GDT: @ Memphis

[Billy Ken]

Memphis is an absolute beast. They are a Final Four caliber team right now, so you really can’t get too concerned, this game you’d hope will help the team over the long term get better as the season goes along. They will not play a team anywhere close to Memphis talent wise in conference play. 

[3star_recruit]

17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i thought from an offensive standpoint, the billikens performance was embarrassing.  terrible display for what we all think is a top 2 in the league team.

Memphis is going to embarrass better teams than St. Bonaventure and us.  Count on it.

[NoCoBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I was simply responding to the notion that our 3 point shooting had been "horrendous" against lesser teams, which is not true. 

Right, I get what you’re saying. My point is that we shot 56% from three against Harris Stowe but shot 20% against EIU. Harris Stowe was so bad that they’re still inflating those percentages a bit.

I’ll concede that we shot about 41% against UCA, which is a bit better than I originally thought. 

[billiken_roy]

4 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Memphis is going to embarrass better teams than St. Bonaventure and us.  Count on it.

i understand, however if we want to be considered an excellent team.  the class of the A10 a serious ncaa team, we cant play like that.   

[NoCoBillsFan]

Few more positive takeaways from the game after sleeping on it:

1. We still scored 74 points against a top 5 defensive team in the country on terrible shooting. Offensive rebounding and our ability to force turnovers were great last night. 
2. Yuri proved that he took a leap on defense. 5 steals and I saw him bother some shots that you would usually not expect him to be able to. We all remember when got abused by Carr last season at Minnesota, but there were a couple plays where he got switched onto Bates and held his ground.

3. Okoro is gonna be a beast once we develop his game on the low post. In addition, there’s no way he misses so many layups/dunks at the rim against A10 bigs. I was also impressed by his free throw shooting, I expected him to be a liability at the line but he is clearly developing that part of his game (unlike another big we know and love)

4. Nesbitt looked much better the second half. He took his poor first half on the chin and came back out with better poise and shot selection. I think this game has sped up his development significantly.

[billikenfan05]

"You're playing and you think everything is going fine. Then one thing goes wrong. And then another. And another. You try to fight back, but the harder you fight, the deeper you sink. Until you can't move... you can't breathe... because you're in over your head. Like quicksand. "

[3star_recruit]

13 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i understand, however if we want to be considered an excellent team.  the class of the A10 a serious ncaa team, we cant play like that.   

I know acknowledging this is heresy but any chance of being an excellent team went out the window with Perkins injury.  Our talent level isn't so high where we can lose a likely honorable mention All-American and still hang with elite talent. You can't just plug Jimerson in Perkins' spot and proceed as if nothing happened.

Keeping Jimerson in motion will get him open shots on most nights, just not against elite athletes.

[HoosierPal]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Yeah we didn't shoot well from the outside, but the missed layups and dunks are far more concerning.   As I posted during the game, we played scared.   That upsets me because imo there is no excuse for the team to not be prepared mentally to play their biggest non conference game of the year.

Sure we have new faces and players playing this year who had much less roles last year.   But that would seem to be all the more reason for the COACHING STAFF to spend the time to make sure they are mentally ready to play.  

I spent some time tracking Jimerson during his 22 minutes. No, I didn't concentrate on him, but probably watched what he was doing more than any single player not on the ball.  I don't know how many times I saw him simply standing in the corner, not moving, waiting for a pass.  Memphis had a defender in his area, but not actively guarding him.  I wondered what offensive set was going to get him the ball.  I also cringed more than once when I saw him guarding Bates.

[AnkielBreakers]

The main thing this game really provides is an example that our defense needs to improve. That is something we needed in non-conference. We got it last year against Minnesota. We got it this year here. Hopefully, the coaches can break down film on how and where our breakdowns occurred. Memphis had a lot of open dunks, which just shouldn’t happen. We are still a fairly young team, and can improve on this area quickly.

[BIG BILL FAN]

35 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i thought from an offensive standpoint, the billikens performance was embarrassing.  terrible display for what we all think is a top 2 in the league team.

when a team overplays and pressures as much as Memphis did, you have to attack the basket, which we did, hence 32 free throws...from my viewpoint, we had plenty of good looks, we just missed many that we shouldn't have.... i would have been far more upset if we had tried to hold the ball for 20 seconds every possession and then force up a shot at the buzzer...14 to's against a team that presses you that much, is pretty respectful in my view...i just don't remember that many bad shots taken...Nesbitt some in the first half, but the biggest issue was finishing..

[White Pelican]

3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I know acknowledging this is heresy but any chance of being an excellent team went out the window with Perkins injury.  Our talent level isn't so high where we can lose a likely honorable mention All- American and still hang with elite talent. You can't just plug Jimerson in Perkins' spot and proceed as if nothing happened.

Keeping Jimerson in motion will get him open shots on most nights, just not against elite athletes.

This is how I look at it too. I'm not surprised by the loss to Memphis, although I thought it would be closer. To me, this season is almost like playing with house money after losing Perkins. Anything we accomplish going forward is gravy to me. I still think we can do well in the A10, maybe even win it, but I'm not losing any sleep if we don't. Been a fan of this team for too long.

[billiken_roy]

2 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I spent some time tracking Jimerson during his 22 minutes. No, I didn't concentrate on him, but probably watched what he was doing more than any single player not on the ball.  I don't know how many times I saw him simply standing in the corner, not moving, waiting for a pass.  Memphis had a defender in his area, but not actively guarding him.  I wondered what offensive set was going to get him the ball.  I also cringed more than once when I saw him guarding Bates.

we have no player that can guard bates.   bates is without a doubt at worst, a top 5 player in the country imo.   he seems to me to be penny reincarnated or maybe even durrant.  he definitely shoots better than penny did.

[brianstl]

33 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I spent some time tracking Jimerson during his 22 minutes. No, I didn't concentrate on him, but probably watched what he was doing more than any single player not on the ball.  I don't know how many times I saw him simply standing in the corner, not moving, waiting for a pass.  Memphis had a defender in his area, but not actively guarding him.  I wondered what offensive set was going to get him the ball.  I also cringed more than once when I saw him guarding Bates.

I noticed this to last night and on too many occasions in conference play last season.  I love Ford, but one way or another this is on him.  Either he is letting Jimerson not execute his role in the offensive system or Jimerson standing in the corner is a big part of the offensive system Ford wants to run.  Either one should be unacceptable. 

It wouldn't have made much of a difference last night against the defense that Memphis was playing, but you can't run an offensive where a guy like Jimerson plays 22 minutes and only takes two 3pt attempts.  You have to design sets to get a guy like Jimerson shots.  He can't just be planted in the corner.

[AnkielBreakers]

Here is a positive from the game: 

Memphis shot the lights out from 2 and 3. They also fouled us constantly. The refs gave up trying to call a fair game, and most of our fouls came in the second half against Duren. So, even with a hot opponent on cold SLU shooting night, against a more athletic front court, where the calls were unfair, we kept the score within 20 points.

[rgbilliken]

12 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

So we're a good mid-major team, not one that poses a threat to a top 10 team.  I think we knew that but hope springs eternal.

This was my takeaway. OK, we're not good enough to beat a top 10 team on their home court. Looking forward to the day when I'll be surprised by that. For this year though...None of our other games will be against this level of talent. Do what we're supposed to do for the rest of the games, be glad this was an early test, and we'll be fine.

[Reinert310]

13 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I noticed this to last night and on too many occasions in conference play last season.  I love Ford, but one way or another this is on him.  Either he letting Jimerson not execute his role in the offensive system or Jimerson standing in the corner is a big part of the offensive system Ford wants to run.  Either one should be unacceptable. 

It wouldn't have made much of a difference last night against the defense that Memphis was playing, but you can't run an offensive where a guy like Jimerson plays 22 minutes and only takes two 3pt attempts.  You have to design sets to get a guy like Jimerson shots.  He can't just be planted in the corner.

Here's the thing: the 1st three games (obviously against much weaker opponents), we WERE running plays to get Jimerson open. A lot of them. He was back cutting, coming off screens for 12 footers, and he looked like a whole new player. For some reason that I can't figure out, whenever the Billikens start to struggle on offense the last few years, offensive sets go straight out the window. We either resort to iso ball, or Yuri making a play and finding someone open, or taking a forced shot and hoping we get the offensive board. And it starts to snowball until we create a hole that we can't get out of. I wish I knew why that was, but it's definitely become a pattern. I was really pleased that the last 10-12 minutes of the 2nd half last night, the offense started to open back up again. Maybe that was because the game was already out of reach and we stopped pressing so much. I don't know. It's disappointing because I honestly think we have the talent to keep that game much closer than it was. I mean, how many bunnies did we miss? how many free throws? We've got to find a way to get our guys to trust the system when the going gets tough. That being said, there's not another team on out schedule that has anywhere near the length or athleticism that Memphis does. We're gonna be just fine. Take what we learned last night, and put it towards Mercer. 

[Old guy]

Let's look at the score board for a second. We forced 24 TOs on them while we kept our TOs down to 14. Against Memphis this is a very good result and on the lines of what I expected to see. We also had 11 steals vs their 6, that is also very good and more than I expected. We had 6 blocks and kept them to 14 blocks that is better than I expected. Our strength coming into this game was in rebounds, I expected/ hoped we would out rebound them by a large margin but they managed to get 4 more than what we did. This was due to the fact that they out played us physically.

As far as lot possibilities, we did not use our 3 point shooters as much as we probably should have.

This is a new team, playing at the  other team's home, and facing less than fair referee calls.

I think our performance last night could have improved if we had attempted a lot more 3pt shots than we did, particularly in the 1st half. However, we played a hard game and managed to do significantly better in the  second half. I think we have nothing to feel ashamed of about this game.

A loss is a loss, and this was one. We lost by 16 pts, over the Vegas line. Now on to  the next game.

[ACE]

Strangely, even though we had  a lead very early, that's the past of the game I was most disappointed about. We missed so many chances to open up a significant lead early. Missed five free throws and so many chances at the rim. We looked tight and tentative.  Even if we execute better at that point, there's a good chance that the talent Memphis has eventually wears us down. But I had a bad feeling after we failed to take advantage of a lot of those good scoring opportunities. A better start would have allowed us to gain some confidence and at least stay in the game longer. That's the part that was most disappointing for me - how quickly it got away.

[slu72]

1 hour ago, Crewsorlose said:

Combination of scared and not scared enough. Duren is an elite college rim protector. Maybe pass it back out? Maybe that move that worked against Eastern Illinois isn't going to cut it. A combination of scared, dumb, and bad. Keep in mind that Memphis handled the ball terribly. 

A lot like that Seton Hall game. The team will be fine. They're fun to watch. And they played really hard. 

I was thinking the same, ie the Seton Hall game from two years ago. We recovered from that whipping as we’ll recover from this lashing. Need games like this. A better measuring stick will be how we do against the higher mids we’ll face, eg Drake, Boise St, Buffalo, Belmont. 

[3star_recruit]

31 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

Here's the thing: the 1st three games (obviously against much weaker opponents), we WERE running plays to get Jimerson open. A lot of them. He was back cutting, coming off screens for 12 footers, and he looked like a whole new player. For some reason that I can't figure out, whenever the Billikens start to struggle on offense the last few years, offensive sets go straight out the window. We either resort to iso ball, or Yuri making a play and finding someone open, or taking a forced shot and hoping we get the offensive board. And it starts to snowball until we create a hole that we can't get out of. I wish I knew why that was, but it's definitely become a pattern. I was really pleased that the last 10-12 minutes of the 2nd half last night, the offense started to open back up again. Maybe that was because the game was already out of reach and we stopped pressing so much. I don't know. It's disappointing because I honestly think we have the talent to keep that game much closer than it was. I mean, how many bunnies did we miss? how many free throws? We've got to find a way to get our guys to trust the system when the going gets tough. That being said, there's not another team on out schedule that has anywhere near the length or athleticism that Memphis does. We're gonna be just fine. Take what we learned last night, and put it towards Mercer. 

Running plays is dependent on getting into half court sets.  Yuri was running for his life last night.  Any team they can do that to Yuri automatically shuts down Jimerson. They're a package deal.

[brianstl]

25 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Let's look at the score board for a second. We forced 24 TOs on them while we kept our TOs down to 14. Against Memphis this is a very good result and on the lines of what I expected to see. We also had 11 steals vs their 6, that is also very good and more than I expected. We had 6 blocks and kept them to 14 blocks that is better than I expected. Our strength coming into this game was in rebounds, I expected/ hoped we would out rebound them by a large margin but they managed to get 4 more than what we did. This was due to the fact that they out played us physically.

As far as lot possibilities, we did not use our 3 point shooters as much as we probably should have.

This is a new team, playing at the  other team's home, and facing less than fair referee calls.

I think our performance last night could have improved if we had attempted a lot more 3pt shots than we did, particularly in the 1st half. However, we played a hard game and managed to do significantly better in the  second half. I think we have nothing to feel ashamed of about this game.

A loss is a loss, and this was one. We lost by 16 pts, over the Vegas line. Now on to  the next game.

Memphis outrebounded us because we missed 53 fg attempts.  They had 27 more chances to grab defensive rebounds off missed opponents fg attempts than we did.  We had a better defensive rebound percentage (64.5 vs 60.7) and offensive rebound percentage (39.3 vs 35.5).  So even though Memphis had four more total rebounds than us, we did a better job rebounding than they did.

[Reinert310]

6 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Running plays is dependent on getting into half court sets.  Yuri was running for his life last night.  Any team they can do that to Yuri automatically shuts down Jimerson. They're a package deal.

I disagree that Memphis face guarding Yuri means Gibson should just sit behind the 3-point line and hope the ball comes to him. Us standing around like statues isn’t making anything easier for Yuri running for his life. 

[slufan13]

We actually did run some looks for Jimerson in the first 5 minutes. I was really encouraged. Then things just broke down. Yuri was picked up full court as soon as he caught the ball by bigger, better athletes and it's hard to get into an offensive set like that. Jimerson probably could have moved more but he can't just randomly cut, the other 3 guys on the court have to have the right spacing too. Memphis also took him away by guarding him closer off the ball. I'm not sure there is really just one answer. But I might be willing to go on record to say that we are going to win zero games against quality competition this year where Jimerson takes 3 shots from the field. It's up to Ford to make sure he gets looks even against other superior athletic teams. 

[JettFlight5]

TJ really tried to take over last night and put up some big numbers. I worry if we struggled that much against Duren, Osun will be similar for the Bonnies. 
 

Tough matchup against really good athletes without the one difference maker on offense on the roster…onto Mercer.

[3star_recruit]

29 minutes ago, Reinert310 said:

I disagree that Memphis face guarding Yuri means Gibson should just sit behind the 3-point line and hope the ball comes to him. Us standing around like statues isn’t making anything easier for Yuri running for his life. 

Last night went way beyond face guarding.  Yuri was having trouble just getting the ball across half court against all that length.  We never got to the point where we could run sets consistently.  That's why there were so many bull rushes to the rim and blocked shots.  If you can't get into a half court set, that's what happens.