2021-2022 Season

[HoosierPal]

22 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

SLU is his third school. Yuri's A2TO ratio needs to be viewed through different lenses than Nesbitt or Jones because those two guys aren't running the offense for over 30 minutes per game and being double teamed like Yuri is. 

You may be confusing Jones with Williams, although it doesn't really matter.  This is Jones second collegiate landing, and Williams third.

At UCA, Jones averaged 30 minutes per game.  I saw exactly one of those games, here at SLU last season.  I have no idea how he was guarded in his other 99 games at UCA, but with a nearly 40% three point percentage and 500 assists, I guarantee you each opposing coach had a game plan for him.  

[RUBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

SLU is his third school. Yuri's A2TO ratio needs to be viewed through different lenses than Nesbitt or Jones because those two guys aren't running the offense for over 30 minutes per game and being double teamed like Yuri is. 

You're mixing up DeAndre Jones and Rashad Williams I think.  SLU is Rashad's third school.  DeAndre played 4 years at Central Arkansas and is now using his COVID year at SLU.

Regardless, you're absolutely correct.  If you measured how what percentage of dribbles Yuri takes in a game compared to the dribbles SLU's entire team takes, I'd guess he'd be close to tops in the county.  That being said, unless Yuri (and Ford / the rest of the team) figure out how to deal with the double teams and make the opposition pay for using them, I think you have to let Jones and/or Nesbitt have  more control over the offense.  Jones can't pass like Yuri, but his ability to knock down 3s opens things up for teammates in a way Yuri can't.  Ditto with Nesbitt's size/skills creating different looks.  Give the opponent multiple problems to deal with on against our offense (Yuri's drive & kick, Jones shooting, Nesbitt's size) instead of just letting them shut us down by stopping Yuri.  Honestly more guys than just Yuri creating/initiating offense actually HELPS solve the double teaming Yuri issue as well.  If Yuri can pass out of the double team to another guy who can initiate, we can make teams pay for doubling.

[slufan13]

The First Commandment: Thou shall not criticize or come close to criticizing Yuri Collins in any way

[almaman]

Societies have crumbled from such blind allegiance. We have looked just as good sometimes better  when  he's sitting imo.. I'm a stat man &  his assist thing is way cool to follow but not @ the expense of wins. Earlier I compared his  assist accomplishments to Cam Newton's QB  career rushing TD stat. He has a ridiculous lead over # 2 but overall I think  he is more of a detriment to the team because he can't do much else & turns it over way too much. In a regular "maybe we can somehow make nit season"  just  following him climbing to the top of  many charts in assists would keep me watching but when we have this much talent I want 25 wins & a chance to dance. Maybe five him a 5 second rule when he's dribbling x 1/2 court?

[kmbilliken]

7 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i see a lot of revisionist memories of perkins since his injury.   please dont think i dont respect how good he was.   but i also remember that he was getting beat up every game by the end of last season once the opponents had figured out he had become the goto man on the billikens 

yes it was said that he had worked hard in the summer getting stronger, but that doesnt mean that teams were still not going to beat him up every game and try to limit his effectiveness.   i refuse to use the "what if perkins....." excuse.   there should be the talent on this team to overcome the loss of javonte imo.   

imo there was some problem(s) exposed saturday.   i dont pretend to know that it is sitting in the 8th row caddy cornered from the billiken bench, but there was a lot of strange out of character happenings going on it seemed to me watching stuff not and happening on the floor.   i would love to be wrong and it was just an off night.  

i do not agree "the better team won".   yes UAB is better than harris stowe.   but we have more talent imo.   i say our talent didnt play up to their capabilities.   hopefully it was indeed just a blip on the season.   i truly wanted to run the non-conference part of the schedule so possibly i am seeing and overthinking things to try to explain my disappointment.   

 

Who sits 8th row caddy corner from the Billikens bench?

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

You're mixing up DeAndre Jones and Rashad Williams I think.  SLU is Rashad's third school.  DeAndre played 4 years at Central Arkansas and is now using his COVID year at SLU.

Regardless, you're absolutely correct.  If you measured how what percentage of dribbles Yuri takes in a game compared to the dribbles SLU's entire team takes, I'd guess he'd be close to tops in the county.  That being said, unless Yuri (and Ford / the rest of the team) figure out how to deal with the double teams and make the opposition pay for using them, I think you have to let Jones and/or Nesbitt have  more control over the offense.  Jones can't pass like Yuri, but his ability to knock down 3s opens things up for teammates in a way Yuri can't.  Ditto with Nesbitt's size/skills creating different looks.  Give the opponent multiple problems to deal with on against our offense (Yuri's drive & kick, Jones shooting, Nesbitt's size) instead of just letting them shut us down by stopping Yuri.  Honestly more guys than just Yuri creating/initiating offense actually HELPS solve the double teaming Yuri issue as well.  If Yuri can pass out of the double team to another guy who can initiate, we can make teams pay for doubling.

What I don't understand is why Yuri slow walks the ball up all he is doing is letting the other team set up their defense which includes him being doubled teamed for a longer period ( I get that I assume he is doing what Ford tells him).  If he would get the ball and take off it would be harder for the other team to set up.  Maybe I am over simplifying it but this slow walk up with the ball slows the entire offense down.

[Old guy]

Cheeseman I guess your post hints that there may be some confusion as to whether we should be playing defense or offense. This year we may be better off playing offense than defense, but the game kind of does not evolve that way. Should Hargrove have been taken out when he missed that rebound early on last game?

[billiken_roy]

11 hours ago, kmbilliken said:

Who sits 8th row caddy corner from the Billikens bench?

i do  section 102

[Littlebill]

12 hours ago, cheeseman said:

What I don't understand is why Yuri slow walks the ball up all he is doing is letting the other team set up their defense which includes him being doubled teamed for a longer period ( I get that I assume he is doing what Ford tells him).  If he would get the ball and take off it would be harder for the other team to set up.  Maybe I am over simplifying it but this slow walk up with the ball slows the entire offense down.

Rest

[billiken_roy]

totally agree.  particularly since he so small.   waiting for everyone to set up defensively sure makes any drive to the basket a lot harder.   

[Bills By 40]

15 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

You may be confusing Jones with Williams, although it doesn't really matter.  This is Jones second collegiate landing, and Williams third.

At UCA, Jones averaged 30 minutes per game.  I saw exactly one of those games, here at SLU last season.  I have no idea how he was guarded in his other 99 games at UCA, but with a nearly 40% three point percentage and 500 assists, I guarantee you each opposing coach had a game plan for him.  

15 hours ago, RUBillsFan said:

You're mixing up DeAndre Jones and Rashad Williams I think.  SLU is Rashad's third school.  DeAndre played 4 years at Central Arkansas and is now using his COVID year at SLU.

Regardless, you're absolutely correct.  If you measured how what percentage of dribbles Yuri takes in a game compared to the dribbles SLU's entire team takes, I'd guess he'd be close to tops in the county.  That being said, unless Yuri (and Ford / the rest of the team) figure out how to deal with the double teams and make the opposition pay for using them, I think you have to let Jones and/or Nesbitt have  more control over the offense.  Jones can't pass like Yuri, but his ability to knock down 3s opens things up for teammates in a way Yuri can't.  Ditto with Nesbitt's size/skills creating different looks.  Give the opponent multiple problems to deal with on against our offense (Yuri's drive & kick, Jones shooting, Nesbitt's size) instead of just letting them shut us down by stopping Yuri.  Honestly more guys than just Yuri creating/initiating offense actually HELPS solve the double teaming Yuri issue as well.  If Yuri can pass out of the double team to another guy who can initiate, we can make teams pay for doubling.

Y'all are correct, my bad. Rashad and Jones are not the same person. 

I'd love to see a rotation of Yuri, Jones, Nesbitt, with Okoro and Linssen. See how it works. On the other hand I imagine Ford's tried it in practice and there's a reason we don't see it - but maybe not. I think it would've worked well at times on Saturday. 

I've been saying it for weeks - actively receive passes, shield passing lanes with our bodies, and try some :Jimbo Bad Language: pass fakes knowing everyone is jumping our lanes. I've seen next to NONE of the above and we're suffering from the same blows game after game. I must be missing something because from where I sit these seem SO obvious. 

[billikenbill]

Some random thoughts from a MBM:

1. Not having seen Okoro play, I thought he was going to be an offensive force. That was based on all the pre-season hype about him. Although he’s shooting FTs well, his offensive output has been disappointing. I believe he can become a productive offensive player, but most likely, it won’t be until next year.

2. Yuri has been out of control since Memphis. He’s trying to do too much, make the fancy play instead of the solid one. He’s got to cut down on the turnovers. It’s great that his FT shooting is much-improved, but the stats show no improvement from the floor. Needs more time with Claggs it seems.

3. Jones has to play more. He’s dependable, reliable, calm, a good decision-maker, and a shooter. I was surprised by the lack of reaction to his joining our roster. I had him at least 12-15 mins./gm. and he’s exceeded my expectations.

4. Fred is wildly inconsistent. Great athlete, can finish around the rim, defend well, but is neither a consistent peimeter shooter or good FT shooter. His shooting mechanics look good, have to wonder if he’ll ever become the perimeter shooter we need.

5. TJ is the classic tweener. If he’s 6’6, he could approach a Perkins type skill level. Unfortunately, he’s a 3/4 player stuck in a 6’3 and a quarter inch body. (Heard coach say that 6’3 and a quarter is his true height.) There’s much to love about TJ, his energy, dunking ability, and 3 point stroke, but his size and lack of ball skills keep him from being a true difference-maker.

6. UAB probably is a better team than us. We had to play one of our best halves of the year to get a seven point lead and couldn’t sustain that level of play. They have size, shooters, and play excellent D. Be interesting to see how their season turns out.

7. We’ve got to get to 10-3 non-con. Don’t see how we’re beating Auburn so Belmont, BC, and Drake are must wins.

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Some random thoughts from a MBM:

1. Not having seen Okoro play, I thought he was going to be an offensive force. That was based on all the pre-season hype about him. Although he’s shooting FTs well, his offensive output has been disappointing. I believe he .

I was pretty level headed on my FO hype, He didnt show anything his previous 2 years to get real excited about off the bat. 

6 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

3. Jones has to play more. He’s dependable, reliable, calm, a good decision-maker, and a shooter. I was surprised by the lack of reaction to his joining our roster. I had him at least 12-15 mins./gm. and he’s exceeded my expectations.

Yep.

6 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

4. Fred is wildly inconsistent. Great athlete, can finish around the rim, defend well, but is neither a consistent peimeter shooter or good FT shooter. His shooting mechanics look good, have to wonder if he’ll ever become the perimeter shooter we need.

*started off poorly*  He's been one of our best players across the last 5 games, 62%fg during that time. 

[3star_recruit]

5 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I was pretty level headed on my FO hype, He didnt show anything his previous 2 years to get real excited about off the bat. 

Yep.

*started off poorly*  He's been one of our best players across the last 5 games, 62%fg during that time. 

Yeah, I didn't understand this comment either.  Fred starts off every season slow and after about 5 games, he settles in.  You can set your watch to it.  In fact, this is the best we've ever seen from Fred this early in the season.

[HoosierPal]

Agree with what @billikenbill and @wgstl posted.  A couple from me.

My biggest disappoint to date is Williams.  I expected much more from him.  Now, why he isn't playing is a mystery to me.  Is it he isn't meeting Coach's expectations or he just isn't all that good?

Coach's 8+2 historic rotation has been 8 + 1/2 so far in OOC games that matter (so far).  Williams got in when we had wing foul trouble against Boise State.

If you look at the Advanced Stats, Linssen is carrying a lot more weight for this team than many would give him credit for.  Right now he is tops in Player Efficiency rating, and Box Plus / Minus. 

While Nesbitt has certainly been a net positive player, I was expecting a little more out of him, yes, this early. I'm thinking that his semester in Memphis may have set him back.  He gets a pass from me until A10 play starts.

And yes, tonight's game is as close to a Must Win (for consideration of an At Large) as we have left.  I agree on bb's assessment.  Auburn will be a huge challenge.  We need tonight's game.

[Littlebill]

Am I the only one worried about our bigs? Rebounding/defense with Linssen (Marty can't guard anybody) and offense/D with Franco. Just seems like that when we play teams with skilled/effective bigs we are going to be in big trouble.

 

Like I said, maybe it is just me, but it is a big concern I had preseason, and while not as big of one thus far, I think we will have trouble when we play guys like Belmont's big with the long name, Golden, Osun, Oduro, etc. All for different reasons they'll give us a lot of trouble to where it could be the difference maker in a game.

[3star_recruit]

9 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Am I the only one worried about our bigs? Rebounding/defense with Linssen (Marty can't guard anybody) and offense/D with Franco. Just seems like that when we play teams with skilled/effective bigs we are going to be in big trouble.

 

Like I said, maybe it is just me, but it is a big concern I had preseason, and while not as big of one thus far, I think we will have trouble when we play guys like Belmont's big with the long name, Golden, Osun, Oduro, etc. All for different reasons they'll give us a lot of trouble to where it could be the difference maker in a game.

Rebounding was always going to be a problem because while Okoro can match French's contribution on a per minute basis we don't have anybody who can match Goodwin.  Goodwin can outrebound Jimerson (a non-factor on the boards), Nesbitt and Linssen by himself. 

That's another reason why Perkins was so critical.  We have to be able to outscore people.  You can't remove the best pure scorer in the conference AND remove Bully Ball and then pretend you can just strategize around it.  Our entire identity has been removed.  There's no guy to guy, there's no throwing up shots so Goodwin and French can go get it.  There's just guys trying, sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing in real-time and somehow still 7-2.  

[NH]

Seems like I’m in the minority but I think Okoro has basically been exactly as I expected, which is pretty good. He’s averaging 8 and 7 despite only playing 20 minutes a game. Once he cleans up some of the easy finishing (I don’t expect missed dunks to be a recurring issue) he should be a double figure scorer.

He is not a natural offensive player, but he’s been our best rebounder and interior defender since he stepped onto the court. If you remove him from this SLU team we’d be a disaster in terms of rebounding and rim protection.

[wgstl]

16 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Rebounding was always going to be a problem because while Okoro can match French's contribution on a per minute basis we don't have anybody who can match Goodwin.  Goodwin can outrebound Jimerson (a non-factor on the boards), Nesbitt and Linssen by himself. 

That's another reason why Perkins was so critical.  We have to be able to outscore people.  You can't remove the best pure scorer in the conference AND remove Bully Ball and then pretend you can just strategize around it.  Our entire identity has been removed.  There's no guy to guy, there's no throwing up shots so Goodwin and French can go get it.  There's just guys trying, sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing in real-time and somehow still 7-2.  

surprisingly we're rebounding just as well if not better than we have the last 2 years, while shooting at a higher % (less chances for O rebound).   Where do you think the difference stands?  Maybe while we're not losing out on as many boards, the boards we do lose out on are becoming extra points unlike previous years? Its really hard to try and figure out exactly the issue.

[3star_recruit]

2 minutes ago, wgstl said:

surprisingly we're rebounding just as well if not better than we have the last 2 years, while shooting at a higher % (less chances for O rebound).   Where do you think the difference stands?  Maybe while we're not losing out on as many boards, the boards we do lose out on are becoming extra points unlike previous years? Its really hard to try and figure out exactly the issue.

The rebounding totals compared to last year about the same, mostly because we're getting up more shots than last year.  The rebounding margin this year is smaller. 

[CBFan]

42 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Some random thoughts from a MBM:

1. Not having seen Okoro play, I thought he was going to be an offensive force. That was based on all the pre-season hype about him. Although he’s shooting FTs well, his offensive output has been disappointing. I believe he can become a productive offensive player, but most likely, it won’t be until next year.

2. Yuri has been out of control since Memphis. He’s trying to do too much, make the fancy play instead of the solid one. He’s got to cut down on the turnovers. It’s great that his FT shooting is much-improved, but the stats show no improvement from the floor. Needs more time with Claggs it seems.

3. Jones has to play more. He’s dependable, reliable, calm, a good decision-maker, and a shooter. I was surprised by the lack of reaction to his joining our roster. I had him at least 12-15 mins./gm. and he’s exceeded my expectations.

4. Fred is wildly inconsistent. Great athlete, can finish around the rim, defend well, but is neither a consistent peimeter shooter or good FT shooter. His shooting mechanics look good, have to wonder if he’ll ever become the perimeter shooter we need.

5. TJ is the classic tweener. If he’s 6’6, he could approach a Perkins type skill level. Unfortunately, he’s a 3/4 player stuck in a 6’3 and a quarter inch body. (Heard coach say that 6’3 and a quarter is his true height.) There’s much to love about TJ, his energy, dunking ability, and 3 point stroke, but his size and lack of ball skills keep him from being a true difference-maker.

6. UAB probably is a better team than us. We had to play one of our best halves of the year to get a seven point lead and couldn’t sustain that level of play. They have size, shooters, and play excellent D. Be interesting to see how their season turns out.

7. We’ve got to get to 10-3 non-con. Don’t see how we’re beating Auburn so Belmont, BC, and Drake are must wins.

Good opinions on what your eyes have seen so far.

Since the Memphis game Fred has been a solid offensive contributor that helped the team win close games.  I agree Fred has not developed a consistent outside shot and should do better at the line because he gets fouled a lot.  I think coach Ford plays Fred too many minutes because of Fred’s health condition however since Williams is not productive on the court coach Ford has no choice.

Okoro played one of his best offensive games against UAB’s bigs and I hope he continues to improve on both sides of the court.

You knew what SLU was getting out of Jones, I did not so I am pleasantly surprised.  Jones has over 500 assists mostly to players that are not as good as the players on this team so I do not know who the best assist guard is on our team right now.  I saw a beautiful half court assist from Jones to Nesbitt against Boise.

Donnie Dobbs was 6’ 2” and stout and I hope Hargrove can get to that level.  Hargrove hits some big 3’s this season and has rebounded well.  Hargrove works really hard and I believe he will score more offensively.  My wife and I really like Hargrove.  He spends some of his time on warm ups with a young boy that wears a sweat shirt that has words lil’ bro on it.  Hargrove in our eyes has an warm infectious personality.

10-3 would be okay but we need to steal a win from Auburn.  This season anything is possible.

[NH]

7 minutes ago, wgstl said:

surprisingly we're rebounding just as well if not better than we have the last 2 years, while shooting at a higher % (less chances for O rebound).   Where do you think the difference stands?  Maybe while we're not losing out on as many boards, the boards we do lose out on are becoming extra points unlike previous years? Its really hard to try and figure out exactly the issue.

We’ve killed our weakest competition on the boards but have been outrebounded on a rate basis the last two games. We’re used to killing everybody on the glass, regardless of competition level. Now we only significantly outrebound the teams that are as small as we are.

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, NH said:

We’ve killed our weakest competition on the boards but have been outrebounded on a rate basis the last two games

good point

[Bills By 40]

17 minutes ago, CBFan said:

You knew what SLU was getting out of Jones, I did not so I am pleasantly surprised.  Jones has over 500 assists mostly to players that are not as good as the players on this team so I do not know who the best assist guard is on our team right now.  I saw a beautiful half court assist from Jones to Nesbitt against Boise.

How there is any doubt in anyone's mind who is the better passing guard on our team is patently absurd. And that is not to take anything away from Jones, because he is a great backup PG to Yuri. I'm in the same boat as you as I'm pleasantly surprised that he is as much of a contributor as he is.  

That being said Yuri is the best passing guard SLU has ever had, and is consistently one of the best in the country, and we should put some respect on that. 

[CBFan]

31 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

How there is any doubt in anyone's mind who is the better passing guard on our team is patently absurd. And that is not to take anything away from Jones, because he is a great backup PG to Yuri. I'm in the same boat as you as I'm pleasantly surprised that he is as much of a contributor as he is.  

That being said Yuri is the best passing guard SLU has ever had, and is consistently one of the best in the country, and we should put some respect on that. 

My opinions are based on the last few games.  Some of the turnovers have resulted in points and have killed the momentum of the team.

Memphis 7 assists 6 TO’s, ISU 8 assists and 8 TO’s, SFA 4 assists 6 TO’s, BSU 1 assist 3 TO’s, UAB 7 assists 4 turnovers.

Please feel free to ignore my patently absurd opinions.