball after a tear takes a good deal longer than a standard rehab job, and depends on the severity of the tear. The physical training guys at SLU are aware of the process required to bring a kid back up to speed, that is ability to play basketball, not necessarily to bring them back up to be the team's best player.

Just want you people to know that some kinds of ligament tears may result in permanent disability, depending on the level of training and the kind of job involved, even after repairs and ability to use the joint for daily living activities.

[Billikenbooster]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

They are not the same. After an ACL tear repair you are not weight bearing with the injured knee because the knee is not stable under weight. Strengthening of the knee ligaments to be fully weight bearing takes time (that means holding your weight in a stable manner, not basketball level stresses). You can walk with a limp after a repaired Achilles tear after a relatively short period of time with relatively minor orthotics/boot, a and possibly a cane or other aids. Understand that what is called full recovery for injuries is generally taken to mean regaining ability to walk and work without aids. To play basketball after a tear takes a good deal longer than a standard rehab job, and depends on the severity of the tear. The physical training guys at SLU are aware of the process required to bring a kid back up to speed, that is ability to play basketball, not necessarily to bring them back up to be the team's best player.

Just want you people to know that some kinds of ligament tears may result in permanent disability, depending on the level of training and the kind of job involved, even after repairs and ability to use the joint for daily living activities.

OMG

[Old guy]

40 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

OMG

Too technical for you?

[Major Majerus]

A guy charged me in the lane in a senior league and I couldn’t play on my knee any more.  I went to an orthopedist & he told me it was his first experience with this injury on Medicare.  He did an MRI & gave me the  disc take back to SL.  I asked my CRNA daughter for a referral to an orthopedic surgeon & she referred me to Jody Jachna.  He looked at the disc & said he’d get me back on the court.  Outpatient surgery with a cadaver replacement on May 1 & I played pickup on August 15.  10 years later I’m still playing (with seniors).

[willie]

51 minutes ago, Major Majerus said:

A guy charged me in the lane in a senior league and I couldn’t play on my knee any more.  I went to an orthopedist & he told me it was his first experience with this injury on Medicare.  He did an MRI & gave me the  disc take back to SL.  I asked my CRNA daughter for a referral to an orthopedic surgeon & she referred me to Jody Jachna.  He looked at the disc & said he’d get me back on the court.  Outpatient surgery with a cadaver replacement on May 1 & I played pickup on August 15.  10 years later I’m still playing (with seniors).

Damn. I’m impressed. 

[AnkielBreakers]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:59 PM, Old guy said:

They are not the same. After an ACL tear repair you are not weight bearing with the injured knee because the knee is not stable under weight. Strengthening of the knee ligaments to be fully weight bearing takes time (that means holding your weight in a stable manner, not basketball level stresses). You can walk with a limp after a repaired Achilles tear after a relatively short period of time with relatively minor orthotics/boot, a and possibly a cane or other aids. Understand that what is called full recovery for injuries is generally taken to mean regaining ability to walk and work without aids. To play basketball after a tear takes a good deal longer than a standard rehab job, and depends on the severity of the tear. The physical training guys at SLU are aware of the process required to bring a kid back up to speed, that is ability to play basketball, not necessarily to bring them back up to be the team's best player.

Just want you people to know that some kinds of ligament tears may result in permanent disability, depending on the level of training and the kind of job involved, even after repairs and ability to use the joint for daily living activities.

Would someone please provide a list of players that have had a torn ACL and then returned to normal play. Your analysis is spot on for pre-1992.

[bleedtheblue]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:59 PM, Old guy said:

They are not the same. After an ACL tear repair you are not weight bearing with the injured knee because the knee is not stable under weight. Strengthening of the knee ligaments to be fully weight bearing takes time (that means holding your weight in a stable manner, not basketball level stresses). You can walk with a limp after a repaired Achilles tear after a relatively short period of time with relatively minor orthotics/boot, a and possibly a cane or other aids. Understand that what is called full recovery for injuries is generally taken to mean regaining ability to walk and work without aids. To play basketball after a tear takes a good deal longer than a standard rehab job, and depends on the severity of the tear. The physical training guys at SLU are aware of the process required to bring a kid back up to speed, that is ability to play basketball, not necessarily to bring them back up to be the team's best player.

Just want you people to know that some kinds of ligament tears may result in permanent disability, depending on the level of training and the kind of job involved, even after repairs and ability to use the joint for daily living activities.

 

 

This is not accurate. Following an ACL reconstruction you are weight bearing as tolerated and can start walking on the involved limb immediately, as long as there isn't a meniscal repair, then you wouldn't be weight bearing x 2-4 weeks. Your knee isn't "unstable". You can start running at 16 weeks, cutting drills at 20 weeks, but it remains recommended that you should not return to full contact prior level of sport until 9 months as this leads to a 50% reduction in reinjury per month. 

Achilles repairs, are in some ways worse. You are in a boot for 10-12 weeks and cannot flex your ankle past a neutral position leading to significant gastroc (calf) atrophy. You can't start duing heel raises, single leg balance, etc until about 7-8 weeks which is several weeks after you can do this following an ACL reconstruction.

Personally, between the 2, I would prefer rehabbing an ACL vs an achilles repair.

Source: I am an orthopedic physical therapist with nearly a decade of working with ACL reconstructions. 2 of my former patients are currently playing in the NBA.

[Old guy]

Well, bleed the blue you are a good competent orthopedic surgeon. Were the patients with the ACL reconstructions playing in the NBA within the year? Did you specialize in sports rehabs as a PT?

[bleedtheblue]

11 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Well, bleed the blue you are a good competent orthopedic surgeon. Were the patients with the ACL reconstructions playing in the NBA within the year? Did you specialize in sports rehabs as a PT?

I am a board certified orthopedic clinical specialist and I specialize in orthopedic and sports rehabilitation. I am not a surgeon but I went to school for an extremely long time and have a clinical doctorate in physical therapy.

I know orthopedic physical therapy. I wont/cant comment on neurological PT, pelvic floor PT, pediatric PT etc. as that is not my scope of practice, even though I learned these things in school. 

The surgeons see the patient 3-4 times for 30 minutes following the surgery. Once surgery is over, the physical therapist plays a large role in directing the plan of care based on certain critera the patient meets, the type of surgery, and specific milestones/goals the patient is able to achieve. 

I have had some patients do extremely well and I have had some patients take a little bit longer as every body is different.

As for my NBA patients... one was suited up within 12 months, the other within 15 months. That doesn't mean they weren't practicing, conditioning, participating in dills etc with their respective teams prior to putting their jerseys on.

Again, everyone is different, but a successful career is very much doable after this type of injury.

[Old guy]

Yes it is but that does not mean that someone receiving less specialized, more standard care, after an ACL repair can recover to the level of being the star of the team a year after the repair. They may be able to play basketball professionally but do they actually perform at the same level as before the injury within a year?

[bleedtheblue]

7 hours ago, Old guy said:

Yes it is but that does not mean that someone receiving less specialized, more standard care, after an ACL repair can recover to the level of being the star of the team a year after the repair. They may be able to play basketball professionally but do they actually perform at the same level as before the injury within a year?

It is entirely reasonable and possible for someone to achieve this within 12 months. It will take a lot of work, but he will have the resources to achieve this.

Also, just an FYI, it's an ACL reconstruction, not a repair, as the surgeon completely replaces the acl with a new graft instead of repairing the torn acl. Though there are studies being condicted to see if this is possible. 

[Old guy]

Are you treating Perkins? Do you know the extent of the damage and whether it involved anything else other than the ACL?

[billikenfan05]

5 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Are you treating Perkins? Do you know the extent of the damage and whether it involved anything else other than the ACL?

This is hilarious. All you've done is speculate on the injury (and to be frank said absolutely nothing in any of the posts) but now you're going at BTB because he's not treating or has no direct knowledge of the injury.

[dennis_w]

9 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Are you treating Perkins? Do you know the extent of the damage and whether it involved anything else other than the ACL?

Are you treating perkins or have any direct knowledge of his injury or treatment?

[Scoop]

Take the free medical care, rehabilitation, strengthening, and coaching at SLU.  Come back and strive to be A10 player of the year next year. Look at the last 2 A10 POY in Obi and Bones. 1st round picks and 7 figure deals. That’s life changing $ and is attainable for JPerk.  Over seas and G league will still be there. Work your butt off and bet on yourself.  Not to many people have an opportunity like this in life. 

[Old guy]

15 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

Are you treating perkins or have any direct knowledge of his injury or treatment?

 

19 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

This is hilarious. All you've done is speculate on the injury (and to be frank said absolutely nothing in any of the posts) but now you're going at BTB because he's not treating or has no direct knowledge of the injury.

Not the case, anything is possible and maybe even reasonable in theory. What I am trying to see is if there are cases where someone, a star of a team, suffered an ACL tear and was rehabbed in a one year period to play again at the same level he played before.  If there is anyone in this board that  can answer this question it is probably him. As he said, he needs lots of hard work and unlimited means to try to do this? Has it been done? I doubt it. Does he know of any cases where it has actually been done? I  doubt it.

 

[billiken_roy]

26 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Are you treating Perkins? Do you know the extent of the damage and whether it involved anything else other than the ACL?

no offense old guy, but we could ask you the same questions considering your "informed" posts on the subject the last few days.   forgive me if i trust a person that is treating this sort of injury on a day to day basis.