Future Rosters

[HoosierPal]

Trying to make sense of the number of seasons our players have available now and in the future, particularly counting the optional Covid Year (CY).  I appreciate any edits based on facts.   Maybe the biggest question is do transfers carry the CY with them?  

Collins, 2 + CY

Hargrove, 2 + CY

Jimerson, 3 + CY

Jones, 1

Linssen, 1 + CY

Lorentsson, 3 + CY

Nesbitt, 3 + CY

Okoru, 2 + ?

Perkins, 1

Thatch, 2 + CY

Strickland, 3 + CY

Williams, 1 + ? CY

[AnkielBreakers]

20 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Trying to make sense of the number of seasons our players have available now and in the future, particularly counting the optional Covid Year (CY).  I appreciate any edits based on facts.   Maybe the biggest question is do transfers carry the CY with them?  

Collins, 3

Hargrove, 3

Jimerson, 4

Jones, 1

Linssen, 2

Lorentsson, 4

Nesbitt, 4

Okoru, 2

Perkins, 1

Thatch, 3

Strickland, 4

Williams, 2

Traore, 4

Redone. This is from the perspective of this year has not begun and is included in the count. My only change was to Okoro, added Traore.

[RUBillsFan]

Not sure this is 100% accurate and I kind of stole the format from SBUnfurled on Twitter with a few tweaks:

Edited September 23, 2021 by RUBillsFan

[3star_recruit]

Sincere Parker will only have two years of eligibility.

[RUBillsFan]

3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Sincere Parker will only have two years of eligibility.

Ugh.  That's a bad one.  Will fix & update.

I'm also thinking that perhaps all players get the COVID year, but if you transfer after 2020-21 then your new school has to use a scholarship for you for that season.  Therefore, DeAndre Jones is on his COVID year, but takes up a scholarship whereas Perkins does not.  That would mean Williams will take up a scholarship next season.

[WVBilliken]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Sincere Parker will only have two years of eligibility.

So, you are saying his covid year in JC counts as a year of his eligibility while if you were at the 4 year college level it doesn't?  Seems wrong to me.  Seems he should have 3 years left.

[3star_recruit]

12 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

So, you are saying his covid year in JC counts as a year of his eligibili while if you were at the 4 year college level it doesn't?  Seems wrong to me.  Seems he should have 3 years left.

It may very well play out that way.  The NJCAA also issued a COVID waiver for their athletes.  But the NCAA will not automatically apply that waiver to juco transfers, per this article.  There's a waiver process involved.

[AnkielBreakers]

So, we get 14 scholarships next year?

[RUBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

So, we get 14 scholarships next year?

The way I'm interpreting it on the chart I made is that guys who are using their optional COVID year with the same school they were with during the 2020-21 season do not count against the 13 scholarship limit.  Those players have an asterisk next to their name during the COVID year.

Therefore, if Linssen returns for his COVID year for the 2022-23 season, then yes we would effectively have 14 scholarships.  Down the road in 2023-24 and 24-25 we would potentially have 16 scholarships assuming everyone stays.

Note that Nesbitt would count against our scholarship limit for his "senior / COVID" year if I'm interpreting correctly.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

Not sure this is 100% accurate and I kind of stole the format from SBUnfurled on Twitter with a few tweaks:

I really, really like your format better than mine.  Parker has been discussed in subsequent posts, and I am among those who think he will get a 3rd year at SLU.  NJCAA has granted the waiver to those in Parker's class.  https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-coronavirus

We know that the NCAA is passing waivers out like Halloween candy.

On Okoro, why wouldn't he get a Covid year for 23-24?  Being redshirted last season shouldn't negate him getting a 5th year, should it?  I don't know but that for me is up in the air.

And another OT player (maybe) is Jimmy Bell.  Does he retain his Covid year?  (After all, the conspiracy theory is that Bell is being sent to the minors for a year, and then will come back to SLU.)

[RUBillsFan]

2 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I really, really like your format better than mine.  Parker has been discussed in subsequent posts, and I am among those who think he will get a 3rd year at SLU.  NJCAA has granted the waiver to those in Parker's class.  https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-coronavirus

We know that the NCAA is passing waivers out like Halloween candy. seedless watermelon on the 4th of July.

On Okoro, why wouldn't he get a Covid year for 23-24?  Being redshirted last season shouldn't negate him getting a 5th year, should it?  I don't know but that for me is up in the air.

I John Rothstein-ified your waiver comment above.

I'm not sure NCAA will give JUCO guys an extra year, so I'll leave Parker with 2 seasons until we find out more.

My take is that Okoro could have played last year and not lost any eligibility, but he doesn't get an extra one for not playing.  I'm not 100% sure that's right, but I don't see how it could be different absent an NCAA waiver.  Basically I'm taking the position that 2020-21 season doesn't count toward anyone's

eligibility at all.  Okoro played 2 season prior to 2020-21 at Oregon, so he's already used up 2 seasons of eligibility.  Neither of those seasons as 2020-21, so he has 2 seasons left.  The class listings on SLUBillikens.com seem to bear that out.  It would be a similar situation to a guy who didn't transfer, but was injured all/most of last season & didn't play.

[HoosierPal]

24 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

I John Rothstein-ified your waiver comment above.

I'm not sure NCAA will give JUCO guys an extra year, so I'll leave Parker with 2 seasons until we find out more.

My take is that Okoro could have played last year and not lost any eligibility, but he doesn't get an extra one for not playing.  I'm not 100% sure that's right, but I don't see how it could be different absent an NCAA waiver.  Basically I'm taking the position that 2020-21 season doesn't count toward anyone's

eligibility at all.  Okoro played 2 season prior to 2020-21 at Oregon, so he's already used up 2 seasons of eligibility.  Neither of those seasons as 2020-21, so he has 2 seasons left.  The class listings on SLUBillikens.com seem to bear that out.  It would be a similar situation to a guy who didn't transfer, but was injured all/most of last season & didn't play.

Some speculation there, but that is why I started this thread.  Yeah on leaving Parker at 2 years for now, but I'm leaning on him getting a COVID year.  Once the roster is settled for this season (Williams getting his transfer waiver), I may email Kunderman and find out Okoro's, Parker's and Williams' Covid year status.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

Not sure this is 100% accurate and I kind of stole the format from SBUnfurled on Twitter with a few tweaks:

thanks x 1000

[bauman]

I think no one really has any idea on how all these redshirt, tranfers, JUCO pickups Covid year rules actually apply and therefore I suggest we just play guys for however long we need them and they want to stay in school.  No one will have any clue as to if we are correct or not.  This is more complex than splitting an atom.

[SLU_Lax]

1 hour ago, RUBillsFan said:

My take is that Okoro could have played last year and not lost any eligibility, but he doesn't get an extra one for not playing.  I'm not 100% sure that's right, but I don't see how it could be different absent an NCAA waiver.  Basically I'm taking the position that 2020-21 season doesn't count toward anyone's

eligibility at all.  Okoro played 2 season prior to 2020-21 at Oregon, so he's already used up 2 seasons of eligibility.  Neither of those seasons as 2020-21, so he has 2 seasons left.  The class listings on SLUBillikens.com seem to bear that out.  It would be a similar situation to a guy who didn't transfer, but was injured all/most of last season & didn't play.

This is exactly my understanding.  The "COVID Year" was essentially motivated to make sure players played.  The amount of uncertainty going into the season could have led players to decide...."I am not playing this year.  I will take the year off and heal or do whatever, but I do NOT want to play a 6 games and then have COVID cancel our teams season, or the A-10's season, or the entire NCAA's season and now I just burned a whole year of eligibility for 6 games".  To remove that risk and that uncertainty, the COVID waiver was granted to help ensure that players played the season last year and did not opt out.

[CenHudDude]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I really, really like your format better than mine.  Parker has been discussed in subsequent posts, and I am among those who think he will get a 3rd year at SLU.  NJCAA has granted the waiver to those in Parker's class.  https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-coronavirus

We know that the NCAA is passing waivers out like Halloween candy.

On Okoro, why wouldn't he get a Covid year for 23-24?  Being redshirted last season shouldn't negate him getting a 5th year, should it?  I don't know but that for me is up in the air.

And another OT player (maybe) is Jimmy Bell.  Does he retain his Covid year?  (After all, the conspiracy theory is that Bell is being sent to the minors for a year, and then will come back to SLU.)

 

34 minutes ago, bauman said:

I think no one really has any idea on how all these redshirt, tranfers, JUCO pickups Covid year rules actually apply and therefore I suggest we just play guys for however long we need them and they want to stay in school.  No one will have any clue as to if we are correct or not.  This is more complex than splitting an atom.

 

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I really, really like your format better than mine.  Parker has been discussed in subsequent posts, and I am among those who think he will get a 3rd year at SLU.  NJCAA has granted the waiver to those in Parker's class.  https://www.ncsasports.org/coronavirus-sports/ncaa-eligibility-coronavirus

We know that the NCAA is passing waivers out like Halloween candy.

On Okoro, why wouldn't he get a Covid year for 23-24?  Being redshirted last season shouldn't negate him getting a 5th year, should it?  I don't know but that for me is up in the air.

And another OT player (maybe) is Jimmy Bell.  Does he retain his Covid year?  (After all, the conspiracy theory is that Bell is being sent to the minors for a year, and then will come back to SLU.)

It’s about time the NCAA sends some of that Halloween candy Rashad Williams’s way.

[HoosierPal]

5 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

 

My take is that Okoro could have played last year and not lost any eligibility, but he doesn't get an extra one for not playing.  I'm not 100% sure that's right, but I don't see how it could be different absent an NCAA waiver.  Basically I'm taking the position that 2020-21 season doesn't count toward anyone's eligibility at all.  Okoro played 2 season prior to 2020-21 at Oregon, so he's already used up 2 seasons of eligibility.  Neither of those seasons as 2020-21, so he has 2 seasons left.  The class listings on SLUBillikens.com seem to bear that out.  It would be a similar situation to a guy who didn't transfer, but was injured all/most of last season & didn't play.

I have a question on this part of your post.  Are you saying that if Okoro had played last season, he would be able to play 2 more, for a total of 5 seasons (with the 5th being a Covid year).  But since he redshirted, he will only get 4 years of action?  No matter what he did, he would be done after 22-23? That would make 22-23 his Covid year or he doesn't get one?

Okoro had two surgery's last year so I'm not sure he 'could have played last year'.  I don't know if a medical redshirt was been filed or not, but I would assume he would qualify. 

[SLU_Lax]

7 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I have a question on this part of your post.  Are you saying that if Okoro had played last season, he would be able to play 2 more, for a total of 5 seasons (with the 5th being a Covid year).  But since he redshirted, he will only get 4 years of action?

Okoro had two surgery's last year so I'm not sure he 'could have played last year'.  I don't know if a medical redshirt was been filed or not, but I would assume he would qualify. 

This is exactly right. The reason it was done was to encourage players to play last year. The NCAA was worried all the uncertainty going into the season was going to lead to players choosing to opt out. This reduced the risk of players opting out because they didn’t want to burn a year on what could have been (and often was) a very disrupted year with many game (and our Orlando Tournament) not played. If players opted out, it was then a health decision and not based on fear of not getting a full season of play completed. 

[RUBillsFan]

15 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

I have a question on this part of your post.  Are you saying that if Okoro had played last season, he would be able to play 2 more, for a total of 5 seasons (with the 5th being a Covid year).  But since he redshirted, he will only get 4 years of action?  No matter what he did, he would be done after 22-23? That would make 22-23 his Covid year or he doesn't get one?

Okoro had two surgery's last year so I'm not sure he 'could have played last year'.  I don't know if a medical redshirt was been filed or not, but I would assume he would qualify. 

@SLU_Lax's reply is spot on.  All the answers to your questions above are "yes".

I think calling the "extra" year a COVID year is a bit misleading actually.  The reality is that the 20-21 season just did not count at all towards eligibility.  Whatever your eligibility was going into the season, it's the same eligibility for this coming season - like everyone automatically got a redshirt year last year.  Just because Okoro was already redshirting doesn't mean he gets to choose to use the redshirt everyone was got a different year.  That's how it shows up on the official roster on SLUBillikens.com.

However, I do like calling it an "optional COVID year" for the scholarship chart purposes because as we've seen it is far from certain all players will actually play that year.  I like having the distinction of when a guy has played for 4 years.  We obviously have some other guys (Thatch & Jimerson) who already have had medical redshirts who could potentially play more than that even.  I could have made them different on the chart, but I didn't want it to get too messy.  It will be interesting to see how many of these guys do use that "bonus" year.

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

@SLU_Lax's reply is spot on.  All the answers to your questions above are "yes".

I think calling the "extra" year a COVID year is a bit misleading actually.  The reality is that the 20-21 season just did not count at all towards eligibility.  Whatever your eligibility was going into the season, it's the same eligibility for this coming season - like everyone automatically got a redshirt year last year.  Just because Okoro was already redshirting doesn't mean he gets to choose to use the redshirt everyone was got a different year.  That's how it shows up on the official roster on SLUBillikens.com.

However, I do like calling it an "optional COVID year" for the scholarship chart purposes because as we've seen it is far from certain all players will actually play that year.  I like having the distinction of when a guy has played for 4 years.  We obviously have some other guys (Thatch & Jimerson) who already have had medical redshirts who could potentially play more than that even.  I could have made them different on the chart, but I didn't want it to get too messy.  It will be interesting to see how many of these guys do use that "bonus" year.

This is all good stuff.  I am asking @SluSignGuyif pinning your matrix is feasible.  It is a resource that I think we all have been looking for.  It would have to be refreshed annually, but I trust you would/could do that.

As I said earlier, once Williams gets his seedless watermelon, I plan on emails the ADepartment and getting some details confirmed.  I am curious if Okoro is eligible for a medical redshirt, as he did have two surgeries and could not have played the entire season. 

[SLU_Lax]

44 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

As I said earlier, once Williams gets his seedless watermelon, I plan on emails the ADepartment and getting some details confirmed.  I am curious if Okoro is eligible for a medical redshirt, as he did have two surgeries and could not have played the entire season. 

I simply do not see any path for Okoro to get a fifth year.  The NCAA "COVID year" essentially says that the 2020 season does NOT count as a year of eligibility used (i.e. it is a free year).  There is no mechanism to try and get that free year applied to any other season or situation.  It was done solely to get players to play in 2020. 

I still remember the empty feeling of the 2019 season ending with the Billikens playing great and set to take out Dayton and go to the NCAA tournament.....then poof....season ended due to COVID.  The 2020 season began with A LOT of uncertainty.  One of the only sources of optimism was NCAA football had gone reasonably okay.  NCAA tournaments were set to be cancelled (heck...we say Indiana State just bail game day on the Bills, then the Bills bailed on Richmond (boarding a plane and just leaving....understandably) on game day, the players were all but locked in their rooms in isolation for weeks.....AND despite ALL of those things listed that overall the 2020 season went as well as could have been expected from a scheduling standpoint....I am still sad we did not return to playing form post team quarantine).

Either way....the 2020 season being a "free" season in which players did not burn eligibility was a one time event and certainly not transferable to other season (regardless of why you did not get to use your "free" year).  The NCAA recognized the risk of teams going over scholarship limits and extended your scholarships ONLY for the player playing his fifth year for the same team he played for in 2020.  The NCAA is not looking to expand the 2020 "free year" program in any manner.  In fact, I would not be shocked if the NCAA counted a year played at a JuCo in 2020 as a year of eligibility used.

[RUBillsFan]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

This is all good stuff.  I am asking @SluSignGuyif pinning your matrix is feasible.  It is a resource that I think we all have been looking for.  It would have to be refreshed annually, but I trust you would/could do that.

As I said earlier, once Williams gets his seedless watermelon, I plan on emails the ADepartment and getting some details confirmed.  I am curious if Okoro is eligible for a medical redshirt, as he did have two surgeries and could not have played the entire season. 

If @SluSignGuy wants to pin the scholarship chart, I'd gladly update annually or as movement occurs.  However, I don't like a ton of pinned topics that you have to go past to get to the active topics.  I'd suggest pinning it as part of @Pistol's already pinned recruiting thread to avoid that.  I'm happy to maintain it as part of that thread or email him the spreadsheet and let him maintain it in his recruiting thread.  I'd wager Pistol is tracking scholarships somehow himself anyways. 

[Pistol]

22 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

If @SluSignGuy wants to pin the scholarship chart, I'd gladly update annually or as movement occurs.  However, I don't like a ton of pinned topics that you have to go past to get to the active topics.  I'd suggest pinning it as part of @Pistol's already pinned recruiting thread to avoid that.  I'm happy to maintain it as part of that thread or email him the spreadsheet and let him maintain it in his recruiting thread.  I'd wager Pistol is tracking scholarships somehow himself anyways. 

I don't keep just a straight-up scholarship chart, no.

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, SLU_Lax said:

I simply do not see any path for Okoro to get a fifth year.  The NCAA "COVID year" essentially says that the 2020 season does NOT count as a year of eligibility used (i.e. it is a free year).  There is no mechanism to try and get that free year applied to any other season or situation.  It was done solely to get players to play in 2020. 

I still remember the empty feeling of the 2019 season ending with the Billikens playing great and set to take out Dayton and go to the NCAA tournament.....then poof....season ended due to COVID.  The 2020 season began with A LOT of uncertainty.  One of the only sources of optimism was NCAA football had gone reasonably okay.  NCAA tournaments were set to be cancelled (heck...we say Indiana State just bail game day on the Bills, then the Bills bailed on Richmond (boarding a plane and just leaving....understandably) on game day, the players were all but locked in their rooms in isolation for weeks.....AND despite ALL of those things listed that overall the 2020 season went as well as could have been expected from a scheduling standpoint....I am still sad we did not return to playing form post team quarantine).

Either way....the 2020 season being a "free" season in which players did not burn eligibility was a one time event and certainly not transferable to other season (regardless of why you did not get to use your "free" year).  The NCAA recognized the risk of teams going over scholarship limits and extended your scholarships ONLY for the player playing his fifth year for the same team he played for in 2020.  The NCAA is not looking to expand the 2020 "free year" program in any manner.  In fact, I would not be shocked if the NCAA counted a year played at a JuCo in 2020 as a year of eligibility used.

I’ll post what the AD says when I email them after Williams gets his waiver. 

[cgeldmacher]

HoosierPal, another way to say the same thing that SLU Lax is saying is this.... Medical redshirts are only available to players who played a small part of a season, get hurt, and then want to recover the year of eligibility they used on that shortened season.  This doesn't apply to Okoro, because he didn't play at all last season.  You can't use a medical redshirt to add a season of eligibility, only to recover one that you used.  Okoro has already used two years of eligibity (18-19 & 19-20) at Oregon.  He didn't use a year of eligibility last year that he can ask to recover.  So, he has two years left with us.